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Bigger And Worse Than The Rest
July 16th 2000, 09:58 CEST by andy Thanks to the blitz mentality -- no matter how bad something is, if it happens often enough you eventually stop noticing -- patches and so-called "point releases" haven't been getting much coverage here lately. But the Daikatana v1.1 patch deserves a special mention... Not having played the game myself, I can only go on what other people have said. So if the general concensus from gamers and critics is correct, and ION Storm's flagship release is a clumsy, annoying mess of a game, then this patch at least keeps up with tradition. First, some stats to put things in perspective: The final Quake 2 point release, including the full Capture The Flag, is 13.2Mb. The latest Unreal Tournament patch, including the rewritten level editor, plus the "bonus pack" with eleven new levels, adds up to 19.9Mb. The latest Half-Life upgrade, including the full Team Fortress Classic, is 37.5Mb. So that's a rough guide for how much 'extra' stuff you should get for your download. The Daikatana patch weighs in at a staggering 44.3Mb. That's for bug fixes and virtually NO new content. ION Storm even warns that "it could take up to half an hour to apply the patch", and there is the now-expected advice that after installing, "your savegames will NOT work". There are over 30 bug fixes and "new features", and almost every one of them can safely be classed as another victory for sloppy quality control, ie: Sidekick spawning has been fixed, solving a problem that meant "you couldn't finish the game". Demo recording and playback now "works", which I assume means it didn't before. And it's not often that a patch needs to say: "All map bugs have been fixed." Other fixes include deathmatch crashes, a texture problem on Voodoo cards, and these two classics: "Fixed memory leaks", and "You cannot save on moving platforms anymore (which caused a bug)". Remember that Quake 2 had a problem with saving on moving platforms? That bug was fixed by... fixing it. The Daikatana solution is pathetic by comparison -- a lazy workaround, like those web sites that block Netscape because they only work in MSIE. (But hey, I've done that myself many years ago, so maybe I should get down off my high horse?) To be fair, there are several good things about the patch, the most obvious ones being that you can now save whenever you want (apart from on moving platforms, of course), and there's a new deathmatch mode called "Instagib". But when you look at the overall package, you're still downloading over 40Mb to fix problems that could and should have been addressed before the game was released. Daikatana doesn't exactly have the excuse of being rushed, does it? Finally, for anyone who thinks a 40Mb+ patch with a half-hour install time is pushing things a bit, the boys at ION Storm put forward this recommendation: "You can view the readme while the patch is installing." Either they missed the sarcastic smiley off the end of that, or they were being serious... |
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Topic: Bigger And Worse Than The Rest
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Jason Hall: "LithTech does not support OpenGL on the PC. There is no need for it." Hey, that sounds like DirectEngine. Oh, wait, woops. Yeah, who in the world would want to work with a clean, structured set of relatively open APIs that are available for use on numerous platforms as opposed to a mish-mosh of half-baked, proprietary functions like those in DirectX. :) D3DIM could be useful, I guess. DirectX, I'll admit, is slowly getting better, and it's turning into quite the game developer's toolkit. I've been using both DirectX and OpenGL for a bit now; I'll use DirectX for input and sound and whatnot, but give me OGL for the pixel work. Maybe, and just maybe here, I'm hankering for a day when the proprietary DX APIs are used on the minority of the installed OS base, and I can happily code away with OpenGL knowing that my code is humming happily on all machines. That "Open" in OpenGL just makes me think that each individual pixel gets a little more longevity. -aaron |
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Ok... I've never really spoken out on the OpenGL issue, because quite frankly I don't find it as interesting as some people find it. That being said, let me address some stuff (disclaimer - this is not a comprehensive discussion I'm trying to give): Monolith / LithTech have been working with D3D since D3D began (back when MS purchased RenderMorphics and made the beginnings of D3D). LithTech's renderer for the PC (running Windows) has been custom designed to use D3D as effectively as possible - and it has been doing so for a long time. Here is the bottom line on OpenGL versus Direct 3D as I see it... OpenGL has historically been MUCH easier than D3D to program for (for Windows). So programmers prefer it. That's it. When D3D came out it was a HUGE pain in the ass to just accomplish basic things. Most game companies that tried to use D3D didn't really do all the *little special things* that D3D wants you to do in order for it to run well - Why? - Well, because it is a pain in the ass. Not many people liked it. This is where the outcry to support OpenGL came from. Please understand OpenGL is just another API for programmers to use to access your 3D card. Same with D3D. Those API's don't make your 3D any more powerful than it was when it came right out of the box. Actually, those API's can do the opposite, sometimes limiting severely what functionality a programmer can get to! OpenGL is a wonderful standard giving you things like portability - but LithTech Inc. custom designs and programs a new renderer and sounds system (at minimum) for each platform it supports. Valeyard, your other perceptions of OpenGL like: -Typically better performance -Typically better video quality ...are not rooted in OpenGL being a better API, but rather in past D3D games being implemented poorly - which is easy to do, given how much more work has to go into making a good D3D renderer. So, here is what I will say about D3D: If you take the time, spend the money, and put in the required effort while making your D3D based renderer for a PC (Windows based), you will tend to get BETTER PEFFORMANCE, BETTER COMPATIBILITY, BETTER SUPPORT FROM MICROSOFT, AND MORE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO RUN YOUR GAME WITHOUT VIDEO DRIVER PROBELMS, than if you used OpenGL. LithTech for PC (Windows) was built with D3D in mind. There is no GLIDE support, there is no OpenGL support. For LithTech on the PC (Windows) there is no need for them. We are willing to do all the extra work required that it takes to do a proper D3D based renderer to ensure max compatibility and ultra speed. We can accomplish everything that needs to get accomplished with D3D. OpenGL for PC (Windows) offers us no worthwhile advantages except for some easier implementation at a cost of narrowing down our supported user base. We don't want to narrow our supported user base just to make things easier for us, or to *just* use some card specific feature that no other card has. I'm sure that some of you have seen what happens when you write an engine just for a card like 3DFX/Glide and then suddenly decide to change it D3D. It is too late to do that, you get screwed. D3D handles things very differently from Glide, so much so that the fundamental nature of many parts of the engine needs to be heavily modified. Even still, you never can get it to work quite right unless you started from the beginning with D3D in mind. (Like Monolith was forced to do - when we were Direct Engine)... Valeyard - if we had an OpenGL renderer for the PC (Windows) it would have done absolutely nothing to change your KISS experience. Everything would have looked the same, it may have even been slower, and certainly a whole slew of video cards would most likely not be supported until they "updated their OpenGL Drivers." Bleh... Who needs that? Again, this is not trying to be a damning of OpenGL, there is nothing inherently wrong with it. I'm just saying the LithTech doesn't need to support it for the PC (Windows) because we are absolute experts at maximizing the use of D3D (which has all the features our licensees need - especially DX8!!) Jason Hall "King of the MONSTARS!!!" |
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Um .. didnt Microsoft Fund the development of Lith-tech so the lack of GL support was 'politically' orientated in teh first instance? not saying it still is, just that it was (or may have been) Ds <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Valeyard: " [snip] Jason and his team have done it "right". " So Jason is coding now? Cool! :) Might wanna give credit to the code monkeys on that one. Joker: "TONS of exclusive info, you won't regret visiting!" WOW! SUPER! Can I also find FRESH, NEW, IMPROVED, NOW IN NEW E-Z SEAL PACKAGING along with that EXCLUSIVE preview info? :) Yeah, I just flipped the troll switch on. I hate the word "exclusive". -aaron |
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<quote>By the by, Jason - you say that 'Lith doesn't support OpenGL on the PC (your words ;) - that presumably means that it is supported on other platforms ... </quote> And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why 3DRealms never says ANYTHING about their games. A single offhand comment gets taken far too seriously and twisted and warped.. and soon becomes a promise and soon causes andy to write an article talking about being defrauded. oh, and as for the 65k bug number, that's another example of it. An innocuous comment turns into a mantra. |
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Jace: "........WITHOUT VIDEO DRIVER PROBELMS..." been reading too much of Jeff K's stuff I see :) ajb: what exactly is your problem? Joker. |
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Darkseid - No, it's just that Microsoft felt strongly that they D3D would become the API standard for Windows and so we planned our technology around that assumption of success. Fortunately, it was the correct descision, and LithTech is one of the few, if not the only, engine of its magnitude to have a super-slick custom hi-end d3d renderer implementation. Our licensees are very pleased with it, because their marketing people can project greater sales numbers based on system compatibility. Jason Hall "King of the MONSTARS!!!" |
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Hey Jason Hall... in addition to whatever godawful protein enhanced weight gainer you had for lunch did you also enjoy fagot on stick? |
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didn't get the reference? good, that means you aren't a fagot jeffk fan liek mee! <a href="http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/computarfunnys/comic-5.htm">Jeffk Ruelz</a> |
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Oh boy. Now I'm going to have to purchase a plane ticket to the other coast and kick Jason Hall's ass. I've been wanting to do this since he purchased that superbike I can't afford. The one I cry thinking about. I covered my Huffy in tinfoil, put on my favorite Superman cape and beanie and pedaled around the neighborhood, but it just ain't the same. While I can't disagree with anything you've said, Jason, I do have hope that you're not missing the point of supporting a standard like OpenGL versus Direct3D. I know that the Lithtech (DirectEngine) has always been based on DX code, and that with the current state of OpenGL drivers ("getting better, though!" is the OpenGL rallying cry) D3D is a very pragmatic business decision. Please don't forget, though, that tiny Texas developer id software, who built some mildly popular games with engines that use OpenGL for pixel work. I'm also of the opinion that most hardware manufactuers probably stick more driver writers on the DX side of things because of some gentle MS nudging. Someone pass Jason a slice of OpenGL love! Honestly, though, from the comments I've been reading, you've all built a solid renderer utilising D3D. Kind of like brushing your teeth with barbed wire, I hear. :) But, as the new Final Ruler on Everything around here (even MONSTARS!), I'll have to download this KISS demo and judge for myself whether D3D has indeed made the big time. My ruling will follow in the morning. And speaking of the KISS demo, this will be the first time I've downloaded a 75 MB demo over a 56K modem to simply check out the renderer. I'm sure the game is great, though, just like anything else ever based off the KISS license. Someone told me it lands right in between a Gene Simmons lunch box and an Ace Frehley action figure, putting it at "sort of shit" on the KISS "Licensed Product Evaluation Scale" of "Shit" (best) to "Really Shit" (worst). But if it reaches the caliber of that early-80's KISS TV movie, then we've got a Game of the Year canidate on our hands. Darkseid: "so the lack of GL support was 'politically' orientated in teh first instance?" Yes. I'll also have you take a look at my soon to be released essay on how DirectX, and specifically it's often ill-tempered leader Direct3D, are the APIs behind the Kennedy assasination. These same APIs are now purchasing and stockpiling nuclear weapons from China to be used in the destruction of competing 3D APIs. By the way, who did the OpenGL party choose as their canidate to run for US president this year? "Politically" motivated? Probably more like "financially". Of course MS is going to support their own set of APIs. And yeah, I did have to be such a wise-ass about it. :) -aaron |
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Joker: "ajb: what exactly is your problem?" It's humor, man. Dry humor, but humor. Actually, dry, unfunny humor, making it unwitty sarcasm at best. Sorry for the confusion, no harm was meant. My poor attempt at humor has made me yet another enemy. Basically, I just get a kick out of the word "exclusive". Jason: "...super-slick custom hi-end d3d renderer implementation..." Do you folks license a version without the "super-slick"? And can I mix and match the "hi-end" with the "custom"? :) -aaron |
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A KISS game! Hurmph. I remember when Team Evolve was discussing the possibilites of doing a KISS game way before Third Law even existed. We voted against it thinking there was no way to make a good game based on the KISS license, even with the comic book material. When I heard that Mike Wilson had gotten the boys at Third Law to do it, I immediately emailed him telling him that a good game couldn't be made off that license, then to top it off they choose the LithTech engine (Which at the time was getting bashed for Shogo and Blood2). Things were not looking like it was going to be a good game, plus it seems like the schedule was rushed, probably had to get the game made before one of the KISS dudes died from old age. Mike told me the game would kick ass, but that's his job, he's a marketer, a hype master, a very good one indeed, but I still said it couldn't be done. I told him to prove me wrong. Sure it may have a kickass Lithtech D3D 2.0 engine, sure the sounds might be fantastic, yeah the levels are outdoors/indoors, but what's lacking in most games I play now is GAMEPLAY. Thank God the boys at Raven remembered that when they made ST: Elite Force, plus to top it off, Raven is the first company since Interplay to take the SUCK out of Star Trek games. Well, now the day comes. I'm downloading the demo right now. I hope it's good because I am a KISS fan, but I'm not a fan of that stupid comic book series. I found it flakey and silly. I've heard you get to play as each of the characters in the full game. I wonder if you get to spit blood as Gene Simmons (The Demon), Use your ESP powers as Ace Frehley(The Spaceman/Celetial), Do whatever Stars do as Paul Stanley(The Starman), or pee on a tree to mark your territory as Peter Chris(The Catman).. I'll have to wait until the download is done. I'll post my review at Hulka.com after playing the demo. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<QUOTE> Right on, and I expect Anachronox to be of the same high quality caliber as Deus Ex is. Just stay away from those Dallas offices and we'll be fine. </QUOTE> Ummm, Dethstryk, talk about irony. Anachronox _is_being_developed at the Dallas offices. Now, considering that fact, your statement is a bit of a contraction, hmmmm? |
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<QUOTE> Right on, and I expect Anachronox to be of the same high quality caliber as Deus Ex is. Just stay away from those Dallas offices and we'll be fine. </QUOTE> Ummm, Dethstryk, talk about irony. Anachronox _is_being_developed at the Dallas offices. Now, considering that fact, your statement is a bit of a contraction, hmmmm? |
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<b>rainman wrote in post #202:</b> <quote>Ummm, Dethstryk, talk about irony. Anachronox _is_being_developed at the Dallas offices. Now, considering that fact, your statement is a bit of a contraction, hmmmm? </quote> So it is. Just keep Romero's hands away from the development team and I'll be happy. I'm glad the ol' Romero didn't want to "help" out with Deus Ex after they were done with Daikatana. -- Dethstryk Damage Gaming |
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<B>Baytor</B> - Nah, I don't really care for Lo Wang any more than I did for Duke. I just think that the weapons and level design in Shadow Warrior were more interesting. I barely played either game though, so I couldn't really say for sure. Personally, the only build engine game I can think of that I had more than just "apathy bordering on low level dislike" for is Blood. I read a lot of Stephen King though (my secret shame, sort of), and I watch a lot of horror movies, so I guess that's not surprising. <B>Valeyard</B> - We have the full version of Psycho Circus at GameSpy, and the key-sticking thing happens to me constantly, too. Overall, the game impresses me on some levels, and dissapoints on others. It's pretty much a middle-of-the-road FPS. Good for some fun, but not anything that's likely to gain the prestige of Half-Life. <B>Everyone Else</B> - My god, another D3D vs. OpenGL discussion? Let the weeping begin. -shaithis |
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Jason Hall: Thanks for the reply, I "get it". :) What I was actually referring to was supporting D3D <b>and</b> OpenGL...which would widen the user base and give people an option. If that's not feasible, that's fine. -Valeyard<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Waiting for the predictable Andy "worrying" comment. Desiato |
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<b>#193</b> "ajb" wrote... <QUOTE>So Jason is coding now? Cool! :) Might wanna give credit to the code monkeys on that one. </QUOTE> I'd love to, but I don't know the names...they're not quite so public...that's why I said "and his team". -Valeyard<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Jason Hall (#166): <i>LithTech does not support OpenGL on the PC. There is no need for it.</i> uh, well, i guess there goes the Linux and Mac ports. :) unless, of course, they take the time to write a whole new graphics renderer. then again, i gotta admit i don't know shit about lithtech, so have no idea how hard or easy this might be. <i>disclaimer: my opinion, not my employer's. Your Ad Here For Pennies A Month! Call Now!</i><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Crash read this line from jason's responce on that. <b>#191</b> "Jason Hall" wrote... <QUOTE>OpenGL is a wonderful standard giving you things like portability - but LithTech Inc. custom designs and programs a new renderer and sounds system (at minimum) for each platform it supports. </QUOTE> I'm taking that as meaning LithTech will be re writing the engine to use what ever API is the strongest on any given platform that is supported, in windows that happens to be D3D since nearly every graphics card out there has Microsoft certified D3D drivers (so they are going to work no matter what), on MAC and Linux that would be OpenGL (where the drivers have to be better then the windows version since it's the only thing around). I for one thing it's a great idea, play to the most stupported API on any given platform, and make it work great.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<quote> 1. I'm sure lots of people can figure out who you're talking about, which makes me think you don't really want to hide which company it is. </quote> Good for them. I'm sure if they did a bit more digging around they can find out the relevant staff which left and started up their own studio too. I'm not hiding it because I don't want them to find out, I'm hiding it to save my own ass. The moment I mention the name, the same moment the CEO starts an internal witch hunt and cuts off all internet and email access. <quote> 2. All the way through your post you refer to "we" and "our", but in the one paragraph I've quoted you refer to "they". I think that's a slip-up. (Where you say "their", that makes sense, but later on, "they" doesn't.) </quote> And? When I wrote the sentence, referring to us as "their" made sense. In fact, I wasn't even considering what would "strengthen the legibility of my story", since I didn't think I'd have to get down to the detail of picking the right sentence structure! I can easially give you proof - an email, for example. But after the whole 3DR thing, how do I know that you aren't just going to post it, thereby revealing the company as well as my identity? I know this seems like a lame cop-out, but after seeing what happened with the 3DR stuff, I simply can't trust Andy with personal information. <quote> So basically, whoever you are, I don't believe you work for this company. I think you're either someone who just wants to cause trouble, or more likely, you work for (or own?) a rival company and you're trying to plant some rumours. In fact, I've got a feeling that I know who you are, although I can't figure out your motive for posting this message. (But that's probably because I don't know which company you're talking about.) </quote> Hahahahah! I can't believe how you can try and dredge out a huge conspiracy out of the smallest of things! Are you seriously saying that because I chose one grammatical style over the other unconsciously that I am a competing company trying to badmouth this company? <quote> It's impossible for a company to lose 150% of its original staff. </quote> What I mean is we lost virtually our entire team, rehired, and then lost half of the rehired people. I guess I shouldn't have put original there. <quote> Or maybe Mr. Anonymous could grow a set of balls and identify himself. Just a thought... </quote> Okay, say hypothetically I identify myself. The moment I do that, I get sued by the CEO, I lose my job, and end up on the street because I can't pay my mortgage. Come September, I'll gladly de-identify myself and talk about it. I'll be working somewhere else, and the majority of staff here would have left, thereby meaning I can't get slapped with a lawsuit since there will be a lot of people who could have written the said article. To stop what I think is going to come from me saying this, I put in 110% of my time and effort into my job, simply because I love it. The fact that I (and many others here) are pissed off **doesn't** mean we sit around and grab money for no work. We work to the best of our abilities, even if we would do anything to get out of here. |
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I like what Jason had to say about the D3D vs OpenGL thing. What he said makes perfect sense to me. I'd rather have an engine that really, really shined on it's supported API than one that was just 'ok' on several all at once. If I understand, he's not saying there's anything at all wrong with OpenGL, but just happens to have made a business decision some time ago that seemed like the right thing to do then, and still today seems like a decent decision. If another platform would benifit from using another API, then they make the engine for that platform use it. How can that be so bad? I can hear people gassing up the flamethrower muttering 'choice Barn, it's all about choice', but hang on. If the game runs like a champ using D3D, why do I need a choice? The only valid argument would be that if all dev's. were to make the choice to support OpenGL, then we could slip a long hard one into 'the man' and make him squeal, but when it comes to gamming, that's not my focus. The only part that confused me is when he said supporting OpenGL would limit there options for platform support. That sounds contradictory as OpenGL is certainly supported on a hell of a lot more platforms than D3D is. But I guess in this world, where the platform that does support D3D is riding probably 95% marketshare in the target market, striving for crossplatform development is kind of a pointless waste of money. In the PC world, there is only one platform that matters. It might not be pretty, but I'm just calling it as I see it. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Valeyard wrote - "What I was actually referring to was supporting D3D and OpenGL...which would widen the user base and give people an option. If that's not feasible, that's fine." As far as I know every 3D card that the mass consumer market uses to play games on (PC running WINDOWS) has a Direct 3D driver. Supporting OpenGL with LithTech for PC (Windows)would not widen the user base,simply because it would be a redundant option. Jason Hall "King of the MONSTARS!!!" |
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None-1a (#210): <i>I'm taking that as meaning LithTech will be re writing the engine to use what ever API is the strongest on any given platform that is supported</i> yep, and i would expect no less. however, that's a generality, and i tend to look on generalities with suspicion. or, to put it another way: just because it's been "custom design[ed] and program[med]" doesn't mean it's going to be used. :) which, basically, would be the question, but then Jason probably isn't the person to ask. haven't heard anything about a mac or linux port in any case, and looking at the site shows a PC bent. can't really take 'em to task for it, though; we gotta remember this is Third Law's first effort. (not that i'm cuttin 'em any slack on the quality of the game, but i can understand why it wouldn't necessarily be ported, at least for a simultaneous release.) <i>#include disclaimer.h</i><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<quote>Come September, I'll gladly de-identify myself and talk about it. I'll be working somewhere else, and the majority of staff here would have left, thereby meaning I can't get slapped with a lawsuit since there will be a lot of people who could have written the said article. </quote> What does "de-identify" mean? |
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Just to add more, I read a book last year or so called 'Renegades of the Empire'. There are several references to monolith in there regarding development efforts with a pile of experimental Microsoft technologies. They were obviously working quite closly together at that point. Since then, I've always wondered what exactly the relationship Monolith and MS have? It would appear that monolith was an early supporter of Microsoft's attempts to rule the gamming world, involved since the beginning of DirectX, and WildTangent and all that stuff, so it's no suprise that monolith just might have the inside line when it comes to getting D3D to 'be all it can be'. I'm curious if you wouldn't mind Jason, do you guys still have the same relationship with MS now as it appears you had back then? Pretty decent read too if your looking for some dirt on where DirectX came from. I don't know if it's all true or not, but a decent read nonethless.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#215</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE> What does "de-identify" mean? </QUOTE> Come on, he said it was non-US company. English probably isn't his first language. I'm sure you know what he meant.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Jace - I see the point. BarneyQue summed it up nicely...I don't need a choice if D3D runs great. From what I saw today, it does. Congratulate your team, it's the best D3D renderer I've seen. -Valeyard<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#217</b> "Talion" wrote... <QUOTE> <B>#215</B> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <quote> What does "de-identify" mean? </quote> Come on, he said it was non-US company. English probably isn't his first language. I'm sure you know what he meant.</QUOTE> Easy now.. I get the feeling Warren's not into the whole anonymous company bashing thing. If you want to take a few swings at your employer, I can only assume he want's you to grow a set, and go right to it with your name on the top. Of course as Mr.Anon noted, doing so would most definatly, and rightly so, put your ass on the unemployment line.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#211</b>, Mr Anonymous: <QUOTE> I know this seems like a lame cop-out, but after seeing what happened with the 3DR stuff, I simply can't trust Andy with personal information. </QUOTE> And there's the confirmation. ;-) |
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<b>#205</b> "shaithis" wrote... <QUOTE> <B>Baytor</B> - Personally, the only build engine game I can think of that I had more than just "apathy bordering on low level dislike" for is Blood. I read a lot of Stephen King though (my secret shame, sort of), and I watch a lot of horror movies, so I guess that's not surprising. </quote> God, how I love'd that game. Irritates me to no end that I can't get the sound to work correctly on my new system (damn, non Sound Blaster sound card). I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#221</b> "Baytor" wrote... <QUOTE>God, how I love'd that game. Irritates me to no end that I can't get the sound to work correctly on my new system (damn, non Sound Blaster sound card). </QUOTE> Your not the only one irritated by that. I've got the exact same problem with every single build based game I've tried, this is despite the fact that my PCI Fortismo as ran every single older game I've thrown at it with perfect legicy support. I have manged strangly enough to get most build games to run with sound on other cards that wouldn't run even doom with sound support, all ISA based. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#216</b> "BarneyQue" wrote... <QUOTE>I'm curious if you wouldn't mind Jason, do you guys still have the same relationship with MS now as it appears you had back then? </QUOTE> Fool, how dare you reveal the evil conspiracy of M$ and Monolith? They have killed men for saying less than you have. Obviously, MS knew it was only a matter of time before the Justice Department came after them, and split Monolith off as their hapless lackies. Oh, no. Now, I've said too much. I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#220</b> "Andy" wrote... <QUOTE>And there's the confirmation. ;-) </QUOTE> Come on, like anyone here would pretend to be a non-American game developer just to make you look bad. Oh, wait, maybe we would :) I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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BarneyQue : Yeah, that's exactly it. I find the anonymous employer bashing stuff to be such a bunch of shit. If you're unhappy with your employer, move on. We don't need to hear about it ... And I also have no respect for sites like Flamethrower or Fat Babies that seem to get their rocks off hurting people. All this stuff does is end up hurting people ... it never helps. |
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<b>#225</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE> And I also have no respect for sites like Flamethrower or Fat Babies that seem to get their rocks off hurting people. </QUOTE> And I think it's funny that they think they can't be held accountable for libelous statements from anonymous sources... guess what kids? If you reprint a letter word-for-word from someone that contains libelous material, you became the publisher and you're responsible for the libel. (Magazines and newspapers can be held accountable for submitted letters.) Someone could intentionally submit the most libelous material to one of these sites and basically get them sued out of existence. --- "My life is a patio of fun."<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Monolith Rulez |
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And also, Lithtech Rulez. Now back to playing Shogo. |
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<b>#228</b> "Warmonger [AI]" wrote... <QUOTE> And also, Lithtech Rulez. Now back to playing Shogo. </QUOTE> No way, Doods, Blood 2 4ever man. I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Blood 2 is cool also. Like I said, Lithtech rulez. That's why I'm getting the Kiss demo right now (damn 56k modem and Fileplanet). By the way, anyone on the Sanity beta test? The [AI] in my name is for Asylumn Inmates, the first ever Sanity clan. (Yeah we know the game hasn't been released yet.) |
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<b>#230</b> "Warmonger [AI]" wrote... <QUOTE> Blood 2 is cool also. Like I said, Lithtech rulez. That's why I'm getting the Kiss demo right now (damn 56k modem and Fileplanet). By the way, anyone on the Sanity beta test? The [AI] in my name is for Asylumn Inmates, the first ever Sanity clan. (Yeah we know the game hasn't been released yet.) </QUOTE> I could kick yer ass in sanity.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Then join our clan |
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Hmmm, how many Non-US companies employees have to worry about their CEO(s) reading The Crap? Andy, you should take that as a compliment...;) |
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Who agrees with me that Lithtech is the most colorful and rich looking D3D engine? I don't think it's even the Lithtech thing that has anything to do with it. Compare Shogo, Blood 2, Sanity, and KPC to Quake and UT, and the latter two just look plain old grey, almost as bad as this page :) I don't know why I'm asking, I just wanted to know what others thought about this, as I haven't heard it addressed anywhere else. |
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Warmonger, I've never played a Lithtech game<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#234</b> "Warmonger [AI]" wrote... <QUOTE> Who agrees with me that Lithtech is the most colorful and rich looking D3D engine? I don't think it's even the Lithtech thing that has anything to do with it. Compare Shogo, Blood 2, Sanity, and KPC to Quake and UT, and the latter two just look plain old grey, almost as bad as this page :) I don't know why I'm asking, I just wanted to know what others thought about this, as I haven't heard it addressed anywhere else. </QUOTE> I'm frightened. Somebody please tell me he's kidding. I... AM BAYTOR!!!!<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Um... I don't think that applies to websites, Steve. Only to printed material that has been edited and proofed. How can anyone be held responsible for what I just typed on their site 5 min ago? "Yoda of Borg, we are. Futile, resistance is. Assimilated, you will be." |
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What? I'm serious. Maybe it's just me, and Quake 3 wasn't nearly as bad as others, but other games for some reason don't seem to look as eye-catching to me. Sgt. Hulka-- You're missing out big time! |
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#237- There are some conditions under which a forum owner/operator could be liable for libel for message board or forum posts. However, in most cases that isn't a worry. What Mr. Bauman was referring to was taking an anonymous email that was full of bad stuff, then reprinting it on their site. Which they do frequently. And he's absolutely correct - they are just as open to liability as if they presented the anonymous third-party "rumors" as their own news. Defamation law isn't limited to printed material that has been edited and proofread. |
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