Historical Film, Anti-Semitic Propoganda, or Just Another Damn Movie?

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Historical Film, Anti-Semitic Propoganda, or Just Another Damn Movie?
February 26th 2004, 20:47 CET by Trunks

We've all been hearing the talk about Mel Gibson's latest work, Passion of the Christ, which is supposed to be an accurate portrayal* of Jesus H. Christ's last hours on Terra Firma. Reviews and opinions have been mixed. Many are calling it genius from a film standpoint. Others claim it's too violent. Some in the Jewish community call it Anti-Semitic, stating that the movie makes the Jews look bad while absolving the Romans from being shed in a bad light. Others still are worried that, while the movie isn't explicitly Anti-Semitic, there's enough of an inference there to rile up the religious zealot types into starting a wave of Anti-Jew violence and debauchery.

But screw all that, I'm more interested in the vaunted Crapper community's opinion of the film, given the fabulous film commentary made around here in times past. That and Episode 3's still a good year away and we can't start a thread for that one yet...I think.

*According to Gibson's interpretation of the New Testament anyway.

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Home » Topic: Historical Film, Anti-Semitic Propoganda, or Just Another Damn Movie?

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#69 by Post-It
2004-02-27 00:19:14

Towing Jehovah or Only Begotten Daughter are both fantastic books. I have enjoyed all of James Morrow's novels. Definitely worth reading. Towing Jehovah is probably my favorite though. But I really like Bible Stories for Adults.

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#70 by Chunkstyle
2004-02-27 00:20:30

Oh, and The DaVinci Code is a pretty good book, but I really hate the last sentences of every chapter.

Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over much too soon.
-Woody Allen

#71 by jjohnsen
2004-02-27 00:24:11

The Amazon excerpts from Lamb are pretty funny, I'll check it out.

-Jeremy

#72 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 00:25:47

Actually the events of the movie are more drawn from the diaries of an 18th century nun's ecstatic visions, rather than the gospels themselves, which don't go into the crucifixion in such huge detail.

I would much rather see a movie about the nun having the visions, and wrestling between believing they're true images of the past vs paranoid delusions. I don't have the knee-jerk aversion that a lot of ex-Catholics will have with this sort of thing, but I also don't have any interest in another take on Christian mythology. As Bailey would say, SEEN IT.

#73 by Hugin
2004-02-27 00:26:21

Only Begotten Daughter: Second coming, Julie Katz

Towing Jehovah: God's giant corpse is found in the ocean.

I liked them both. I think my favorite bit in either book is a cute little moment when Julie makes the stars spell out messages to her dad.

#74 by jjohnsen
2004-02-27 00:27:30

Oh, and The DaVinci Code is a pretty good book, but I really hate the last sentences of every chapter.

Weird, is the last sentence different than the rest in the book?

-Jeremy

#75 by Caryn
2004-02-27 00:30:03

Thanks, Hugin. Those both sound really cool - I'll have to pick them up.

"For those who have come to grow, the whole world is a garden. For those who have come to learn, the whole world is a university. For those who have come to know God, the whole world is a prayer mat." - M. R. Bawa Muhaiyadeen

#76 by Chunkstyle
2004-02-27 00:32:13

jjohnson:
It's just the style Brown wrote in. Many of the chapters end with something like: "But, little did they, know, that guy was on his way," or "He'd be surprised two hours later when his wish came true." Good story, good stuff about DaVinci (a personal hero of mine), but I don't like some the writer's technique.

Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over much too soon.
-Woody Allen

#77 by Duality
2004-02-27 00:34:06

#66 chris

It's some sort of weird reaction of mine that I probably should make an effort to overcome.

Its an attempt to be unique. You're the only person who hasn't read Harry Potter!

#78 by LPMiller
2004-02-27 00:36:33

I second the James Morrow books, though Only Beggotten is the much better of the two.

I believe I can fly......urk.

#79 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 00:47:54

I share Chris' aversion to things that get over-popular. I also haven't read The Davinci Code or the Harry Potter books. I think it's a hold-over from being a rebellious teen.

#80 by Phayyde
2004-02-27 00:58:32

Contemporary aversion is fine. One-upsmanship is fine. But when the two conditions are combined you get geeks that seek out unknown CRAP and foist it upon their friends, hoping to win the game of "It's obscure, I found it, therefore I win."

Beat to fit, paint to match.

#81 by Bailey
2004-02-27 01:04:47

As a Satanic Buddhist, I have no intention of watching Passion of Christ. Mostly because everything Gibson did after Mad Max was downhill.

Only as much as you deserve.

#82 by chris
2004-02-27 01:07:10

#80 Phayyde

This, I do not participate in, but I know many who do, and it annoys the shit out of me.

Most of what I like is mainstream crap, be it Stephen King, or watching basketball on tv, or listening to Smashing Pumpkins. =)

-chris

#83 by OwenButler
2004-02-27 01:13:36

Just Another Damn Movie.

The story is about as interesting to me as "not another teen movie 7".

#84 by Darkseid-D
2004-02-27 01:14:55

DaVinci Code is interesting, but very `and then, and then, and then` and the author has an awful lot of characters making astonishing leaps of deduction.

Oh and the harry potter books are actually a decent read.

Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

#85 by Duality
2004-02-27 01:15:36

#80 Phayyde

But when the two conditions are combined you get geeks that seek out unknown CRAP and foist it upon their friends, hoping to win the game of "It's obscure, I found it, therefore I win."

I win! (Work Safe)

#86 by Percy Kittenz
2004-02-27 01:18:07

http://www.livejournal.com/users/percykittenz

I also haven't read a single Harry Potter book. I don't claim that they're bad books as very rarely can horrible literature capture the imagination of so very many people who ordinarily wouldn't touch any printed medium unless it was an issue of TV Guide. I just really don't think that it's my kind of book. I really like reading, and do it as frequently as I can. I've seen both Harry Potter movies and I'm just not terribly motivated to find out the rest of the story. I'll admit that there are parts that I think are just poorly done, beyond things that might merely have been unexplained in the movie. I have the same view of Lord of the Rings, there are quite a number of parts that are just badly written from either a storyline perspective or just don't make sense logically.

The synopsis that Caryn provided of Lamb, on the other hand, does have my interest already and I'll probably check out a bit of it when I go to Barnes and Noble later. Another book inspired by the Christian mythos that looks interesting is "To Reign in Hell" by Steven Brust, a retelling of the war between Heaven and Hell. Has anyone read that?

"There is only ONE God:
He is the SUN God:
Ra! Ra! Ra!"
- The Illuminatus Trilogy (Leviathan, Book 4: Beamtenherrschaft)

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Because your philosophy sucks." - Lore Fitzgerald Sjöberg

#87 by Ergo
2004-02-27 01:22:58

Yes.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs

#88 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 01:24:00

I hate the "indier than thou" crowd. I think part of my aversion to something as popular as Harry Potter is that it sets off my "fad" detector. Pulp Fiction did that, and I was right to avoid seeing it (should've missed it altogether). Fight Club also, but it turned out to deserve the acclaim. One of these days I'll read the Potter books and probably enjoy them. I don't think I'll ever read the Davinci Code.

#89 by haplo
2004-02-27 01:26:29

Pulp Fiction did that, and I was right to avoid seeing it (should've missed it altogether)

Glad I am not the only one to not like Pulp Fiction. I tried to watch it once but I fell asleep during it, didn't really "do it for me".

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#90 by Charles
2004-02-27 01:30:08

I don't enjoy showing off the obscure things I've seen or heard, but I do enjoy finding new obscure things that I haven't seen or heard.

Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses.

#91 by Bailey
2004-02-27 01:30:46

What's weird is I've never been able to read more than a page or three of Rowling's pap, but I'll gladly watch the next movie. Probably because the visuals distract from the rather forced and staccato dialogue.

Only as much as you deserve.

#92 by hangedmanAG
2004-02-27 01:33:20

I'm the opposite. Enjoy the books, greatly, but don't give a whit about the movies.

S'right

#93 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 01:33:27

My theory is that whichever Tarantino movie you see first really impresses you, and every one after that disappoints you more and more. I saw Reservoir Dogs first and loved it, other people who saw Pulp Fiction first loved it and were disappointed by Reservoir Dogs.

#94 by chris
2004-02-27 01:33:31

I had the same "uh oh" reaction to pulp fiction, but ended up enjoying the movie... I think because I went into it convinced I was going to hate it.

It's not on my top 50 list, but I didn't think it was bad.

-chris

#95 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-27 01:34:02

Jesus is a Santa Claus for adults.

There. Now Phayyde has someone to actively go after...

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Can’t Handle Femur"

#96 by Bailey
2004-02-27 01:34:10

Enjoy your pap!

Only as much as you deserve.

#97 by chris
2004-02-27 01:35:54

#93 Shadarr

I saw Reservoir Dogs first and think Pulp Fiction is the vastly superior movie.

So I'm afraid your theory = LOSE!

-chris

#98 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 01:37:11

Nein! You just proved the rule, motherfucker!

#99 by Percy Kittenz
2004-02-27 01:42:08

I also didn't like Pulp Fiction. Not because I would say that the writing was bad or anything, I think Tarrintino can write some pretty amazing dialogue and I enjoyed Reservoir Dogs previously. But the characters in Pulp Fiction are all lowlife jerks. None of them are pleasant people and movies with characters like that make me uncomfortable. While the characters in Reservoir Dogs are mostly all bad people doing bad things, you can still relate to at least a couple of them.

The same for Being John Malkovitch. I saw that movie hoping that I would love it. It had a great concept and I love the writing of the Kaufmann brothers in Adaptation. But all the characters were all such assholes that I never want to watch the movie again. None of them seemed to have any redeeming quality about them and I couldn't feel good rooting for any of them. I still think the movie was pretty good, but it wasn't something that I'm able to enjoy, personally.

The same thing may very well go for people who aren't interested in this particular retelling of Jesus' life story. It might not be because they disagree with the story, but they may not enjoy the way it's being told in this instance.

#100 by Foodbunny
2004-02-27 01:42:42

I haven't read To Reign In Hell yet, but Brust is one of my favorite authors. He seems to write for the sheer love of the English language. He's also an incredible nerd.

Verily, they converse with her for this reason only, namely, that she appears to be a complete whore.

#101 by lwf
2004-02-27 01:43:14

Translation: I need movies to have winners.

Plan to hitch a ride with the river
Cuz deep down plumbing life is too cramped for me

#102 by Percy Kittenz
2004-02-27 01:44:38

No, I just don't like to spend an hour and a half with people that I find reprehensible.

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Because your philosophy sucks." - Lore Fitzgerald Sjöberg

#103 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 01:45:35

I didn't mind all the characters being lowlife scum, I just found the pacing incredibly slow and boring. I was sick of the Bible speach before it was over the first time. Also, Bruce Willis and John Travolta are both weak actors. Not as bad as Tarantino himself, but they certainly didn't pull the movie up.

#104 by LPMiller
2004-02-27 01:50:59

I haven't read To Reign In Hell yet, but Brust is one of my favorite authors. He seems to write for the sheer love of the English language. He's also an incredible nerd.

Brust is a great guy, met him, Emma Bull and Will Shetterly a few times when they all still lived here. Hell, the 3 of them were a big reason why Neil Gaimen moved here.

I believe I can fly......urk.

#105 by hangedmanAG
2004-02-27 01:51:37

It had a great concept and I love the writing of the Kaufmann brothers in Adaptation.

Err...you know there are no brothers, right? Donald Kaufmann was a fabrication.

I haven't read To Reign In Hell yet, but Brust is one of my favorite authors. He seems to write for the sheer love of the English language.

Didn't he write the Vlad Taltos novels. Those went downhill, real quick.

S'right

#106 by haplo
2004-02-27 01:52:18

Pulp Fiction is the only Tarantino film I've seen, and I still didn't like it.

How was Kill Bill?

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#107 by hangedmanAG
2004-02-27 01:53:37

Kill Bill was a fun, little flick. Deep as the kiddie pool at a Ramada Inn, though. Still, good fun and it has one of my many crushes, Julie Dreyfus.

S'right

#108 by Hugin
2004-02-27 01:53:38

Lots of kill. Somewhat light on Bill.

#109 by Trunks
2004-02-27 01:54:58

I've been waiting on Kill Bill until I can see the whole thing at once.

"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
-Anthony Holden

#110 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 01:58:39

Those went downhill, real quick.

What makes you say that? The only one I thought sucked was Athyra--the rest have all been top-knotch.

#111 by Terata
2004-02-27 02:07:48

Kill Bill was damn engrossing. Not really deep, but I was interested every step of the way, and probably liked it more than any other movie last year.

#112 by Chunkstyle
2004-02-27 02:09:50

To Reign in Hell is pretty good. An interesting take on the creation and the fall.

Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over much too soon.
-Woody Allen

#113 by Huge Wood Farmer
2004-02-27 02:32:15

CG Grendel

I don't believe in athiests. -Trolly McTroll

#114 by Jamiekin
2004-02-27 02:34:20

Jesus was way cool
Everybody liked Jesus
Everybody wanted to hang out with him
Anything he wanted to do, he did
He turned water into wine
And if he wanted to
He could have turned wheat into marijuana
Or sugar into cocaine
Or vitamin pills into amphetamines

He walked on the water
And swam on the land
He would tell these stories
And people would listen
He was really cool

If you were blind or lame
You just went to Jesus
And he would put his hands on you
And you would be healed
That's so cool

He could've played guitar better than Hendrix
He could've told the future
He could've baked the most delicious cake in the world
He could've scored more goals than Wayne Gretzky
He could've danced better than Barishnikov
Jesus could have been funnier than any comedian you can think of
Jesus was way cool

He told people to eat his body and drink his blood
That's so cool
Jesus was so cool
But then some people got jealous of how cool he was
So they killed him
But then he rose from the dead
He rose from the dead, danced around
Then went up to heaven
I mean, that's so cool
Jesus was way cool

No wonder there are so many Christians

I have a crocodile down my pants.

#115 by chris
2004-02-27 02:45:18

That's so not even the best song on that album.

-chris

#116 by Squeaky
2004-02-27 03:15:32

#85 Duality

#80 Phayyde

But when the two conditions are combined you get geeks that seek out unknown CRAP and foist it upon their friends, hoping to win the game of "It's obscure, I found it, therefore I win."

I win! (Work Safe)

....not... going... to fall in... sarchasm...

fuck.

My name it is Sam Hall an' I hate you, one and all. An' I hate you, one and all. Damn your eyes.
dvds

#117 by Sgt Hulka
2004-02-27 04:18:01

chris "I haven't read the Da Vinci Code simply because of the number of people who have told me I should is staggeringly high. See also: the Harry Potter books. It's some sort of weird reaction of mine that I probably should make an effort to overcome.

Maybe you're just able to make your own decisions, which is admirable.

American society is a rigid, dichotomized instrument of repression which ensures that its members behaved like clones, marching through life with mechanical, assembly-line precision and no tolerance for ambiguity.

#118 by crash
2004-02-27 05:37:37

Won't be seeing this movie, for the same reason I haven't seen any other movies based on the life of Christ: The lead is Caucasian/White. When they care enough to even take a shot at being historically accurate, I'll plunk down my eight bucks.

By this time tomorrow we can be doing BODY SHOTS off HOOKERS in some MEXICAN HELLHOLE

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