Historical Film, Anti-Semitic Propoganda, or Just Another Damn Movie?

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Historical Film, Anti-Semitic Propoganda, or Just Another Damn Movie?
February 26th 2004, 20:47 CET by Trunks

We've all been hearing the talk about Mel Gibson's latest work, Passion of the Christ, which is supposed to be an accurate portrayal* of Jesus H. Christ's last hours on Terra Firma. Reviews and opinions have been mixed. Many are calling it genius from a film standpoint. Others claim it's too violent. Some in the Jewish community call it Anti-Semitic, stating that the movie makes the Jews look bad while absolving the Romans from being shed in a bad light. Others still are worried that, while the movie isn't explicitly Anti-Semitic, there's enough of an inference there to rile up the religious zealot types into starting a wave of Anti-Jew violence and debauchery.

But screw all that, I'm more interested in the vaunted Crapper community's opinion of the film, given the fabulous film commentary made around here in times past. That and Episode 3's still a good year away and we can't start a thread for that one yet...I think.

*According to Gibson's interpretation of the New Testament anyway.

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Home » Topic: Historical Film, Anti-Semitic Propoganda, or Just Another Damn Movie?

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#34 by Charles
2004-02-26 22:38:59

I have no interest in seeing it because the trailer looked crappy.

Religion is the most malevolent of all mind viruses.

#35 by Matthew Gallant
2004-02-26 22:40:25

Woodwork creaks and out come the freaks.

"All I've ever wanted to be is a monkey of moderate intelligence that wears a suit. That's why I'm transferring to business school!"

#36 by Ergo
2004-02-26 22:44:51

#35 Matthew Gallant

Woodwork creaks and out come the freaks.

*sigh*

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs

#37 by yotsuya
2004-02-26 22:46:07

#35

See, and what's so stupid about that is I know a lot of Christians who look at Israel as an ally because it's the Holy Land. Well, guess who lives in Israel?

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns

#38 by Trunks
2004-02-26 22:50:15

Indiana Jones?

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller

#39 by Shadarr
2004-02-26 22:51:16

Yeah, but the Jews are just protecting the Holy Land from the evil Muslims until the real Christians, in America, need it. At that point the Jews get killed along with all the other heathens.

#40 by Ergo
2004-02-26 22:51:27

#37 yotsuya

#35

See, and what's so stupid about that is I know a lot of Christians who look at Israel as an ally because it's the Holy Land. Well, guess who lives in Israel?

From what I understand, a lot of fundies believe that the jews must inhabit the Holy Land in order for Armageddon to occur. When that happens, the Jews must convert or die.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs

#41 by Ergo
2004-02-26 22:51:53

Or what Shadarr said.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs

#42 by Shadarr
2004-02-26 22:52:09

This is pretty funny, especially the backwards e. Is there a George Bush font?

#43 by yotsuya
2004-02-26 22:53:13

You said it much more elegantly, Ergo.

That's a beautiful way to go. Shot by Yot. In more ways than one. -mgns

#44 by chris
2004-02-26 23:02:58

This member of the atheistic/agnostic majority isn't real interested in seeing the film, because I don't find the idea of two-plus hours of good ol' catholic guilt real appealing. The gore doesn't bother me. I've seen a hojillion splatter movies that I'm sure are worse.

I'd be first in line for a movie that was built under the premise that Jesus WASN'T the son of God, but simply a political activist who was murdered for fucking with the status quo.

-chris

#45 by haplo
2004-02-26 23:03:04

Signs like that make me want to wear the biggest star of david possible.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#46 by Ergo
2004-02-26 23:10:58

#44 chris

I'd be first in line for a movie that was built under the premise that Jesus WASN'T the son of God, but simply a political activist who was murdered for fucking with the status quo.

I'll second that opinion.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs

#47 by hangedmanAG
2004-02-26 23:12:22

I'd be first in line for a movie that was built under the premise that Jesus WASN'T the son of God, but simply a political activist who was murdered for fucking with the status quo.

As a movie, that sounds terrible. I would rather see a JFK-like movie where a bright young Roman lawyer digs deep to find who really killed Jesus. I see Ashley Judd as the lawyer, Albert Finney as the high priest and Kevin Bacon as Pontius Pilate.

He's all up in my Kool-Aid, and he don't even know the flavor - seen on Friendster

#48 by haplo
2004-02-26 23:15:27

I'll second that opinion.

I'll third it.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#49 by Trunks
2004-02-26 23:20:17

I'd be interested into seeing a conspiracy theory type movie into the investigation of the whole Holy Grail deal with Jesus. Unfortunately, having played through Gabriel Knight 3, I can't picture how it would turn out without turning into Jane Jensen's story from that game...

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller

#50 by Trunks
2004-02-26 23:20:29

Minus the vampires anyway.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller

#51 by Shadarr
2004-02-26 23:38:19

Fourth'd.

#52 by "Kirk Bradford Myers"
2004-02-26 23:42:09

In order to go in and see a movie like this with an open mind, one has to consider where it's coming from. Artists have their art, whatever that may be...and Mel Gibson's art is making movies. And every artist, no matter how he or she feels, has a right to express their personal viewpoints and feelings through their art, as that is the basis of what art is all about. Gibson said he basically went by the the gospel when it came to making this movie...but people have to understand that they are watching the gospel according to Mel Gibson, the way he decides to interpret it...and he has a right to express that through his art. Others may not share his viewpoints. So whoever wants to get offended by this movie will just have to be offended by it. It wouldn't be the first time someone's art offended somebody. And it certainly won't change the way Mel Gibson feels about things. As for the graphic violence in the movie, i'm sure Mel Gibson didn't just put it in there for shock value. He felt it was necessary to put it in the movie to convey the magnitude of the sacrifice Jesus made on that day. Sometimes art necessitates these things. So agree with it, or don't. It's everyone's choice. Personally, I'm quite interested in seeing this movie, if for nothing else than to reflect on one person's personal interpretation of things. Atheists can deny the presence of God, but recorded history dictates they not deny that Jesus did walk the earth. Quite an interesting history lesson this one should be...

#53 by chris
2004-02-26 23:45:05

Actually, recorded history outside of the bible is still spotty enough that there is tremendous question as to whether Jesus really existed and, if he did, what his life was like.

That said, I *do* believe he was a real historical figure. I just don't believe he was the son of God.

-chris

#54 by Phayyde
2004-02-26 23:50:59

Guffaw, right so yous fux need to AGREE with the politics before you go see a fuckin movie.

How about trusting your willpower not to be subverted?  Or how about risking it all on a challenging premise?  Heheh, or even seeing a piece because it represents many many man hours of conscientious professional work focused on one of the oldest recorded stories?

I'm NOT defending the movie.  I'm attacking the idea that a work must conform to your political specs before you deign to view it.

Beat to fit, paint to match.

#55 by hangedmanAG
2004-02-26 23:52:46

Kirk Bradford Myers (if that is your real name),

I agree with you but nobody, here anyway, seems to arguing about Gibson's right to make the film.  Even if it is anti-semetic, I agree with his right to make the film and, even though agnostic, am kinda jazzed about the content.

Still, Gibson has come across as a paranoid prick during most of his interviews, I think that he has deliberately provoked the anti-semitic talk to stir up interest and I am repulsed at how he has joined forces with the culture-killing, power mongering evangelists of the American Religious Right.  The fact that he is selling this movie through "Christianity, Inc." has really turned me off.

Chris,

I agree with you, personally, about Christ but I don't see how it would make any more of a compelling movie than one with a divine backdrop.  Just because I agree with a film doesn't mean that I would like it, in any way.

He's all up in my Kool-Aid, and he don't even know the flavor - seen on Friendster

#56 by Hugin
2004-02-26 23:54:53

Actually the events of the movie are more drawn from the diaries of an 18th century nun's ecstatic visions, rather than the gospels themselves, which don't go into the crucifixion in such huge detail.

#57 by chris
2004-02-27 00:01:04

Phayyde -

I'm NOT defending the movie. I'm attacking the idea that a work must conform to your political specs before you deign to view it.

Good thing I never said anything remotely close to that, then, huh?

I'm not saying you guys have to find my ideal Christ movie interesting. I just don't see why I have to find Mel's interesting. I can read the bible on my own. I don't need Mel Gibson to read it for me.

I'm not afraid at all of having my beliefs changed. In my mid-teens, I specifically spent some time as part of a christian youth group expressly to learn a bit more about the religion and to see if it was right for me. In the end, I decided it wasn't, and further research and reading has only strengthened that opinion. I still frequently explore the themes of god and spirituality, particularly as it relates to Christianity, in my writing.

It's just that in this instance, what I've read about The Passion so far doesn't really motivate me to go see it.

-chris

#58 by chris
2004-02-27 00:04:30

As a side note, I find it amusing, Phayyde, that you seem to be dying to go on the offensive in this thread even though no one so far has particularly attacked the movie or really disparaged it in any significant manner. It's like you're so excited that someone's going to shout "JESUS IS SUCX!" so you can be all high-minded and open to all viewpoints and appreciative of the work that's been put in, that you're reading that even when people aren't saying it.

-chris

#59 by Hugin
2004-02-27 00:05:09

I don't have to agree with the politics of a movie before I see it. But I can decide that there are things about a movie or the people who make it that I dislike enough that I'll shun the movie. If a movie has an actor I really hate? Won't see it. If a movie is written by someone who I think is a big jerk, and those specific jerk things are encoded into the movie? Won't see it. It's not my duty as a citizen to consume a particular piece of art. And while I'd never advocate censoring Mel or supressing his movie, I'm under no obligation to watch it, especially since I'm already quite familiar with the subject matter.

#60 by Caryn
2004-02-27 00:05:15

I want to see Terry Gilliam direct the movie version of Lamb. I recently finished the book and it was absolutely fantastic. The book is told in first person by Levi who is called Biff, who is Joshua's childhood pal (Joshua being Christ, of course). It's the story of Joshua's life, told by Biff as he travels with him, from the time he's a kid until he's in his early 30's and returns to Israel to fulfill his duties as the Messiah.

The book is absolutely hysterical in parts because the whole thing is done tongue-in-cheek, and Moore's dialogue is some of the best I've read in fiction. And yet at the same time that he's essentially trampling over the Gospel stories in what some I imagine would call blasphemy, he manages to make the characters so easy to empathize with in the most dramatic moments. They're funny characters, extremely human coming off the page, and Moore manages to make you feel so much for them during the dramatic moments of the book. And the ending just stuck with me so strongly -- I of course knew what was going to happen, but you forget when reading it that the entire book is really a parody, and you're rushing toward an ending that the entire world knows, wishing it wouldn't happen because you love these characters so much.

I highly recommend people read the sample pages on Amazon and pick up the book.

"For those who have come to grow, the whole world is a garden. For those who have come to learn, the whole world is a university. For those who have come to know God, the whole world is a prayer mat." - M. R. Bawa Muhaiyadeen

#61 by Hugin
2004-02-27 00:07:13

Caryn, have you ever read Towing Jehovah or Only Begotten Daughter?

#62 by chris
2004-02-27 00:08:03

I haven't read Lamb yet, but I bought it just based off the sample amazon pages. The dialog is superb, and any aspiring authors should definitely check them out for that reason alone.

-chris

#63 by Caryn
2004-02-27 00:09:55

#61 Hugin

Caryn, have you ever read Towing Jehovah or Only Begotten Daughter?

I haven't. Care to offer up a summary and short review? I'm fascinated with biblical myth, so anything that comes from it is potentially interesting to me.

#64 by Trunks
2004-02-27 00:11:57

My fiance keeps bugging me to read The Da Vinci Code...any opinions on that one?

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller

#65 by Phayyde
2004-02-27 00:12:52

Chris, did you make post #44?  Or was that Charles?  I get all the Chris's confoozled.

I've heard unmotivating things about the movie also.  I'm not even all that certain I'll see it in a theater, unless a magic babysitter appears out of thin air handing me tickets.  I love movies, but they don't really rank on my prioritimeter.

It was when you said you discount the flick due to the cath-guilt deal, but you would go if they made one more in line with your current philosophy that perked my ear.

And yes, I'm frequently hungry for theological debate.  It's one of the ways I procrastinate mundane tasks.  And, hey, tax season is here.  Win?  Win!

Beat to fit, paint to match.

#66 by chris
2004-02-27 00:13:16

I grow VERY wary of things that achieve such popular acclaim, even though most of the time they're pretty good. I haven't read the Da Vinci Code simply because of the number of people who have told me I should is staggeringly high.

See also: the Harry Potter books.

It's some sort of weird reaction of mine that I probably should make an effort to overcome.

-chris

#67 by chris
2004-02-27 00:17:22

#65 Phayyde

Chris, did you make post #44? Or was that Charles? I get all the Chris's confoozled.

Yes, I wrote post #44, but I don't think it says when you seem to think it says.

It was when you said you discount the flick due to the cath-guilt deal, but you would go if they made one more in line with your current philosophy that perked my ear.

I don't discount it, it just hurts my interest. I'm not saying it's a bad film, just that I'm not so hot on sitting through it because of my perceptions of the presentation. Martin Scorsese's "Mean Streets" is full of so much Catholic guilt that the box might as well contain an Italian grandmother screaming at her kids, but I still love the film.

-chris

#68 by Chunkstyle
2004-02-27 00:18:47

James Morrow's "Towing Jehovah" was just ok, but I really recommend his "Bible Stories for Adults."

Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over much too soon.
-Woody Allen

#69 by Post-It
2004-02-27 00:19:14

Towing Jehovah or Only Begotten Daughter are both fantastic books. I have enjoyed all of James Morrow's novels. Definitely worth reading. Towing Jehovah is probably my favorite though. But I really like Bible Stories for Adults.

Comment Signature

#70 by Chunkstyle
2004-02-27 00:20:30

Oh, and The DaVinci Code is a pretty good book, but I really hate the last sentences of every chapter.

Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over much too soon.
-Woody Allen

#71 by jjohnsen
2004-02-27 00:24:11

The Amazon excerpts from Lamb are pretty funny, I'll check it out.

-Jeremy

#72 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 00:25:47

I would much rather see a movie about the nun having the visions, and wrestling between believing they're true images of the past vs paranoid delusions. I don't have the knee-jerk aversion that a lot of ex-Catholics will have with this sort of thing, but I also don't have any interest in another take on Christian mythology. As Bailey would say, SEEN IT.

#73 by Hugin
2004-02-27 00:26:21

Only Begotten Daughter: Second coming, Julie Katz

Towing Jehovah: God's giant corpse is found in the ocean.

I liked them both. I think my favorite bit in either book is a cute little moment when Julie makes the stars spell out messages to her dad.

#74 by jjohnsen
2004-02-27 00:27:30

Oh, and The DaVinci Code is a pretty good book, but I really hate the last sentences of every chapter.

Weird, is the last sentence different than the rest in the book?

-Jeremy

#75 by Caryn
2004-02-27 00:30:03

Thanks, Hugin. Those both sound really cool - I'll have to pick them up.

#76 by Chunkstyle
2004-02-27 00:32:13

jjohnson:
It's just the style Brown wrote in. Many of the chapters end with something like: "But, little did they, know, that guy was on his way," or "He'd be surprised two hours later when his wish came true." Good story, good stuff about DaVinci (a personal hero of mine), but I don't like some the writer's technique.

Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over much too soon.
-Woody Allen

#77 by Duality
2004-02-27 00:34:06

#66 chris

It's some sort of weird reaction of mine that I probably should make an effort to overcome.

Its an attempt to be unique. You're the only person who hasn't read Harry Potter!

#78 by LPMiller
2004-02-27 00:36:33

I second the James Morrow books, though Only Beggotten is the much better of the two.

I believe I can fly......urk.

#79 by Shadarr
2004-02-27 00:47:54

I share Chris' aversion to things that get over-popular. I also haven't read The Davinci Code or the Harry Potter books. I think it's a hold-over from being a rebellious teen.

#80 by Phayyde
2004-02-27 00:58:32

Contemporary aversion is fine. One-upsmanship is fine. But when the two conditions are combined you get geeks that seek out unknown CRAP and foist it upon their friends, hoping to win the game of "It's obscure, I found it, therefore I win."

Beat to fit, paint to match.

#81 by Bailey
2004-02-27 01:04:47

As a Satanic Buddhist, I have no intention of watching Passion of Christ. Mostly because everything Gibson did after Mad Max was downhill.

Only as much as you deserve.

#82 by chris
2004-02-27 01:07:10

#80 Phayyde

This, I do not participate in, but I know many who do, and it annoys the shit out of me.

Most of what I like is mainstream crap, be it Stephen King, or watching basketball on tv, or listening to Smashing Pumpkins. =)

-chris

#83 by OwenButler
2004-02-27 01:13:36

Just Another Damn Movie.

The story is about as interesting to me as "not another teen movie 7".

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