UT2K4 Onslaught vs. Planetside

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UT2K4 Onslaught vs. Planetside
February 13th 2004, 04:02 CET by Hugin

The first thing I thought after a few rounds of Onslaught was "Boy, this feels like Planetside on amphetamines."

The next thing I thought was...does Epic's explicit "sporting competition" model for the UT games offer advantages over a game like Planetside, which is attempting to model and simulate a "real" (albeit imaginary) conflict?  In Onslaught, both sides have access to the same weapons and vehicles, which makes an intuitive sense in the sports context, and neatly avoids most of the endless complaining about faction balance in Planetside. The critical network nodes are quite exposed, which makes no "real world" defensive sense, but allows for some furious open battling, instead of the sometimes unsatisfying attritional meatgrinder corridor and stairway battles in Planetside.  Overall, by not having to adhere to so many background story/worldbuilding elements to justify the gameplay conventions, is a better game created?  Is the loss of the deeper meaning written into the background story of Planetside and other fictional conflicts, or recreations of historical events like WW2 worth the tighter gameplay? Is the preservation of a planet or a species or a social philosophy, the defeat of evil, etc (even these people and factions are entirely fictitious) a more compelling goal than winning the Space Superbowl?

  Would it be impossible to hook players into the MMOG, subscription format if it were merely an elaborate sports league?  Is this all really more about the smaller team sizes more than anything else?  Epic or Sony, who's got the smarter sci-fi war?

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#110 by Charles
2004-02-13 17:30:22

One day. I think we've set a new record for 'bitter and jaded'...

Not really. I've played the game before in various incarnations, there are only superficial differences. Plus, a lot of my dislike for UT2k3 is still there. The vehicles are fun and all, but when it comes back down to it, I still don't like UT2k3, and UT2k4 is still UT2k3 to a large extent. I wasn't even going to try the demo, since I was relatively sure it would be UT2k3 with some vehicles. The game type is kind of fun, but I think it's flawed, and in the end everything just creeps up and kills my ability to have fun in the game.

I have no excuses, least of all for God. Like all tyrants, he is not worthy of the spit you would waste on negotiations. The deal we have is infinitely simpler - I don't call him to account, and he extends me the same courtesy.

#111 by Duality
2004-02-13 17:32:13

There are bots available that will take places for unfilled slots.

#112 by Matt Perkins
2004-02-13 17:33:22

No bots. Bots are not fun. People == fun.

"Good, good. Now, and here is where I'm going with this - I'll be fucked if I can remember how to farm."
- LP

#113 by Trolly McTroll
2004-02-13 17:34:40

#88 "Anonymous"

#46 by Your Friend

UT2k4 is pretty lame.
That's all I have to say about that.

Now, even if I personally were cursed so horribly with such retarded taste in games as to opine that in the lone darkness of my room with the wind tickling the hairs of my ear breezing through my skull, I hope I'd still have enough common sense not to post that opinion even on a messageboard populated solely by racoons. The game is so bountiful in brilliant solutions that it is literaly pissing in the mouth of Battlefield, on its knees, while balancing its ass on the top drawer of Planetside's desk its Apuing in. In no particular order: AVRIL guidance system, herding spider-bots, manta jumping, chaining those humvee energy balls on a field filled with enemy infantry, competent bots, vehicle physics, no special repairman class, link designer and 1-on-1 onslaught with single path map, assault rifles akimbo, a loving reconstruction of Moria in CTF, link gun & skeletons, man the turrets!, weapon holders. I crave onslaught like air by now. UT2004 is loving bliss which is bound finally top HL's number of servers in Gamespy stats by the next summer's end.

Nice to see that fag Mark Rein posting here again when he's not beating off to photos of Billy Barty.

You Know You Envy the soul of Trolly McTroll

#114 by Trolly McTroll
2004-02-13 17:37:07

#105 Warren Marshall

Also, the server will probably go down tomorrow morning and stay that way, since I'm tired of UT2k4 already.

One day. I think we've set a new record for 'bitter and jaded'...

No young pony tailed grasshoppper. not 'bitter and jaded' but 'educated and informed and bored and not shucking out 60 bucks for a rehash of a game that's been around for years'

You Know You Envy the soul of Trolly McTroll

#115 by jjz
2004-02-13 17:37:15

I'm not sure that a bot is the ideal replacement for a person, given the skill levels are usually set poorly when they're set. Either too perfect or walking at half-speed missing all the way. But I'd be content with such a thing, I suppose.

#116 by jafd
2004-02-13 17:46:05

I would rather have one bot added to balance teams than have the entire endeavor collapse because of force imbalance. Charles is right, one uncountered person makes a huge difference.

Does "auto-adjust skill" work on a bot in that situation? I'd like to give that a try. But from what I've seen, a level 3 bot would kick most of your asses.

It's my life. It never ends.

#117 by Charles
2004-02-13 17:47:27

Running bots on a server is a good way to make the server slow.

#118 by jafd
2004-02-13 17:47:56

I'm talking about one bot, Chuckles.

It's my life. It never ends.

#119 by Matt Perkins
2004-02-13 17:55:14

The one person less isn't that big of a deal. This is a mole hill, leave it at that.

"Good, good. Now, and here is where I'm going with this - I'll be fucked if I can remember how to farm."
- LP

#120 by lwf
2004-02-13 17:56:32

I think we should play bombing run. Is there such a thing as bombing run with vehicles?

We're all so funny funny's lost it's charm

#121 by Matt Perkins
2004-02-13 18:00:03

I think we should play bombing run. Is there such a thing as bombing run with vehicles?

That could be REALLY interesting.

"Good, good. Now, and here is where I'm going with this - I'll be fucked if I can remember how to farm."
- LP

#122 by Hugin
2004-02-13 18:08:21

Enh. Bombing run with vehicles sounds like an endless stream of Mantas running all over everything in creation, unless the map terrain was really interesting.

#123 by jafd
2004-02-13 18:16:17

MattP, you're insane. I just got done this very minute with a 2vs3 match. One person attacks the core. One person sits in the turret at the prime power node. One person goes and gets the Goliath over and over and over. What exactly are two people supposed to do against that? Die, that's what.

It's my life. It never ends.

#124 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-13 18:27:42

Well, one person less matters if the numbers are low, yes.

3 vs 2 is a very different situation from 9 vs 8.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Can’t Handle Femur"

#125 by Greg
2004-02-13 18:32:34

And as we know the game isn't called SOF2-Test(Shop Edition, so you're bound not to have 20 people in a PC game.

-DKI(ID

#126 by jafd
2004-02-13 18:37:03

9 vs 8 is different if you're assuming that some non-zero percantage of those 17 people are fucktards -- which is of course the case on public servers. If everyone is at least somewhat skilled and experienced, an additional team member is a huge advantage, simply because the vehicles are so mighty.

Charles, one bot please.

It's my life. It never ends.

#127 by Matt Perkins
2004-02-13 18:41:54

jafd

Maybe I'm insane, but if the two best people are on the 2 person team, they can work together and make it work.

That being said, I didn't assume we were talking about a 5 person total game. 2 on 3 people is rough. Maybe use a bot that just sits at home... I still don't like the idea. Bots aren't fun for me...ever.

"Good, good. Now, and here is where I'm going with this - I'll be fucked if I can remember how to farm."
- LP

#128 by chris
2004-02-13 18:52:06

You know what's the best? Latching on to minutiae like a rottweiller and clinging to it so stubbornly that even people who might agree with you are left eventually wanting nothing more than to brain you with a rock and leave your twitching corpse behind.

-chris

#129 by Ergo
2004-02-13 18:57:13

chris--

Very nice.

MY FATE KEEPS INTERFERING WITH MY DESTINY. THAT IS KARMA.
DVDs

#130 by jafd
2004-02-13 19:07:03

Bots aren't fun for me...ever.

I am proposing one bot. Singular.

Would I rather have a human? Sure. Would I rather sit around and spectate while I wait for another human to show up? No.

It's my life. It never ends.

#131 by BobJustBob
2004-02-13 19:09:43

How can anyone not like chris?

Poor Jeet.

Dood.

#132 by jjohnsen
2004-02-13 19:10:37

Maybe I'm not noticing all the small things because I never play online games. I still love it and none of the problems people are bringing up have had an effect on my fun. I'm sad that Charles is taking his server down though, I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have this much fun with a public server full of 12-year-olds.

-Jeremy

#133 by lwf
2004-02-13 19:20:19

Mandog is going to host a server instead.

We're all so funny funny's lost it's charm

#134 by jafd
2004-02-13 19:23:14

Great! I'll pre-order it so I can be pre-banned.

It's my life. It never ends.

#135 by Trunks
2004-02-13 19:24:36

While I've only been in games with around 8-10 people or so last night, I have to agree with the 1 player difference imbalance. Whenever one team ended up one player short, more often than not they weren't doing as well. Just my observations.

And Xero, next time you try driving...I want to man the guns once in a while damnit.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller

#136 by Marsh Davies
2004-02-13 19:39:05

Warren or anybody -

Know of any good reason why a Geforce4 ti4200 card wouldn't be able to cope with UT2k4? Is it something to do with DirectX 9? I have the same problem with FarCry, the first game I played since DX9 - everything's supah until the map loads, then I get a few seconds of gameplay before it freezes, the sound loops and then crashes UT to desktop or XP bluescreens.

I can play with the software rendering, though, of course, it looks like a big inflatable bag of ass.

I've read incoherent babble on other forums about problems between Geforce4 and DX9 that sound similar, but I can't be certain. Suggestions on said sites varied from changing "core speeds", altering "sync rates" and attacking your gaphics card with a soldering iron. I place little faith in these recommendations.

Any ideas?

- The Porcine Delivery System -

#137 by haplo
2004-02-13 19:46:08

I think the flying vehicle is rather nifty. And since I suck on foot its nice to own the air.

TOP GUN!!!

I would think you need to get more then one air kill to be a top gun, but maybe thats just me.
Having a multiperson aircraft (something like the bombers from T2) would be pretty sweet as well.

p.s. Do all you "in the know" people think the Mythica cancelling is rather sudden and fishy?

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#138 by "FAVICON"
2004-02-13 19:47:08

WTF BITCHERS

NOW IM PISSED OFF

YOU KNOW WHY..

#139 by "FAVICON"
2004-02-13 19:47:19

YES, YOU.

#140 by haplo
2004-02-13 19:47:20

I have a Gf4 Ti 4400 and Far Cry and UT 2004 both work fine for me...maybe its a 4200 issue?

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#141 by Warren Marshall
2004-02-13 19:51:33

Marsh

Trying running the game with the switch "-nosound". That would eliminate your sound card/drivers as a possible cause.

"Cheap Garbage Disposal Can’t Handle Femur"

#142 by Marsh Davies
2004-02-13 19:58:59

It lasted longer this time - maybe 30 seconds - but still crashed to desktop.

I got an error message the first time it happened, but not since. Stupidly I didn't write it down, thinking I would see whether it was a freak ocurrence first.

- The Porcine Delivery System -

#143 by Caryn
2004-02-13 20:01:11

#137 haplo

p.s. Do all you "in the know" people think the Mythica cancelling is rather sudden and fishy?

What would be fishy about it? I thought their stated reasons were pretty clear - the MMOG market is pretty saturated and they didn't think it would be fiscally sound to enter it so late in the game.

I'm not certain where the hint of conspiracy is in this.

"For those who have come to grow, the whole world is a garden. For those who have come to learn, the whole world is a university. For those who have come to know God, the whole world is a prayer mat." - M. R. Bawa Muhaiyadeen

#144 by Neale
2004-02-13 20:03:02

You've not been wearing your tinfoil hat, have you Caryn?

9 years later you're the fat kid with his face pressed against the window of The Industry. - crash

#145 by Caryn
2004-02-13 20:09:10

What are you talking about, Neale? There was no game called Mythica...

Does the Jedi hand wave...

#146 by haplo
2004-02-13 20:18:01

I don't see a conspiracy. I just think this game had a lot of promise, and a large public following. The reasons said something about an "oversaturated market". While I agree with that statement, I think its wierd that a popular game would be canned so suddenly.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#147 by Matt Perkins
2004-02-13 20:20:29

Marsh

I have a Geforce ti4600, no problems with the latest nvidia AND latest directx installed. I did have problems until I forceably updated those again (the problems were with farcry).

"Good, good. Now, and here is where I'm going with this - I'll be fucked if I can remember how to farm."
- LP

#148 by LPMiller
2004-02-13 20:20:37

They canceled it because of the Doom 3 co-op RPG module Caryn is testing out now.

I believe I can fly......urk.

#149 by Matt Perkins
2004-02-13 20:22:01

Whatever the reasons are, I'm glad to see it. Not many companies can put so much time and money into a product and afford to just can it if they don't like the way it's going. I like to see that when it's possible and I'd most definitely rather see that than a half baked game released at some point.

"Good, good. Now, and here is where I'm going with this - I'll be fucked if I can remember how to farm."
- LP

#150 by Jibble
2004-02-13 20:23:00

What's that, Caryn? Doom 3 is going to have online Massively Multiplayer co-op?

Laughter truly is the best medicine, unless, of course, you're vomiting at the time.

#151 by haplo
2004-02-13 20:24:47

Not many companies can put so much time and money into a product and afford to just can it if they don't like the way it's going.

Didn't seem to me they cancelled it beacuse it was going badly though. Seemed to be coming along quite well.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#152 by Trunks
2004-02-13 20:25:42

Marsh, I also have a GeForce4 Ti 4200 and I'm having no issues. Sounds like you have some sort of resource conflict on your system.

"Because apparently, Link should be visiting strippers and getting his rocks off every time he blows the magic flute." - LPMiller

#153 by Matt Perkins
2004-02-13 20:26:03

haplo

Didn't seem to me they cancelled it beacuse it was going badly though. Seemed to be coming along quite well.

Maybe that can be explained by an outsiders point of view...? We don't know details, can't really say what happened or why.

"Good, good. Now, and here is where I'm going with this - I'll be fucked if I can remember how to farm."
- LP

#154 by Caryn
2004-02-13 20:30:27

haplo:

You said for a game that seemed to be "doing well". All I'd seen were a couple of previews and some screenshots. Did we honestly know it was doing well? It was far from done, I'd thought.

#155 by haplo
2004-02-13 20:30:28

Point taken.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#156 by Phayyde
2004-02-13 20:31:42

a) MyDoom, et alii
b) ASN.1
c) Win2K source code in the hands of the blackhats.
d) Gartner Group says Microsoft security sucks.

Our Free Market has an autoimmune disorder called MS.

Beat to fit, paint to match.

#157 by haplo
2004-02-13 20:32:10

Caryn:

I base it all on my own semi-informed position and nothing more. So in line with what both you and Matt said...I guess we just don't know what really happened.

<@jafd> Anyway, Darth, your name is stupid. sry.
<@Ashiran> So no more darthnugget?
<@haplo> darthnugget has left the building

#158 by Marsh Davies
2004-02-13 20:37:48

Trunks:

Marsh, I also have a GeForce4 Ti 4200 and I'm having no issues. Sounds like you have some sort of resource conflict on your system.

No... no. God just hates me.

*sobs*

- The Porcine Delivery System -

#159 by Hugin
2004-02-13 20:42:23

#157 by haplo

I guess we just don't know what really happened.

My guess is that MS looked at the market and decided it wasn't likely to deliver profits worth the remaining development time and ongoing support resources. But I'm crazy like that.

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