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The End of the Exclusive?
August 30th 2003, 23:18 CEST by JMCDaveL So on Thursday pretty much every gaming site that hosts downloads banded together against Gamespy's exclusive on the Call of Duty demo. After thousands of sweating hamburger stained forum dwellers screamed "NO YUO~!!!" in unison, Activision has decided to release the demo to everyone... early at that. So, does this mean that anytime Gamespy gets special attention then the interweb militia will take up arms and cry until Gamespy has to share its toys again? Also, will the idiots who set nasty emails to Caryn over this die a horrible death involving knitting needles and a hummer? |
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Topic: The End of the Exclusive?
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In other news, we may not have very long to live. |
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Hopefully this one digs up a little more scare than NT-17 did. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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1 in 909,000? I'll bet twenty bucks against. "I keep trying to read your posts, but all the letters keep morphing into "HULAHGUALGHUAALHAGH". Perhaps I can file this as a bug." --Bailey
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Fuck that, I can't trust you to pay up if you lose. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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I'll bet 1000 dollars that you're all going to die. What asteroid? Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say! |
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The one that has "Die pesky humans!" stamped on the side. AND DON'T ADD A SMILEY AFTER EVERY GODDAMN THING YOU SAY!
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Dont worry, when the hot hail starts a square jawed Sam Jones, accompanied by a perky breasted Melody Anderson will be there to save us ! Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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I tried to drag this topic back to games, and it almost worked, but damn you people. I wanted to talk about Call of Duty! How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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#189 Charles I tried to drag this topic back to games, and it almost worked, but damn you people. I wanted to talk about Call of Duty! We talked about it for 10 minutes. The demo is over, the topic is over. Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin. |
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I hate you. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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Hulka, that's really rough...I hope insurance will cover you. Call of Duty demo was a great deal of fun. I will definitely be picking that up. Oh, and I got engaged this weekend. I will soon be joining the ranks of married planetcrappers. !
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Re: Hulka Maybe you should call a lawyer? Re: Charles hating GTA3 and Call of Duty Hypocrite. Re: Fugazi Congratulations. |
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Congrats Fugazi. Call of Duty: I agree with Charles, I'm tired of complete non-interaction with environments in games. The one feeling I got playing the COD demo was that it was entirely too scripted. I understand where Warren is coming from as well, and agree to a certain extent. "Cinematic" experiences definitely enhance a game. However, there is a fine balance to be struck between "cinematic" experiences and the sense that I am going from A->B->C without any deviations. Again, I really felt like I was playing a spruced up Duck Hunt while I was playing that demo. However, I am now playing Tron 2.0 and really digging it. I was a fan of the movie and the game caputres the mood perfectly. The gameplay is fairly unforgiving, there are jumping puzzles, and the plot is pretty jerky but it still has a much greater suspension-of-disbelief factor the COD. The game oozes style, and the story is firm enough to explain why things are the way they are. Not to mention there are some pretty funny bits in the game if you know anything about computers. Even though the levels in Tron 2.0 are quite linear, they are FUN linear. Not to mention that the RPG lite system (essenstially Deus Ex's system but reskinned for the Tron universe), and character interaction make Tron 2.0 that much more fun of a game. Tron 2.0's graphics and setting, combined with elements it stole from Deus Ex, make it different enough to be thoroughly entertaining as a single player experience. (Granted it still has its faults) COD breaks suspension-of-disbelief in the first five seconds when I can shoot my teammates like crazy and nothing happens. Single player FPS are by default solitary experiences. Most attempts to throw in a squad of teamates fail IMO. The last game I recall them being fun was Halo, they talked smack, moved intelligently & non-scripted, and would gun you down if you shot at them. I guess my main complaint about games that try and give the player some type of narrative driven experience do not focus anywhere near enough on developing a game/atmosphere that actively encourages a suspension-of-disbelief. Thoughts/Opinions? Comment Signature
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Congrats Fugazi. |
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#160 by LPMiller what the hell, Hulka? Did you get your insurance out of a Cracker Jacks box? Sucks. Unfortunately LP if you live in an area that has even the slightest possibility of seeing a flood, or near such an area flood insurance is next to impossible to get. About the best you can do is the National Flood Insurance Program, which frankly is piss poor insurance. Also a good deal of the time the sewage backup gets thrown in with the flood (the flood overpowers the shared rain run off/sewage system so flooding is blamed for the backups, this was the case for the fort wayne area floods a few months ago). |
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To present a story of any sort you need linearity. While GTA3 may not be open ended in that sense that you can get a mission from anyone at any time at the start of the game, its freedom comes from how you do the mission (this is what DX tried to do). Contrast that with MOH (I would use COD to be on topic, but I haven't played the demo yet) and there is generally only one way to accomplish something. Granted it's only a WWII shooter, but it's up to the fancy pants game designers to come up with the interesting ideas. |
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Oh yea, getting flood insurance if you live in a flood zone is either impossible or very expensive. I know of no homeowner’s policy that covers floods by default. Hell, my policy doesn't cover earthquakes and there hasn't been one of those here since the Jurassic. |
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There was a minor earthquake in Bucks County last week. We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way. We are OK. |
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Here's the link. We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way. We are OK. |
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After 9/11 my tenant insurance went up about $15. The clerk said it was because of terrorism. I asked whether I was insured for acts of terrorism and she said no. |
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There were several dyke breaches last week and you complain about a minor earthquake? Infidel! AND DON'T ADD A SMILEY AFTER EVERY GODDAMN THING YOU SAY!
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You need to go back to school for some more English classes, as most people would recognize that I was not complaining. I was just stating a fact. We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way. We are OK. |
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Ashiran: Those dykes wouldn't have breached if you had your fingers in them, like you're supposed to. Fugazi: Congratulations. Prowling over the mini-mall parking lot, wielding a burning branch, cometh Chunkstyle! And he gives a spectacular roar: "I'm going to hump you until you taste like chicken!!"
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that's fucked-up, shadarr "There are design firms out there that could come up with things we've never thought of," Jobs continued, "things that would make you shit in your pants."
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#193 G-Man Re: Charles hating GTA3 and Call of Duty Hypocrite. Read->Comprehend->Post. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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#201 Shadarr After 9/11 my tenant insurance went up about $15. The clerk said it was because of terrorism. I asked whether I was insured for acts of terrorism and she said no. My insurance company told me that terrorism is considered an act of god. No joke. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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ah but WHICH god ? Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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They don't differentiate. I think that would be discrimination of some sort. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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I was just stating a fact. Imperialist lies! AND DON'T ADD A SMILEY AFTER EVERY GODDAMN THING YOU SAY!
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I'm pretty sure the broker said it was classified the same as an act of god, rather than that it was one. That's something at least. |
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I'm no fan of Deus Ex, but comparing Tron 2.0 to Deus Ex will only get laughter and pointing from me. Tron 2.0 is more like NOLF2 with 1/4th the plot. --jmc
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#211 Shadarr I'm pretty sure the broker said it was classified the same as an act of god, rather than that it was one. That's something at least. Oh, I know what was meant. However, what was said makes all the difference. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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Oops, I should've said "my broker" there, to clarify that I'm not in fact disagreeing with you. Whatever. This discussion is rapidly losing its funny. |
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#206 Charles Read->Comprehend->Post. Choose any two. Why does everyone forget the second part of that saying? I'm a closet metrosexual.
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It's a process, not a choice, fucker. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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I agree with what Post-It said regarding Call of Duty. Very flashy presentation, very shallow game (judging from the short demo) with no more attempt to create a believable world than any FPS that's come out over the last decade. Not a trend I'm really wanting to embrace. One of the big problems I had with Medal of Honor wasn't the fact that it was scripted, but that it was so obvious. Linearity is not a bad thing, scripting is not a bad thing. Giving the player virtually no freedom to experiment or try different approaches and forcing them down a rigid path where deviance usually means a quick reload, coupled with a non-interactive environment pulls me right out of the game world. Want to shoot out a light? Too bad, you can't. Want to block a door with furniture to keep enemies at bay? Too bad, you can't. Want to face the consequences of shooting a teammate? Well, we don't, so nothing will happen if you do! And on and on. On top of all this, many games (shooters, especially) are getting ever shorter. So we are paying the same prices to get shorter games that are becoming less interactive but full of dazzling special effects. In the end, we'll be paying $50 for a non-interactive movie. Perhaps this is where that whole Hollywood/gaming convergence is supposed to happen. "I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
"I'm getting a 404 on the yarn link, Caryn. BAILEY DEMANDS YARN." |
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Can I ask what a more "realistic" world adds to the gameplay experience? I know it's the current pony that fanbois are riding, but what does it matter if you shoot the table and it reacts properly or not? Does this somehow make the game more fun? To put it another way ... where would you prefer development effort be spent : on gameplay/ai, or on making a table look and react like real wood? Before answering, please remember that we don't live in a world with unlimited schedules and budgets. Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin. |
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To put it another way ... where would you prefer development effort be spent : on gameplay/ai, or on making a table look and react like real wood? I would prefer, if the said budget and time don't cover making your own engine, that you license an engine that handles "real world" stuff as much as possible and make a damn fine game inside of that. An engine that handles the Real World (tm) just brings you that much further into the game. Engaging you and bringing into a the world is the goal. That goal is helped along by many things, one of them being phsyics we can relate with. "I'm an extreme programmer. I don't plan anything when I code."- Lord Nekrull
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It's a dangerous goal, though. The more you can make the game world seem like the real world, the more the player expects it to behave like the real world. If there's something the player is unable to do, it pisses them off far more than it would in a less realistic game, where the players feels like they are discovering the way the game world works rather than simulating the real world. If the team spends all their time making everything totally realistic, to the point that you can make dirt clods and juggle them, or start a grass fire with the scope off your rifle, they won't have any time left to put the fun in. |
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#219 Matt Perkins An engine that handles the Real World (tm) just brings you that much further into the game. Engaging you and bringing into a the world is the goal. That goal is helped along by many things, one of them being phsyics we can relate with. Forgetting for a moment that a realistic WWII game spawned this discussion, I wish more people would come up with games that were like playable cartoons. The laws of physics don't even apply in cartoons; anything can happen. I'd love to play a game designed around the concept of the Looney Tunes world (I'm not necessarily talking about art, I'm just talking about the silly, "you don't actually fall 100 feet to the ground until you've noticed that you ran off the cliff" world). Just for fun. Basically, I'm with Shadarr to a certain extent. There's only so much effort a developer can expend to make the world realistic before they're so bogged down in the details that the rest of the game begins to suffer for lack of attention. My battlecry: "Zang! Who is that, running on the fields! It is Hellchick, hands clutching buzzsaw hand extensions! She roars mightily: 'I'm going to brutalize you harder than God thought possible!!!'"
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Shadarr Right, that's my round about point. The more realistic things get, the more the unrealistic stuff is going to stick out like a sore thumb. Trying to mimic reality inside of a computer is a dangerous goal I think - you may think you're immersing the player, but you may be doing the exact opposite. Respawn Games
Open your mind, let the beatings begin. |
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more believable world, means we can think sideways, rather than shoot it out with the enemy we could knock the fridge over so it blocks the doorway and retreat another route. Its being able to make another way into that room you just holed up in using the multiple tons of weaponry I seem to have at my disposal its being able to get the drop on an enemy by taking out the fusebox, or dropping a smoke grenade down the chimney its about being able to get up on that ledge and shimmy around behind where that bastard with the sniper rifle is lurking its about doing MORE than just run and gun, which why FPS gaming is so bloody stagnant Hopefully Half Life 2's touted physics engine and that gravity gun will lend itself to a bit more improvisation. Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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For my money, the best FPS MP map I ever played was the one from the SiN demo, where you were mouse-sized and you fought in giant living room. Realism went out the door, and the point was to frag and have fun. I spent hours on that map. "YES!! You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games. Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
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Kindly point out where I used the word "realistic". "I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
"I'm getting a 404 on the yarn link, Caryn. BAILEY DEMANDS YARN." |
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#225 Creole Ned Kindly point out where I used the word "realistic". You didn't use "realistic", but you used "believable". Disregarding the usual "real world setting" meaning of "realistic", I'm not sure how you meant something different than "realistic". My battlecry: "Zang! Who is that, running on the fields! It is Hellchick, hands clutching buzzsaw hand extensions! She roars mightily: 'I'm going to brutalize you harder than God thought possible!!!'"
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AI to me is number one. And anyway you can't make a more interactive world without making much smarter AI. Last thing you want is the player to cleverly block a door only to have the AI enemies bunch up at it wondering why it's stuck. Or the AI to glitch somehow and accidently block a door the player has to get through. But good AI can make any game more entertaining. Not good as in good at killing the player. I mean things like ducking for cover, shooting wildly as they try to flee and crapping their pants when that grenade lands next to them. |
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Want to shoot out a light? Too bad, you can't. Want to block a door with furniture to keep enemies at bay? Too bad, you can't. Want to face the consequences of shooting a teammate? Well, we don't, so nothing will happen if you do! And on and on. On top of all this, many games (shooters, especially) are getting ever shorter. So we are paying the same prices to get shorter games that are becoming less interactive but full of dazzling special effects. Well, atypical FPSes like Thief, No One Lives Forever, Deus Ex 2: Invisible War and Half-Life 2 have at trying to innovate the FPS genre. The AI in No One Lives Forever 2 were partially scripted and were intelligent enough to investigate disturbances with the lights, sounds or objects. I noticed that in the Call of Duty demo that you can shoot intentionally squadmates without failing the mission or the captain bitching at you. |
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#218 Warren Marshall Can I ask what a more "realistic" world adds to the gameplay experience? I know it's the current pony that fanbois are riding, but what does it matter if you shoot the table and it reacts properly or not? Does this somehow make the game more fun? No, it adds to the suspension of disbelief. In a single player game, that's the most important thing. As more games innovate these little things, it becomes harder to go back to games that don't do it at all. #218 Warren Marshall To put it another way ... where would you prefer development effort be spent : on gameplay/ai, or on making a table look and react like real wood? Being able to shoot a table is minor compared to things like being able to take more than one given path. And once people start licensing the Half Life 2 engine, the issue is going to become even greater, because the games that use the HL2 engine as a base, which allows for that kind of interactivity, are going to already have an edge over the static engines. #220 Shadarr It's a dangerous goal, though. I'm not saying the world must be real. I'm saying that I want it to be believable. There is a pretty big difference there. One of my game design mantras is that reality is no substitute for good gameplay, and this holds in all situations. But if you can make your world more believable, it adds to the suspension of disbelief, which inherently makes your game more entertaining. So while it has no direct benefit or impact on how 'fun' something is, the indirect benefit is more than worth it. How many it had cost in the amassing, what blood and sorrow, what good ships scuttled on the deep, what brave men walking the plank blindfold, what shot of cannon, what shame and lies and cruelty, perhaps no man alive could tell.
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I just wanted to thank those of you that gave me advice on my crashing computer (including Bailey that told me to ignore all advice fro PC and take it somewher to get fixed). It turned out it was a fried no-name power supply. Its now been replaced with a nice quiet Antec and fortunately nothing else was ruined when it died. Anyway, thanks again for your help, and feel free to return to the normal sarky-ness. |
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feel free to return to the normal sarky-ness. You lying, overclocking bastard! "YES!! You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games. Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
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