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Have Game Retailers Stolen the Consumer's Voice?
May 23rd 2003, 21:16 CEST by Charles I went to Electronics Boutique today with the intention of buying Enter the Matrix. However, due to the mixed opinions I've been hearing from people around the crap (and elsewhere), I had reservations. So, before committing to a purchase, I inquired if they still accepted returns on opened games. Since EB has traditionally accepted returns even when other retailers did not, I was somewhat surprised to be told that they in fact, did not accept returns on opened games anymore. Now honestly, I wasn't that surprised. I'd heard through the grapevine that EB was cancelling this policy, which is why I made sure to ask first. But knowing that they actually did cancel it irked me. I don't like having that power taken away from me. In fact, despite that I can't remember ever actually returning a game I'd purchased, it downright angered me. Now, I'm not sure whether it's just a retailers being stupid thing, or if publishers have managed to make it difficult for the retailers to return merchandise. Normally in a retail channel, it's just a matter of returning the merchandise to the distributor, and waiting for a replacement. Usually in those cases, the maker of the item incurs the cost of the return. In games, the publisher just takes that cost out of the developer's cut, so that shitty games that end up with lots of returns directly cut in to the money the developer makes. Seems like a good system to me, developer makes shitty game, developer fucks themselves over. A crappy enough game would cut in to the money the publisher makes too. So it seems to me the blocking of returns is just a way for publishers and developers to release shit games with impunity. After all, there is absolutely nothing a consumer can do after they've purchased the game; they are stuck with whatever crap was packed in the box. It's no wonder publishers can continue to pump out junk games. If they put a small enough amount of money in to the development, even the random buys a title gets through a decent marketing campaign should be enough for them to make some amount of money. It's inconsequential if the game works properly or not. Now, I can understand the rationale behind not allowing returns of PC games. After all, with PC games, it's just a matter of installing the game, downloading the crack, and voila, you have the game and can return the original to the store. Console games, however, are a far different story. To do something like that with a console game requires a modded console, and most likely a dvd burner of some sort. Gamecube games, you can't even do that. GBA games, you'd need a flash linker. In most of these cases, the people who've already found themselves the means to pirate games will most likely just get it off the net without even bothering with a trip to the store. So is piracy really the issue? It's the most commonly quoted reason, but I don't really think it's the issue. Some people say it's because gamers will buy the game, play it, beat it, return it. I suppose that could be an issue. But it's easily handled. With a short enough grace time, and maybe a small restocking fee, it becomes easier for someone to go rent the game, play it, then return it. It also requires much less cash up front, and much less hassle. Also, it wouldn't be hard for the store to require your personal info when you want your money back (or even in store credit) to just make sure that you don't do it with every game you buy. Make it an inter-store database, and you cut out their ability to just run to a different EB to do it. But again, is this really that much of an issue? How many games can be completed in that time? How many people who really want to avoid buying a game, will buy it then go so much out of their way to return it, when there are plenty of other ways to avoid paying for it? It just seems to me that the whole charade of not allowing returns is done just so that the consumer is stuck with what they buy. It seems like a knee-jerk reaction to the output of an industry that tends to be subpar as often as not. And because of this, it allows the game industry to continue to produce junk, since there is no real action that a consumer can take to show that they don't like getting suckered in to buying shit. You can argue buyer beware, and say that the consumer's power is in not purchasing it to begin with. But in that case, they are losing sales from people who just don't want to be burned. As I stated to begin with, I want to buy Enter the Matrix. I'd buy it, I'd play it, and I'd most likely not return it, even if I had the ability. But considering that reviews of the game go out of their way to point out all the bugs and crashes, it's just a risk I'm not willing to take. So am I just spazzing? Or should we still be allowed to return games? |
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Topic: Have Game Retailers Stolen the Consumer's Voice?
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I want a new game for the summer. Any suggestions? "YES!! You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games. Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
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I had the same problems--the game ran like shit on a system well over the recommended specs. Are you trying to go for a troll award, or what? Yeah, all those extra FPS would sure help you out a lot in the fast paced action of Sim City. Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards. --UncleJeet |
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#225 Charles Yeah, all those extra FPS would sure help you out a lot in the fast paced action of Sim City. That's not the fucking point. When the game is slowed down to a crawl, and is unplayable because you cannot control the game due to the constant slow-down, then it's not about squeezing "extra FPS." You fuckers are dense. "And I'm saying without a relationship with God and those strong convictions HE put in me I wouldn't be a 42 year old who hasn't had sex with anyone today."
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I want a new game for the summer. Any suggestions? Enter the Matrix is rather enjoyable. like a fox
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Heh "YES!! You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games. Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
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#221 by Marsh Davies What's so great about the sniping, Hugin? It seemed pretty much the same as any other game with sniping in. Zoom. Click. I didn't say it's unusual, just that that's the thing about the demo I liked. There are plenty of oppotunities to disrupt ambushes and such with sniping, plenty of places to take up a good position and pick enemies off. And the gun doesn't do anything annoying when you shoot it. Do some sniping in Enemy Territory, and then you'll see why the sniping in Breed was the best part of the demo. Oh, and if anyone else plays the demo, whatever you do, don't try to climb a ladder. You'll be sorry. |
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The funny thing is, that this behaviour is probably the root of all "whiner" problems. Kudos to 3D Realms, who have refrained from releasing demos/tech demos/alphas/whatever of their upcoming Duke Nukem Forever; the result being that there are almost no "vaporware", "this game sucks", "hahaha it's gonna take another 10 years to complete!!@!%&!" style discussions. Morn wrote this April 23, 2000. I was just surfing the archives. "YES!! You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games. Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
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The funny thing is, that this behaviour is probably the root of all "whiner" problems. Kudos to 3D Realms, who have refrained from releasing demos/tech demos/alphas/whatever of their upcoming Duke Nukem Forever; the result being that there are almost no "vaporware", "this game sucks", "hahaha it's gonna take another 10 years to complete!!@!%&!" style discussions. Morn wrote this April 23, 2000. I was just surfing the archives. "YES!! You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games. Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
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And clicking post twice, apparently. "YES!! You see people, THAT'S why he's the Vice-President of A/V Services here at Respawn Games. Yotsuya ALWAYS unleashes the fucking fury!" - Warren Marshall
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That's not the fucking point. When the game is slowed down to a crawl, and is unplayable because you cannot control the game due to the constant slow-down, then it's not about squeezing "extra FPS." You fuckers are dense. Well, if you are playing on a 486, what do you expect? Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards. --UncleJeet |
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leslie Enter the Matrix is rather enjoyable. You're a horrible human being. I'm surprised by how unimpressive the character models are, even with the graphics cranked. Combat is repetitive, movement can be quite twitchy, although "running from Agents" was one of the best "recreating the movie" feel I've seen in a license game before. I found something interesting while I fiddling around with the new graphics card today. When ETM is on Bilinear settings, the wheels on the car are somewhat octagonish, but when I put it on ansiotropic with cranked filters, they became perfect squares. While this is entirely amusing to watch, I was a little puzzled as to why this happened. Any explanations? I am a celebration of the english language.
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The octagonal shape were actually just big ass jaggies? Dooomo!
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Bailey: Probably a side effect of Shiny's special LOD technology. It's very special. Probably fucking with the settings lowered your framerate somewhat, which caused the tires to go square. Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards. --UncleJeet |
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I think you mean "special". Ah, the horrible darkness of the bread box! The slime-coated hideousness of the rarely cleaned butter tray! The shambling terror of the cold cuts!
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I think you might be special too. Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards. --UncleJeet |
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I think you mean "fecal". Bubble Bombing Fun!
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I have to side with the people slagging SimCity 4. Maybe it ran reasonably on your system (to the people defending it), just as maybe the original intro screen for Bubble Bomb ran well on your system, but on MY system (which was top of the line at the time) and many OTHER people's systems, it ran like utter shit to the point of actually being UNPLAYABLE. I have no idea how many average FPS I was getting, that's irrelevant, but attempts to scroll the view around and such would very often result in seconds-per-frame performance that is completely unacceptable in any game, whether its an action game or fuckin' solitaire. SimCity 4 was absolutely unplayable as shipped on my system, and my system was far better than even the recommended system (let alone the minimum system) on the box. I was trendy before it was trendy.
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But the car was stationary when the wheels were square... I think Foody's got a link of that somewhere. I am a celebration of the english language.
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Indeed I do. Happiness is a warm giant turtle.
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not only do I get the funky "special" wheels on EtM. But I get absolutely no textures on any of the object in the game except for the character models. I'd take the game back to the store, but I don't think usenet accepts refunds. oh my god, are you giving me cancer? stop it! stopitstopitstopit!
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Oh and, just to beat what's left of the dead horse. I think the reason most software companies don't allow refunds is because the publishers don't allow refunds. At LD, when a product is defective (or if a customer doesn't like it), we send it back to the manufacturer with a return tag explaining why it's being returned and the manufacturer reimburses LD with the cost of the product. I suspect that software publishers have no such deal with software retailers. Thus, no return policy, as the retailer is stuck with an unsaleable, defective unit. And as for returning items being to expensive: customer service is expensive. But a happy customer is a returning customer. If you piss a customer off (they might not even make any indication that they're not happy) they wont be coming back to your store. ever. oh my god, are you giving me cancer? stop it! stopitstopitstopit!
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not only do I get the funky "special" wheels on EtM. But I get absolutely no textures on any of the object in the game except for the character models. I'd take the game back to the store, but I don't think usenet accepts refunds. Well then, you definitely got what you payed for. Of course, this is only a minor technicality, as even when "properly elected" into office, a politician has as much chance of not having gotten there via corrupt means as Dubya has of spelling racecar backwards. --UncleJeet |
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And as for returning items being to expensive: customer service is expensive. But a happy customer is a returning customer. If you piss a customer off (they might not even make any indication that they're not happy) they wont be coming back to your store. ever. In some people's case (ie. yours), it doesn't matter how "happy" a developer, publisher, or retailer endeavours to make you, because you shop at Usenet. Your opinions, suggestions, and observations mean fuck all because those companies owe you less than nothing. Also, how about a little credit for your signature? like a fox
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I warezed my sig too. He sets off my Claydar.
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In some people's case (ie. yours), it doesn't matter how "happy" a developer, publisher, or retailer endeavours to make you, because you shop at Usenet. Your opinions, suggestions, and observations mean fuck all because those companies owe you less than nothing. Well, if I had bought the game and found that it had these problems, I wouldn't be able to return it. So in an effort to stamp out piracy by not accepting returns, they have driven me to piracy. And just for the record, if the game actually worked and I even somewhat enjoyed it, I'd have bought it. Also, how about a little credit for your signature? You're only just complaining about it now? oh my god, are you giving me cancer? stop it! stopitstopitstopit! --Leslie Nassar
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Gothic is a good reason why developers shouldn't try to be creative with their interface. Ctrl-Forward I'll say. Those wacky Germans. END |
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I blame all of you* for the death of PC gaming**. *not all, just the ones bitching about Simcity 4 **apologies to Marsh for ripping off his footnote shtick Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say! |
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I'm a big SimCity fan, but man SimCity 4 had some major technical fuckups. To turn a blind eye to them is just...stupid. I was trendy before it was trendy.
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I thought we were complaining about its lack of save-anywhere now. Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say! |
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No, I think we were complaining about its lack of play-anywhere. Dooomo!
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For that, you should be shot. Voices tell me I'm the shit.
<Whisp> BJB is a troll. <Whisp> Troll I say! |
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Well, if I had bought the game and found that it had these problems, I wouldn't be able to return it. Somehow I doubt the game you buy would suffer from the Usenet problem of stripped textures, stripped movies, resampled low-res art, and buggy CD-check circumvention. So in an effort to stamp out piracy by not accepting returns, they have driven me to piracy. Work that justification, baby! Aw yeah... And just for the record, if the game actually worked and I even somewhat enjoyed it, I'd have bought it. Oh, I'm sure you would have. Having downloaded, played, and completed the game, you suddenly found yourself feeling generous. So generous in fact that you go to EB and buy it. So noble! So honorable! Taking time out of your busy schedule to buy a game you've already played! If only the developers, publishers, and retailers could see outside the marketing box, they'd see you standing there, waiting for them with fists full of money... like a fox
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You're only just complaining about it now? Well I usually just skip over your posts. like a fox
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#233 Charles Well, if you are playing on a 486, what do you expect? ME, YOU ASSHAT the game ran like shit on a system well over the recommended specs "And I'm saying without a relationship with God and those strong convictions HE put in me I wouldn't be a 42 year old who hasn't had sex with anyone today."
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I quite liked the Breed demo, apart from the head bob (which according to the poll on the official forums, is probably going to be optional) With a bit of fiddling, it's possible to fly the dropship and go back to your base ship and look around. There's also a tank on the island (hidden away) that you can drive. With a bit more tweakage of script files, you can play several of the vehicles from the game. I'll reseve judgement until I play the final version, but I think it's going to be quite good. You can't derail this train of idiocy, Shadarr. Not even with a big fat cow of logic on the tracks. - Bailey
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Gothic is a fine game, and its control system is quite manageable. Anyone who says different is a neo-Nazi. |
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Is Neo-nazi the new word for rabid Matrix fanbois? <MuadDib> To a certain degree I am, come on its the internet, I can be whatever I want <Thalamasa> Except, apparently, a person of intellect
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Stick insects should be seen and not heard. |
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Covering your lawn gnome with gasoline, aiming the flamethrower. <MuadDib> To a certain degree I am, come on its the internet, I can be whatever I want <Thalamasa> Except, apparently, a person of intellect
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Mind the kangaroos on our front lawn, Mr van de Wijdeven. |
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F U C K Y O U ! Iran and N.Korea may be the axis of evil. America is the engine that makes it spin.
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Quick comment on the previous statement-eat more veggies. Documented cases of ecoli on lettuce is horrendous. We will not go into how quite alot of veggies have to be eaten to continue the proper balance of the human body as it stands today. Yes we should eat veggies. Yes we should eat meat. Both should be prepared properly as we are digestivly not our ancestors anymore(aka appendix). Dethstryk- something different? Ghostmaster. Nonsense about return policy(aka the topic) fah, I have bought many a game that I should not have. I have bought many other things I should not have. The only return I remember exactly was a soundblaster 512(?). This card was between old soundblasters and the live series. It would not work with its driver set in 4 diffrent computers running from 95-98se. When I returned it they smiled and said no problem at best buy. I got the impression this card came back alot. Someone reported MS is going with the cds that erase themselves soon. Warez forever in that case. "Do you happen to work for the redundant department of redundancy?" -Squeaky 2003-03-03 07:58:40
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Somedays I wish the hospital had a return policy. I've wanted to take my kids back many times. Ya know, the resell value on a kid is awful and the second you walk off the hospital lot they immediately depreciate about $1,000.00 bucks! The Girls of E3 The Indy 500 starts in a few hours.. There's a 3 mile backup to get into the parking area. The security is check every bag, purse and cooler as they enter the track. I'm glad I didn't go this year. I'll watch it on TV, well, I'll watch the start. I'll get the recap (crahes and winner) on the news later. Doomed! the Movie - Videogames Turn Deadly...
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leslie Having downloaded, played, and completed the game, you suddenly found yourself feeling generous. So generous in fact that you go to EB and buy it. This is probably more common an occurence than your sarky comments would believe. I've had a lot of games that I pirated before buying. I find that, in a lot of cases, a demo just doesn't excite me enough about a game. And ironically, the games that I've pirated, then purchased were jewels that didn't seem to have much replay value at all, ie Unreal and Unreal 2. Dooomo!
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I'm not so jaded than I can't use a legitimate demo as a way of knowing if I'll like the actual game. We are OK in a misguided, sadist way.
We are OK in a disabled veteran's way. We are OK. |
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#265 Ryslin Dethstryk- something different? Ghostmaster. ... what? "And I'm saying without a relationship with God and those strong convictions HE put in me I wouldn't be a 42 year old who hasn't had sex with anyone today."
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Oh, I'm sure you would have. Having downloaded, played, and completed the game, you suddenly found yourself feeling generous. So generous in fact that you go to EB and buy it. So noble! So honorable! Taking time out of your busy schedule to buy a game you've already played! If only the developers, publishers, and retailers could see outside the marketing box, they'd see you standing there, waiting for them with fists full of money... Well, I'd have played a bit of the game, and if I liked it, I'd have bought it. I've done the same thing with No One Lives Forever, GTAIII, and a couple others. oh my god, are you giving me cancer? stop it! stopitstopitstopit! --Leslie Nassar
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OT http://u1.lvcm.com/prophetm/ars/moronona1.mpg This ones for you Bailey, I kind of think you'll appreciate this face plant. (note, YEOOOWCH, someones going to be spitting teeth) Do not go gently into that good night.
Old age should burn and rage at the close of day. Rage, rage against the dying of the light. |
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Somehow I doubt the game you buy would suffer from the Usenet problem of stripped textures, stripped movies, resampled low-res art, and buggy CD-check circumvention. If you think these are real problems with warezed games, you haven't stolen anything good lately. My warezed copy of MOHAA actually ran better than the copy I bought (yes I bought it after playing the first level of the warezed version). I don't know if it was the cd protection or what, but the stolen version ran much smoother for me. He sets off my Claydar.
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That's true - warezed copy in most instances only runs better due to the paranoid safedisc not checking for the precious CD every few seconds. In those other instances, it's just a matter of waiting for the crack which properly removes the copy protection, without screwing anything in the process. Most semi-l33t users download a crack even for the games they buy. .i lu doi ringos.star. xu do puku'aroroi dunli dopecaku leni virnu li'u
.i lu go'i co'i le pamoi se morji be mi li'u |
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