hey u wanna ply a game w me?

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hey u wanna ply a game w me?
March 13th 2003, 02:27 CET by Caryn

I know a while back we discussed games on cellphones and whether or not they'd take off. I believe the general consensus was that it would never fly. But I am here to shamefully admit that I, your humble author, am getting addicted to cellphone games.

I recently bought a new phone and upgraded my AT&T wireless to include data and their fancy shmancy mMode service. I did it partly because I'm a wireless gadget freak, and mostly because it allows me to get my work email on my cellphone when I'm away from the office. But I find myself utterly addicted to playing with the internet access I have on my phone, which is surprisingly robust.

One of the many features, of course, is games. I'm not talking about Snake and other games that come standard with your cellphone, with or without internet connections. There is a whole host -- about twenty, last time I looked -- of games you can access and play on your wireless phone, and many of them are multiplayer. There's trivia games, casino games, even games that are something like speed dating. I'm currently very into a wireless multiplayer version of Tamagotchi -- I care for my pet, and I can enter him in pet shows against other cellphone players, see their pets, etc. Many of us have probably seen ads for Tony Hawk and other color graphics games on some of the next-gen Motorola phones.

So I wanted to revisit this topic and talk about a few things. Are there game concepts that you think could and possibly will fly on a cellphone? What sort of game concepts is the cellphone platform perfect for? I'd love to see what the collective Crap imagination has to offer here. And finally, has anyone else seen games in cellphones on the rise since we last talked about it?

Points docked to anyone who points out how lame I am for playing games on my cellphone because I'm already aware of it.

C O M M E N T S

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#81 by Your Friend
2003-03-13 19:27:15

I think the glasses look pretty decent, but this gargoyle shit is, without a doubt, going to speed up the fall of mankind. You think people have short attention spans now? Think they drive poorly now? Wait until they are viewing data coming off one of these HUD-glass systems every waking hour. Bleh.

2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.

#82 by Charles
2003-03-13 19:30:24

It'll be like living in a Gibson novel.

I can't wait.

FIGHTING FOR PEACE IS LIKE POSTING ON PLANETCRAP FOR INTELLIGENCE! --morn

#83 by chris
2003-03-13 19:33:37

Anyone else notice that most of Gibson's work is, you know... dystopian?

-chris

#84 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 19:34:42

It'll be like living in a Gibson novel.

I hope not. I have enough trouble relating to people as it is. It would be that much harder relating to a bunch of poorly contrived, one-dimensional character stereotypes.

#85 by Warren Marshall
2003-03-13 19:35:13

Your favorite writer sucks.

What?

#86 by Your Friend
2003-03-13 19:37:27

Dasher makes me dizzy, literally.

2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.

#87 by Dethstryk
2003-03-13 19:38:14

#75 Ergo

#73 Charles

Combine those goggles, the display, the integrated camera, with some strong computing power, say, 10-15 years down the road, and you'll be able to do some seriously cool shit with that. I want to see that stuff proliferate like mad.

Aren't we geeky enough now without all that shit??

Geeky enough isn't going to be achieved until the human brain is capable of being utilized a processor to our whimsy.

"And I'm saying without a relationship with God and those strong convictions HE put in me I wouldn't be a 42 year old who hasn't had sex with anyone today."

#88 by Bailey
2003-03-13 19:49:10

Neural implants?

I, Complainicus

#89 by Chunkstyle
2003-03-13 19:52:16

Speaking of Gibson, the first 100 pages of his new book are great. Reminds me alot of PlanetCrap.

We are the goon squad and we're coming to town. Beep beep.

#90 by Ergo
2003-03-13 19:56:08

#89 Chunkstyle

Speaking of Gibson, the first 100 pages of his new book are great. Reminds me alot of PlanetCrap.

What, it talks about marketing and warez ad nauseum?

"Folks, you can't walk into a bar holding a porcupine, set it on fire and expect to make liquorice!" --Dana Carvey as Ross Perot

DVDs

#91 by Xero
2003-03-13 19:58:09

#89 Chunkstyle

Speaking of Gibson, the first 100 pages of his new book are great. Reminds me alot of PlanetCrap.

I have it sitting on a shelf at home haven't had a chance to read it.

'Night has fallen and the barbarians have not come.

#92 by Charles
2003-03-13 19:58:23

Marketing, yes. Warez, notsomuch.

FIGHTING FOR PEACE IS LIKE POSTING ON PLANETCRAP FOR INTELLIGENCE! --morn

#93 by Chunkstyle
2003-03-13 19:58:28

Actually it does talk about marketing alot, and the main character frequents an online forum.

We are the goon squad and we're coming to town. Beep beep.

#94 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 20:03:33

Right, so anyway about cell phone games... I think the thing game developers working on cell phone games have to remember is that the vast majority of their market are not gamers. They are people who need a cell phone for other reasons, and the fact that it plays games is a minor perk. Therefor games like Doom are a dumb idea, because no one who plays today's FPSs is going to shell out $500 so they can play a 10 year old game on a tiny little screen. Simple, addictive games that can be played in 5 and 10 minute intervals will do much better.

Personally, I don't need a cellphone. But if I did get one, I'd rather have the smallest phone I can find that does nothing but phoning. I would rather have a tiny phone, a PDA, and a GBA all separate than one device that does each thing poorly.

#95 by Petri Jarvilehto
2003-03-13 20:10:34

#62 by Caryn

So because of both the ease and the cheap price, I'm quite amenable to paying for a single game on my cell phone for a month. Hell, maybe two. It's only $2 to play for a month. You just can't beat that price. So I think that in this regard, cell phone companies have a leg up on everyone else when it comes to getting people to pay to play your games.

I'm curious to know if that makes it profitable for the companies that make them.

At least all the people that I know that are working on cell phone games are saying that the money is really tight, but that a small (2-3 guys) outfit can make a living writing games for the phones. I don't think that the situation will change anytime soon (I'm really sceptic about 3G stuff saving the day).

#80 by Bailey

The conversation was about space delivery games at the time. That's all. Why must you be so aggressive and bitter towards me? Words hurt, Petri. Words... hurt.

Umm... ok.

#96 by CheesyPoof
2003-03-13 20:10:45

I have it sitting on a shelf at home haven't had a chance to read it.

Well Xero, take 20 seconds to read the damn book and tell us if it really is like PC. Also, give a synopsis. Thanks.

#97 by Petri Jarvilehto
2003-03-13 20:13:35

#93 by Chunkstyle

Actually it does talk about marketing alot, and the main character frequents an online forum.

So, I'm guessing Gibson is Dingleberry?

#98 by Xero
2003-03-13 20:21:52

#96 CheesyPoof

I have it sitting on a shelf at home haven't had a chance to read it.

Well Xero, take 20 seconds to read the damn book and tell us if it really is like PC. Also, give a synopsis. Thanks.

Heh, very funny. While speed reading hack authors saves me time, with people I like I generally extend the process as much as possible. I can probably make that Gibson book last a couple of days if I try.

'Night has fallen and the barbarians have not come.

#99 by Post-It
2003-03-13 20:22:22

Actually, I thought of PC when I read the book as well. It was kind of weird in a way. What struck me as odd is that Pattern Recognition is set in the fall of 2002. I'm not sure what it means when Gibson feels as though the real world has caught up with his visions of the future.

Comment Signature

#100 by Post-It
2003-03-13 20:49:34

Also, Gibson shed alot of light (for me at least) about the end of Neuromancer in his blog today.

Comment Signature

#101 by Caryn
2003-03-13 20:52:40

#94 Shadarr

I think the thing game developers working on cell phone games have to remember is that the vast majority of their market are not gamers. They are people who need a cell phone for other reasons, and the fact that it plays games is a minor perk.

Eh, I don't know about that. I'm totally armchairing it here, but I get the sense that the people currently buying the latest and greatest cellphones are Gen Y late teens/early twenties who use their phone for many things besides calling and who are more concerned about how their phones look rather than how well they get calls.

Personally, I don't need a cellphone. But if I did get one, I'd rather have the smallest phone I can find that does nothing but phoning. I would rather have a tiny phone, a PDA, and a GBA all separate than one device that does each thing poorly.

I prefer my GBA for gaming, but I've decided I'm willing to sacrifice full PDA functionality in order to reduce the number of devices I carry in my purse down to one, my cellphone. Hence why I got AT&T's next-gen service where I can get all my email on my phone, sync it with Outlook to get my calendar and contacts on it, and access the internet from it. The only thing I use my PDA for now is to carry Word and Excel docs around with me (and work on them) without carrying paper, and my task list if I need it (one thing I wish my phone synced with but doesn't), and so I only carry it around when necessary.

"That's an interesting viewpoint supported by many factual references, but you failed to note that I really don't care." - Bailey

#102 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 21:05:59

I think the ideal would be a full featured PDA with a wireless earpiece and microphone so you can call people without holding your PDA up to your face. This makes more sense to me than taking current cell technology and trying to turn it into a PDA.

I think you're right that the people getting the bleeding edge game-capable cellphones are doing it for the geek chic. However, they are not enough of a market to be worth targetting in my opinion. When you have a game that appeals to the real estate agents and investment bankers of the world, then you're selling to a much larger market.

#103 by Bailey
2003-03-13 21:32:48

Petri

Umm... ok.

I'm guessing sarcasm doesn't translate well into finnish.

I, Complainicus

#104 by Leslie Nassar
2003-03-13 22:00:20

I think you're right that the people getting the bleeding edge game-capable cellphones are doing it for the geek chic.

Only in the US. Everywhere else in the world phones are fashion. Kids are switching out phones up to three times a year in Japan and Europe.

However, they are not enough of a market to be worth targetting in my opinion.

There are 140 million cellphone users in the US, 320 million in Europe, 34 million in Africa, and god-knows how many in Asia.

When you have a game that appeals to the real estate agents and investment bankers of the world, then you're selling to a much larger market.

Welcome to 2003. Cellphones haven't been the exclusive domain of the rich and powerful for 10 years.

#105 by Bailey
2003-03-13 22:05:11

Though I do miss those eight-pound beauties with the giant wobbly antennas.

I, Complainicus

#106 by Charles
2003-03-13 22:07:29

I was just talking the other day about the amazing proliferation of cellphones. 10 years ago you might know someone with a carphone. Someone in an important job might have had one of those big oldies. Nowadays, you can't look outside without seeing at least one person talking on a cellphone, and most likely, you'll see more.

FIGHTING FOR PEACE IS LIKE POSTING ON PLANETCRAP FOR INTELLIGENCE! --morn

#107 by Bailey
2003-03-13 22:10:40

I miss the cell phones with the two mini zipguns hidden inside them. They were the only useful ones.

I, Complainicus

#108 by Matt Davis
2003-03-13 22:11:34

There are more mobile phones than people in the UK. Thanks to people having a phone for work and phone for personal use.

I've had three mobiles this year already (Sony Z5, Samsung T100, SonyEricsson T68i) and I'm already looking at getting the new SonyEricsson T610 or P800, each one surpasses the next a little in features and what I can do with it.

Another interesting fact I found out earlier this week was that there are no longer any pager networks being operated by our four mobile telcos, and they've infact been off for over a year.

<jafd> Dating an older woman is probably a lot like running Linux, really.
<jafd> Lots of maintenance, resulting in rewards, that you could have gotten a lot easier elsewhere, if only you knew how.

#109 by CheesyPoof
2003-03-13 22:14:04

I got my first (and only) cell phone on 12/31/1999. It still works, why upgrade?

#110 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 22:17:54

Okay, it was a bad example but the point still stands. There are a hell of a lot of people who have a cell and aren't gamers. They aren't going to want to play Doom, or GTA, or even Golden Sun. They aren't going to sit down and play the same game for two or three hours straight (for one thing, their batteries will probably die long before then).

Game developers tend to be hardcore gamers, which is why there are so many FPS clones even though it's a niche market. They are going to have to learn to make games that fit their new market, who are mostly not gamers at all let alone hardcore, rather than porting games that work on the PC and Playstation to the smaller screen and limited controls of a cell. Gamers aren't going to buy a cellphone to play a fugly port of Doom on the bus, except the ultra-hardcore who will do it just because they can, like the people who port Linux to anything with a processor. The types of games that rule the PC market are going to rule the cell market. Things like the Sims and EQ, only reworked so they are fun to play for short periods.

#111 by Charles
2003-03-13 22:18:50

That's what makes the market so different for electronics between here and asia. Here people are sticklers for the concept of value, where in Asia people would rather have the latest greatest features.

FIGHTING FOR PEACE IS LIKE POSTING ON PLANETCRAP FOR INTELLIGENCE! --morn

#112 by Matt Davis
2003-03-13 22:19:28

Because things like WAP and GPRS make my life easier (I can book cinema tickets on my phone in 5 clicks, which is less presses than dialling a number).

Colour screens and picture messaging are fun extras and you always have a camera on you, you can send the pictures instantly to friends who live the other side of the world by email, without having to plug it into a computer.

Bluetooth has made a real difference to my phone usage, I don't even need to take my phone out of my pocket anymore (except to charge it once a week), I have a bluetooth headset, and my home and work computers display on-screen whos calling (with take call/hangup) and any text messages I get (and I can reply using the computer too).

<jafd> Dating an older woman is probably a lot like running Linux, really.
<jafd> Lots of maintenance, resulting in rewards, that you could have gotten a lot easier elsewhere, if only you knew how.

#113 by Leslie Nassar
2003-03-13 22:24:35

That's what makes the market so different for electronics between here and asia. Here people are sticklers for the concept of value

Are you sure about that? Take a look out of your window and start counting 12-mpg SUVs.

#114 by Matt Davis
2003-03-13 22:25:26

Shadarr,

Thats not where mobile gaming is currently headed, most of the games that are currently being developed are by groups of one-two people who make the game at home in their spare time, over the next six months as java games really take mass-consumer hold (because most phones on free handset upgrades here are java now) you'll see more of these hit the actual networks, and the networks will love them as they're cheap to rent from the makers, have very low overheads and are low risk financially.

Games such as splinter cell are rarities, what you have to understand though is that the splinter cell java game is more like impossible mission in stealth than a 3D game. Did you also know that you can get Text Messaging Splinter Cell?

<crawl>

<knife>

<scale wall>

Exciting huh?

<jafd> Dating an older woman is probably a lot like running Linux, really.
<jafd> Lots of maintenance, resulting in rewards, that you could have gotten a lot easier elsewhere, if only you knew how.

#115 by Charles
2003-03-13 22:26:52

Are you sure about that? Take a look out of your window and start counting 12-mpg SUVs.

Hey man, there is a difference between wanting value and being patriotic, and you should know by now which one is more important!

FIGHTING FOR PEACE IS LIKE POSTING ON PLANETCRAP FOR INTELLIGENCE! --morn

#116 by Caryn
2003-03-13 22:30:42

#110 Shadarr

Game developers tend to be hardcore gamers, which is why there are so many FPS clones even though it's a niche market. They are going to have to learn to make games that fit their new market, who are mostly not gamers at all let alone hardcore, rather than porting games that work on the PC and Playstation to the smaller screen and limited controls of a cell.

But how many PC or console game developers are making cellphone games right now or even plan to? Publishers might be getting into that, but the current crop of game developers that we talk about here are not. Look at the names I mentioned earlier: Wirelessgames, PicoFun, Mobliss. These are companies that are likely focused on only making these small, easy-to-play games for the cellphone. They're not making DOOM or Tony Hawk. And I think because of that, they stand a good chance of being successful at it and actually turning a profit.

And the publishers we talk about might not even care about this. The phone companies can just buy the games directly from the developer. There's nothing to publish to.

"That's an interesting viewpoint supported by many factual references, but you failed to note that I really don't care." - Bailey

#117 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 22:35:01

<crawl>

<knife>

<scale wall>

Exciting huh?

Dear god. I seriously hope they just did that on a lark because it was easy.

Is the platform open? Like in the case of these two-man hobby games, can they just put it up on the web and have people download and play it, or do they have to work out a deal with one or more cell networks and have it be an official product?

#118 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 22:36:29

There's nothing to publish to.

That's a good point. Whether they want in or not, the publishers are probably going to be totally cut out of this market, and I'm pretty sure that's a good thing.

#119 by Leslie Nassar
2003-03-13 22:39:18

Whether they want in or not, the publishers are probably going to be totally cut out of this market, and I'm pretty sure that's a good thing.

It's a good thing because now developers have no-one to blame but themselves when shit goes wrong.

#120 by Charles
2003-03-13 22:42:32

Trust me, they'll find someone to blame.

Remember Deathrow on xbox?

FIGHTING FOR PEACE IS LIKE POSTING ON PLANETCRAP FOR INTELLIGENCE! --morn

#121 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 22:43:49

I remember hearing about it, but it sounds like there is some juicey gossip I didn't hear.

#122 by Matt Davis
2003-03-13 22:46:18

Shadarr,

It costs 15 cents a text message that you send.

Text games are currently big money, $10m a year for a single network with a good coverage of text message games (I'm currently working on the updated pages for this site and we're adding some 50 news games for Text/WAP/Java and a significantly large number of other mobile services).

The most popular? Virtual Pets and Virtual Flirt. Why? because they both text you back at regular intervals, and remember you pay 15cents per text you send.

<jafd> Dating an older woman is probably a lot like running Linux, really.
<jafd> Lots of maintenance, resulting in rewards, that you could have gotten a lot easier elsewhere, if only you knew how.

#123 by TheTrunkDr.
2003-03-13 22:46:25

Everywhere else in the world phones are fashion. Kids are switching out phones up to three times a year in Japan and Europe.

I don't know about Europe, but in Japan and China cell phones (and electronics in general) are rediculously cheap compared to how much they cost in north america, not to mention the problems with the cell networks in the states compared to everywhere else. Also regular phones are quite cheap both the phones and service in north america, my understanding is that in much of Europe regular phone service is quite expensive I've heard that in many places cell phone service is the same if not cheaper and available everywhere. If cell phone service was on par with regular phone service there'd probably be a ton more in north americe, but it's still more ecconomical (and reliable) to have POTS.

Sure, it might happen in some fantasy land like Canada or Holland, but not in the real world. - Shadarr

#124 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 22:51:38

Why? because they both text you back at regular intervals, and remember you pay 15cents per text you send.

Sounds like the UO model is alive and well.

In other news, this sounds like exactly what I would want in a cell phone. Let everything else use Bluetooth to connect through the hub. Rather than a hybrid PDA phone, have a wireless headset phone like Matt's and an internet enabled PDA, both using the same gateway. Slick.

#125 by Ergo
2003-03-13 22:54:18

Another cell phone discussion! PC will never let me down.

"Folks, you can't walk into a bar holding a porcupine, set it on fire and expect to make liquorice!" --Dana Carvey as Ross Perot

DVDs

#126 by CheesyPoof
2003-03-13 22:55:09

Well, it's kinda on topic.

#127 by Ergo
2003-03-13 22:57:11

Don't shatter my illusions, damn you!!!

"Folks, you can't walk into a bar holding a porcupine, set it on fire and expect to make liquorice!" --Dana Carvey as Ross Perot

DVDs

#128 by Shadarr
2003-03-13 23:03:30

Ergo,

I'm sorry I un-hijacked the discussion about William Gibson's gay new book.

#129 by None-1a
2003-03-14 00:40:55

#110 by Shadarr

Shadarr a lot of what's being turned out now isn't trying to fit a new market for games. Rather it's trying to push cell phones to the gen y teens who are seen as gamers. Nobody really cares if people will play tony hawk, splinter cell, or atari classics (ports or clones) as long as the kids get their butts down to the stores to sign up for the service.

#130 by Bailey
2003-03-14 00:46:32

People who say "Gen Y" in casual conversation incite mt to punch them in their faces. Thought not as much as Pepsi marketers who came up with that slobberingly stupid "Generation Next".

I, Complainicus

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