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Kick the Head! KICK IT!!!
January 31st 2003, 20:40 CET by Caryn No, this isn't about censorship. No, it's not about ratings. But is about personal limits in video games. Foul Mag has posted up some video footage of Postal 2. I watched, and something occured to me that surprised me: I was actually really disgusted by what I saw. I'm one of those people that aren't bothered by violence in video games, even somewhat gratuitous violence. I'm a very vocal proponent of parental responsibility in games -- it's not the developer's job, beyond providing an option, perhaps, to turn off the gore, to police your kids. But watching the Postal 2 video really got my stomach twisted. I realized while watching it that I really DO have limits as to what I can personally take in a video game, whether it's violence or sex or any other kind of content, and that Postal 2 definitely goes beyond my own limits. I wouldn't presume to place those limits on someone else, but it did get me wondering: do any of you have limits as to how much violence or sexual content you can take in a game, or does it all fall under the umbrella of "it's just a game"? |
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Topic: Kick the Head! KICK IT!!!
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I'm glad I never managed to get a job in the US. Very very glad. It's really not so bad here. As a result of the 70 drug usage, the 80's spawned drug wars, which made many places not so nice. NYC was one of those places. As the wars died down, it's gotten much better. If you look at murder statistics, in the 80's they were through the roof. They've gone down over 50%, IIRC, here, and more over the rest of the country. However, that being said, with the upcoming depression, we may roll right back into the environment that made the 80's so bad. Funk. An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup. ~Henry L. Mencken
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On TV, people leave the keys in the ignition and the door unlocked. Not to make any sort of statement, but to avoid wasting screen time on irrelevant action. |
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it's not ripping off, it's 'cultural influence' :P Oh, like how Disney was "culturally influenced" by Osamu Tezuka's The Jungle Emperor for The Lion King? |
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Charles: I'm glad I never managed to get a job in the US. Yes, because everyone here goes on random killing sprees. Really, I doubt the US as a whole is much different than Canada with respect to crime. Big cities are different, sure. There are more big cities in the US. But small town crime isn't all that pervasive. Like people were saying earlier, I don't lock my door unless I'm leaving or going to sleep. It's all relative, and if you want to stereotype, that's your problem. BEWARE THE CTHULU MOLE!
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Well, I think it had more to do with where I'd most likely have been located. I'm not making blanket statements, it's just that it would have been likely to end up in or near a larger city. "People who give John Edwards money are stupid, and you're stupid for defending them, stupid." -- Your Friend |
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The first game that made me feel at all uncomfortable was Max Payne, not because it was particularly gory or graphic, but because the main character had absolutely no justification in what he was doing. His wife and sprog get wasted so he proceeds to wipe out several thousand mafioso, not out of revenge but because he's a batshit loony. You can argue that he's supposed to be an anti-hero or that it gets conveniently explained at the end, but it still irked me. "I'm very sorry for your loss, your mother was a terribly attractive woman"
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Eric T. Cheng: I was being sarcastic, of course. but then again, every story is always influenced or inspired by another story, both textually or visually. If you'd be really nitpicky you can tie just about any story in the world to the bible, koran or tora, or whichever holy scripture belongs with the religion of the storywriter. "Since most elephants don't comply with the AGP 2.0 specification, we recommend that God does a product recall on all elephants"
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Sounds like you guys need new personae. By day, they are mild-mannered Xero and Funkdrunk - normal, average PlanetCrap regulars whom no one would give a second glance. But when terror strikes the streets of New York, when young punks try to roll over on you, they become... CRAZY BOOK GUY AND INVISIBLE BOYEE!!!! Together, they roam the backstreets and alleyways of Hollis, fighting crime and couriering computer parts. Everyday folk can rest easy, knowing that these two fine upstanding citizens are taking names and typing flames. |
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Only to have it ripped off by Reservoir Dogs (aka Chow Yun Fat's 1987's City on Fire), The Matrix and Kill Bill. Oh, like how Disney was "culturally influenced" by Osamu Tezuka's The Jungle Emperor for The Lion King? Who wants to guess Eric's ethnicity? |
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I was being sarcastic too. But 1994 The Lion King was a direct rip off of 1965 The Jungle Emperor (which even Matthew Broderick, thought Disney was making a remake of it, when he was doing the voice for Kimba...I mean Simba). The estate for Tezuka didn't want any monetary compensation just a credit in the movie, to which Disney wouldn't even do. |
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Who wants to guess Eric's ethnicity? I'll give you a hint... I'm not Japanese. :P |
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Eric is Canadian. "Is the internet making people less intelligent?"
"You mean like how video cameras cause thrown objects to hit men in the crotch?" |
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Oh, like how Disney was "culturally influenced" by Osamu Tezuka's The Jungle Emperor for The Lion King? You know why his estate never sued over The Lion King? Osamu Tezuka was a Disney fanboi. Bambi was his favorite movie. He admitted openly and loudly that his stuff was all extremely "culturally influenced" by Disney, particularly Bambi. From the 'big eyes' to the animation style. So what goes around comes around, eh? Disney's real sin is in having a corporate line of "no, our animators never saw Kimba the White Lion". The actual act of using the influence was fine. 2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.
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Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah Crazy Book Guy. Zap! Pow!, Crash! Remember to follow the continuing adventures of Crazy Book Guy and Invisible Boyee every thursday night on your local Westinghouse station. This is your announcer Monty Ssabmudasi signing off! Since the work of John von Neumann, "games" have been a scientific metaphor for a much wider range of human interactions in which the outcomes depend on the interactive strategies of two or more persons, who have opposed or at best mixed motives - Game Theory by Roger McCain
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Who wants to guess Eric's ethnicity? the fact that he's chinese just means he's probably been in touch with asian cinema a lot more and longer than most of us whiteys. because I have a lot of chinese friends, I also saw more HK movies than the average dutchy, and I find it really stupid that people say The Matrix was all innovative, when the exact same thing had been done a million times before. "Since most elephants don't comply with the AGP 2.0 specification, we recommend that God does a product recall on all elephants"
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Xero: Good Lord, man, you've earned my respect. I thought I'd seen some violence in my life but every so often you forget that there really are neighborhoods out there just like you see in the movies, and that there are real people being affected by them. "I felt that I was inhabiting some kind of interdimensional nexus where the sum total suck from this and all other universes crossed paths." - Terata
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because I have a lot of chinese friends, I also saw more HK movies than the average dutchy, and I find it really stupid that people say The Matrix was all innovative, when the exact same thing had been done a million times before. If you don't see it, it doesn't exist. This is how things are when it comes to mass marketing. Maybe some small HK movies had done what the Matrix did already, but since nobody saw them, who cares? A tree falling in the forest and all that. |
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Cool Caryn, I apologize for the unintentional hijack. Like Funk says its gotten a lot better since the 80's. the 80's were really bad. And my brother and his wife bought a house in a really nice neighborhood, Cherry Hill, NJ awesome place. Nope not London, Ontario but rather London, England. : ) Since the work of John von Neumann, "games" have been a scientific metaphor for a much wider range of human interactions in which the outcomes depend on the interactive strategies of two or more persons, who have opposed or at best mixed motives - Game Theory by Roger McCain
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do any of you have limits as to how much violence or sexual content you can take in a game, or does it all fall under the umbrella of "it's just a game"? There are no limits. Having said that, you know, me, personally... I've got a place in my life for urine. And emblazoned upon my monitor just isn't it. The peeing on the corpses... that's no different, not one jot, that strolling up to a shield generator in Jedi Knight 2 or a medbot in Deus Ex. It doesn't matter if the act of urination grants a game reward, as the pathetic Duke Nukem offered. Whether walking up to a corpse and pushing the space bar gives you an extra 50 health, or 50 shields, or simply an allegedly entertaining animation -- functionally identical. Now, if there's compelling gameplay, and reasonably worthy production values, hey, you've got my attention. You're well on your way to getting my dollar. If you're anally impaling animals in order to create some kind of super-weapon, that's where I have to part company. Now, I like the idea of sticking wires into my skull and shooting cyber-lightning out of nostrils. You know, that's just me. I'm not really in favor of sticking wires into the skulls of animals and then blowing them up while they scream. If the kitty was your cunning ally who asked you to smash the rifle muzzle up his ass, you know, for a cause, I could easily accept that. There's basically no place for rape in any game. I mean, unless it's really classy rape. I mean, cat rape? RAISE THE BAR, FUCKOS. There's a big leap from looking at the sun to making a hydrogen bomb. In between, you just go blind.
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Warren any word on when Epic's Bonus Pack will be released? Since the work of John von Neumann, "games" have been a scientific metaphor for a much wider range of human interactions in which the outcomes depend on the interactive strategies of two or more persons, who have opposed or at best mixed motives - Game Theory by Roger McCain
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Xero, 1. I work 5 minutes from Cherry Hill (Mount Laurel) 2. The bonus pack was just released. Check your favorite sites for it. BEWARE THE CTHULU MOLE!
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When we first came to the US, we wrote down a list of cities we'd never live in or near. One of the only decent cities left was Seattle. So, here I am! Lol hi =]
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Greg DE's bonus pack was just released. The Epic one is still in testing/development. |
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Eric, you should be happy that films like The Matrix exist--they helped a lot of folks discover Asian cinema (myself included). |
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Warren, My apologies. I didn't know there were two separate bonus packs in the works. Now I know! BEWARE THE CTHULU MOLE!
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Jafd, I agree with a lot of what you said, and that really weirds me out. |
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I would like to add that I had no problem with the killing of the virtual children. There's a big leap from looking at the sun to making a hydrogen bomb. In between, you just go blind.
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Cool I love that place, I work in Hoboken myself. The Digital Extremes pack comes out today, but Epic is also supposedly working on a Bonus Pack. Best game support for any game, evar. Since the work of John von Neumann, "games" have been a scientific metaphor for a much wider range of human interactions in which the outcomes depend on the interactive strategies of two or more persons, who have opposed or at best mixed motives - Game Theory by Roger McCain
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The difference between The Matrix and most HK cinema for me is that in The Matrix the over-the-top wire-fu works because it neatly fits into the plot of living within the machine with bendable rules. When I see similar crazy moves pulled off in movies that for all outward appearances are supposed to take place in our current known universe, it really turns me off. It worked for me in CTHD, because the direction and setting suggested an epic fantasy story. But the same sort of thing done in a modern setting? I just can't suspend my disbelief enough. 2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.
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anally impaling animals in order to create some kind of super-weapon 'mischevious' was the only word I could find for that. "Since most elephants don't comply with the AGP 2.0 specification, we recommend that God does a product recall on all elephants"
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If you're anally impaling animals in order to create some kind of super-weapon, that's where I have to part company. Understatement of the year. The cat on the end of the gun made me bite my lower lip, it was so inappropriate I didn't even know what the hell to think. Lol hi =]
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I would like to add that I had no problem with the killing of the virtual children. Quit it! It's like you're plagarising things I haven't said yet. |
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Yeah, Warren, I'm kind of curious how you can afford to give away stuff for free. 'd offer up a brick to the back of your head boy, if I were Cain.
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I won't kill women or children even in a game. I will kill small animals though. Since the work of John von Neumann, "games" have been a scientific metaphor for a much wider range of human interactions in which the outcomes depend on the interactive strategies of two or more persons, who have opposed or at best mixed motives - Game Theory by Roger McCain
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mgns Yeah, Warren, I'm kind of curious how you can afford to give away stuff for free Don't say that too loud. They may figure out they they're not supposed to. Funk. An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup. ~Henry L. Mencken
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it was so inappropriate I didn't even know what the hell to think. Must be art then. There's a big leap from looking at the sun to making a hydrogen bomb. In between, you just go blind.
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The cat on the end of the gun made me bite my lower lip, it was so inappropriate I didn't even know what the hell to think. It made me think about buying some Insane Clown Posse CDs and doing some backyard wrestling. <smartandfunnysig>. .</smartandfunnysig>
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Well, The Matrix isn't what really got me into Asian cinema--The Killer and Hard Boiled are resonsible for that. What I meant to say is that I know many people who saw The Matrix were interested in seeing Asian flicks that I had been suggesting. As for YF's difficulty in suspending disblief, all I can say is, "Sorry, but you're missing out on the fun." |
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mgns: Simple, just factor the cost of the bonus packs into the development costs up front. Employees need something to do in-between projects. And having new content keeps players interested and can help gain new customers. BEWARE THE CTHULU MOLE!
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Your Friend: You know why his estate never sued over The Lion King? Osamu Tezuka was a Disney fanboi. Bambi was his favorite movie. He admitted openly and loudly that his stuff was all extremely "culturally influenced" by Disney, particularly Bambi. From the 'big eyes' to the animation style. So what goes around comes around, eh? Disney's real sin is in having a corporate line of "no, our animators never saw Kimba the White Lion". The actual act of using the influence was fine. There's nothing wrong with being influenced/inspired. Quentin Tarantino and the Wachowski brothers openly admit they're heavily influenced by the Hong Kong action/kung fu movies (and anime/manga as well for the brothers). The difference, like you said, Disney had the air of arrogance by saying they weren't influenced at all by Tezuka and everything done for The Lion King was original. |
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Yeah, Warren, I'm kind of curious how you can afford to give away stuff for free. The investment of time and resources now pays off in the long run. Happy fans = good word of mouth. I won't say the "M" word for fear of upsetting Matthew, but you know what I mean. Plus, let's face it, it's fun to make new stuff ... |
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I won't kill women or children even in a game. I will kill small animals though. What about women or children cosplay in small animal costumes? |
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Eric, when the people making the film say in thier interviews "We love Hong Kong Cinema, the movie's style is taken from it and comic books and anime.", and go and hire Yuen Wo Ping to choreograph the fight scenes, I don't think that's a ripoff. |
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So, do either of these bonus packs include voting or anti-spam widgets? "Is the internet making people less intelligent?"
"You mean like how video cameras cause thrown objects to hit men in the crotch?" |
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I won't say the "M" word for fear of upsetting Matthew, but you know what I mean. "Moroms"? "Mildew"? "Miami"? |
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Eric You werent around for the Marketing wars of 2000-2001. Be glad. Funk. An idealist is one who, on noticing that roses smell better than a cabbage, concludes that it will also make better soup. ~Henry L. Mencken
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Eric I grew up with the old Shaw Brothers, Golden Harvest, Toie stuff. Later on I got into the more mature stuff like City on Fire and Bullet in the Head. Plus there's Red Sorghum, Eat Drink Man Woman, My Concubine, Emperor and the Assassin and the Story of X....... I always forget her name. Oh yeah from Akira Kurosawa theres Dersu Uzala, if you get a chance you must see that flick. On another note I remember the first time I saw Manon of the Spring and the prequel with Gerard Depardieu whose name I can never remember. Since the work of John von Neumann, "games" have been a scientific metaphor for a much wider range of human interactions in which the outcomes depend on the interactive strategies of two or more persons, who have opposed or at best mixed motives - Game Theory by Roger McCain
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Eric, when the people making the film say in thier interviews "We love Hong Kong Cinema, the movie's style is taken from it and comic books and anime.", and go and hire Yuen Wo Ping to choreograph the fight scenes, I don't think that's a ripoff. Dammit, "rip off" was a bit too strong but I was being sarcastic. Okay, I'm going to start using smilies from now on. Otherwise, treat all my comments with a [sarcasm] tag. Yes, I love The Matrix, Resevoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction (I didn't see Jackie Brown), Charlie's Angels, and am looking forward to Kill Bill because they're heavily influenced by Hong Kong action cinema. I take those films any day over those horrid "Bad Guys lining up to take a beating" Van Damme/Seagal movies... |
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That was the sequel to Jean de Florette Xero. And I grew up in Germantown Philadelphia, and had to go through North Philadelphia daily. Crack turned it into Beirut for a while. And yeah, most of the guys I played with as little kids were dead or in jail by the time I was off to college. |
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I always forget her name Gong Li? As far as I know she wasn't in Eat Drink Man Woman though. 2000/XP is better than Win9x in every way.
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