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What's the Franko, Botcho?
January 19th 2003, 14:19 CET by deadlock I have been a regular at PlanetCrap for a number of years now. In that time, we have discussed many many many wonderful things. Again and again, over and over, ad nauseum. However, one of the more interesting subjects that we touch on is the capacity of modern computer games for telling a compelling, interesting tale. With, like, proper character development and shit. I think we can all agree that games up until now have been largely devoid of any real depth. Storylines tend to be simplistic, characters one-dimensional and thematic variation very thin on the ground, the latter generally revolving around some kind of future dystopia. Or Nazi monster chicks in leather. I think we can also agree that games have a capacity to be so much more. What I would like for us to do in this thread is explore videogames as a medium for story-telling. Here are a few questions to kick things off... What are designers doing right? In this category, you've got Deus Ex, Anachronox, the Metal Gear Solid games, any number of RPGs etc. None of these games are perfect examples - Deus Ex, for example is set in a pretty much cookie-cutter future dystopia, albeit a very well realised one, thanks to the huge amount of background story that was added. The Denton brothers aren't the most multi-dimensional characters either; though you could argue that, in the case of JC, that's a good thing since it lets the player impose more of their own personality on the game. What are they doing wrong? Do I really need to expand on this? Duke Nukem? Quake? Almost every game ever created? Finally, Do we even want games with deep, meaningful plots? The aforementioned Duke Nukem and Quake didn't exactly suffer, gameplay-wise, because of a lack of meaningful plot or deep characters. People remember Half-Life's plot as being a lot better than it was, thanks to the fact that it didn't give you a lot of time to actually think about it. Ico, my current obsession, is beautiful in it's simplicity, both aesthetically and plotwise. So, over to you - agree with what I've said here? Disagree? How much importance do you attribute to a game's plot? |
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Topic: What's the Franko, Botcho?
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The interesting part of RAD's software renderer is how feature filled it is. It's easily the best looking software renderer I've ever seen, and it supports some features that would need a GF3 if you were to hardware accelerate them. Also, the software renderer comes in handy when you realize that a lot of new purchased computers (Joe Compaq machines) have a decent processor, but practically nothing for a videocard. "People who give John Edwards money are stupid, and you're stupid for defending them, stupid." -- Your Friend |
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Scott's mentioning how important it is to make a marketable character, and I have to agree. But I don't think it should be limited at that. Have a marketable gameplay experience. I mean, I'd play a Duke game that starred someone else, because I know I'd enjoy the gameplay mechanics of a Duke title. |
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I mean, I'd play a Duke game that starred someone else, because I know I'd enjoy the gameplay mechanics of a Duke title What about Ash "Come Get Some" Williams? |
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I, in fact, would be MORE inclined to play a duke nukem game that didn't star duke nukem. I hate the character. I understand why he's marketable, I understand why 3D Realms uses him... I will probably even put up with him to play DNF because I think the gameplay will be really good. But it doesn't change the fact that just about any other character would sell me more on the game. -chris |
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Yeah, exactly. Duke isn't original in any way, especially considering that most of his characteristics are directly lifted from other, more well-done characters. Give me a Duke game with an original character, and I'll like it even more. |
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A game that doesn't star the main character? I played that.. it was called Metal Gear Solid 2. |
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The Submission Bin is clogged up with something. Anyone have a plunger? Never tell the truth to people who are not worthy of it.
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I agree with FoodBunny, let's slap a vagina onto everything. Perhaps then I'll have much bigger chances of getting laid. Besides, I wonder what Duke would be like with a vagina. Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration. "I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming March 19 (Wang Wednesday) |
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A Duchess? |
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Yes, that would bring new meaning to "Come get some!" Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration. "I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming March 19 (Wang Wednesday) |
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I was accually paying attention and reading this thread till Jokers post. I am now crawling under my desk and screaming in tounges about how horrid the world is. Thank you Joker for accually being WORSE than my boyfriend at those sorts of statements. /me runs and hides now NO!
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Joker is always worse. |
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Better him than me. |
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Serves everyone right for straying into DNF marketing territory. |
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#152 by Ryslin Thank you Joker for accually being WORSE than my boyfriend at those sorts of statements. You have a boyfriend who is to some significant fraction similar to Joker? Ew. |
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That must give joker some hope. |
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I won the lotto last night on the way back from Idaho. |
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I need a couple hundred more for my plane ticket to Australia. Hook me up? |
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I only won $4. And the ticket cost me $1. |
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Alright, three bucks is better than nothing. Paypal sound good? |
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Uh-oh, you're a bad little Mormon. What's next, drinking non-decaf coffee?! |
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I really need to try some kind of internet-based musican throw-change-into-my-paypal-account shit. |
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You mean Duke doesn't already have a vagina? |
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Uh-oh, you're a bad little Mormon. What's next, drinking non-decaf coffee?! You're right, maybe I should donate it to a charity to get rid of the bad karma. And coffee tastes like vomit to me, so there's no danger of that happening. |
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A vomit connoisseur, huh? Put on your two step shoes, lose the blues and dance like it's year zero.
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You have the cow vomit, the horse vomit, the 10 vodkas and a pack of cigarettes vomit. Coffee is definately way down there on the vomit taste list. |
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10 vodkas? I wasn't aware they doubled as imperical measuring amounts. Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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Only when the vodkas themselves are double. |
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God, just... just walk away from the english language forever. Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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On a sidenote: comedy games have been done (well) imo: adventures. Take Larry, or any lucasart adventure. Too bad it all got stuck on implementing original gameplay. *sigh*
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USB ports are great, but just because I plug my Sidewinder into a different one than normal doesn't mean Windows should think it's a completely new device and reinstall drivers. |
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Says you. |
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There are games with good plot! If you had played some good adventures you would have known! Now you go and play Gabriel Knight, Grim Fandango, Syberia, The Longest Journey, Broken Sword, The Lost Files of Sherlock Holmes or some other great adventure game with good plots! |
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What? |
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Holy cow! Better do what he says! All those exclamation points must mean something! "People who give John Edwards money are stupid, and you're stupid for defending them, stupid." -- Your Friend |
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Plus, he makes me hungry! |
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That's the kind of guy that needs to be tied to the pipes under the sink to keep him from hurting himself and others. Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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That's very compassionate Bailey, I'd have thought you'd be a propenent of hitting him repeatedly with said pipes. Or, failing that, the sink itself. |
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I saw Syberia in the store yesterday. It looked like a really crappy game set in a really cool world. |
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Proponent, even. |
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I thought it was a given that he'd be encouraged to eat what he found under the sink. Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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All idiots aside, i still mise my portion of adventure games... *sigh*
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mise is the new 1337 *sigh*
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I agree with ragou. All these replies in this thread, and very, very few references to adventure games, which are nothing if not all about story, plot, and character development. Remember that many action games have borrowed from the adventure genre in terms of being story and exploration driven. Some of the best titles to 'lose yourself in': Gabriel Knight 3: Blood Of The Sacred, Blood Of The Damned, Grim Fandango, and The Longest Journey. There are also some upcoming titles heavy in story and plot: Broken Sword 3, Hannibal, and Call of Cthulhu to name a few. |
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Gabriel Knight 3 rocked my cock. |
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Ragou and anon-- Gunp01nt did say "with the exception of adventure games." Pay attention. |
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You expect anonymous folks to read shit? |
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Ah, Anonymous posts extolling the virtues of adventure games. If there's a more harmonious union, I don't want to see it. |
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Sorry, Ergo. (Somehow when I posted, it made me 'Anonymous') I didn't read every single post. Anyway, I listed a couple of upcoming titles that are not pure adventures, but are still heavily story, puzzle, and exploration driven (arguably three of the adventure genre's legacy). Most adventures lack any sort of action elements. Do most everyone here prefer a combination of action and adventuring? Deus Ex is in my top ten of most cherished games, and it's a perfect combination. I imagine Call of Cthulhu will be the same. Also, I highly recommend Blair Witch Volume 1: Rustin Parr, and the Silent Hill series. Very nice. |
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Adventure games are cool, except for the "cat hair moustache" component of some of them. |
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