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What's the Franko, Botcho?
January 19th 2003, 14:19 CET by deadlock I have been a regular at PlanetCrap for a number of years now. In that time, we have discussed many many many wonderful things. Again and again, over and over, ad nauseum. However, one of the more interesting subjects that we touch on is the capacity of modern computer games for telling a compelling, interesting tale. With, like, proper character development and shit. I think we can all agree that games up until now have been largely devoid of any real depth. Storylines tend to be simplistic, characters one-dimensional and thematic variation very thin on the ground, the latter generally revolving around some kind of future dystopia. Or Nazi monster chicks in leather. I think we can also agree that games have a capacity to be so much more. What I would like for us to do in this thread is explore videogames as a medium for story-telling. Here are a few questions to kick things off... What are designers doing right? In this category, you've got Deus Ex, Anachronox, the Metal Gear Solid games, any number of RPGs etc. None of these games are perfect examples - Deus Ex, for example is set in a pretty much cookie-cutter future dystopia, albeit a very well realised one, thanks to the huge amount of background story that was added. The Denton brothers aren't the most multi-dimensional characters either; though you could argue that, in the case of JC, that's a good thing since it lets the player impose more of their own personality on the game. What are they doing wrong? Do I really need to expand on this? Duke Nukem? Quake? Almost every game ever created? Finally, Do we even want games with deep, meaningful plots? The aforementioned Duke Nukem and Quake didn't exactly suffer, gameplay-wise, because of a lack of meaningful plot or deep characters. People remember Half-Life's plot as being a lot better than it was, thanks to the fact that it didn't give you a lot of time to actually think about it. Ico, my current obsession, is beautiful in it's simplicity, both aesthetically and plotwise. So, over to you - agree with what I've said here? Disagree? How much importance do you attribute to a game's plot? |
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Topic: What's the Franko, Botcho?
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Bailey, That's why Michael Abrash went to RAD (makers of Bink) and developed a software 3D renderer. Why would someone develop a software renderer when 3D cards/APIs are all the rage? Because they aren't targetting typical gamers with it. BEWARE THE CTHULU MOLE!
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Foodbunny: Insert gripe about being unable to choose your gender in most games here. Raven's Star Trek: Voyager - Elite Force allowed you chose to be either male or female, coincidently enough named androgynously as "Alex." Warren: Now, you can argue Max Payne back to me at this point, but that game, IMO, is a different scenario. The game was created around the characters name and the character is integral to the story. Gordon Freeman in Half-Life, was not. The differences here is literally between the first and third person perspective, not just the camera angle but the immersion of the player. In first-person perspective games, the player views the world through the eyes of the player character -- he IS the character (ie. players are playing the role of Dr.Gordon Freeman, a scientist who works at the secret Black Mesa complex). In third-person perspective games, the player views the world often above and slightly behind the player character he's controller, thus the player is disassociated with the character (ie. players aren't Lara Croft but rather they just control her actions). |
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Scott Miller: So, all things being equal, I'd give the gamer a well-defined character, because it's the better way to build a franchise. What about Bungie's Master Sergeant in Halo? He's nameless like the guy in Grand Theft Auto. Personally, I don't mind taking on the role of a named character, like Cate Archer, much like an actor takes on the role of Macbeth (although Macbeth didn't wear a skintight catsuit). I enjoyed No One Lives Forever a lot because as the game progressed the character of Cate Archer developed. When playing a faceless and nameless character like the space marine in Doom, Quake or Halo I feel disassociated with the character, as that character feels very empty. It's not there's no character interactive -- NPCs talk to the Master Sergeant often -- but a lack of a background of the character who already has a role (eg. space marine). Obviously the more faceless/nameless the player character is there's less personal character interaction and development than with a character "pre-built" with a name, face and personality. It's like the difference between a nameless extra in the background of a movie scene to that of the lead actor -- the former actor could portray his/her character in almost any way (as long as it doesn't piss off the director) whereas the latter albeit confined to a role already determined by the writers his/her character develops more by adding his/her acting talent to help in that character development. |
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Master Chief. ATTENTION TO DETAIL MOTHERFUCKER. "People who give John Edwards money are stupid, and you're stupid for defending them, stupid." -- Your Friend |
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My bad. I haven't played much of Halo since I don't have an Xbox (wow, he's even lower rank than I thought). |
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Wait, Master Chief is a navy rank and Master Sergeant is an army/air force rank. Damn it I'm still tired... |
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Master Chief is highest enlisted pay grade. "Is the internet making people less intelligent?"
"You mean like how video cameras cause thrown objects to hit men in the crotch?" |
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For some reason, I read that as the "highest enlisted gay pride". Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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Greg Why would someone develop a software renderer when 3D cards/APIs are all the rage? Because they aren't targetting typical gamers with it. More accurately, they aren't targetting gamers at all. They might be able to run the tight and concise code of Quake II on a Pentium III/733 mhz at 27 fps, but how well will they run a sloppy, shoddily put-together soap opera game from the folks who brought us Deer Hunter XXV on a Pentium II/333 mhz? Huh? HOW NOW, MOTHERBITCH?! Weren't 3D accelerators standard issue in any non-business PC by the point P3 700 mhz systems were coming out anyway? Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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If by 3d Accelerator you mean Intel Xtreme Graphics. Open 'em wide
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Sure, why not. Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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The interesting part of RAD's software renderer is how feature filled it is. It's easily the best looking software renderer I've ever seen, and it supports some features that would need a GF3 if you were to hardware accelerate them. Also, the software renderer comes in handy when you realize that a lot of new purchased computers (Joe Compaq machines) have a decent processor, but practically nothing for a videocard. "People who give John Edwards money are stupid, and you're stupid for defending them, stupid." -- Your Friend |
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Scott's mentioning how important it is to make a marketable character, and I have to agree. But I don't think it should be limited at that. Have a marketable gameplay experience. I mean, I'd play a Duke game that starred someone else, because I know I'd enjoy the gameplay mechanics of a Duke title. |
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I mean, I'd play a Duke game that starred someone else, because I know I'd enjoy the gameplay mechanics of a Duke title What about Ash "Come Get Some" Williams? |
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I, in fact, would be MORE inclined to play a duke nukem game that didn't star duke nukem. I hate the character. I understand why he's marketable, I understand why 3D Realms uses him... I will probably even put up with him to play DNF because I think the gameplay will be really good. But it doesn't change the fact that just about any other character would sell me more on the game. -chris |
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Yeah, exactly. Duke isn't original in any way, especially considering that most of his characteristics are directly lifted from other, more well-done characters. Give me a Duke game with an original character, and I'll like it even more. |
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A game that doesn't star the main character? I played that.. it was called Metal Gear Solid 2. |
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The Submission Bin is clogged up with something. Anyone have a plunger? Never tell the truth to people who are not worthy of it.
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I agree with FoodBunny, let's slap a vagina onto everything. Perhaps then I'll have much bigger chances of getting laid. Besides, I wonder what Duke would be like with a vagina. Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration. "I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming March 19 (Wang Wednesday) |
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A Duchess? |
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Yes, that would bring new meaning to "Come get some!" Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration. "I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka PENETRATOR: Rise of the Wang Cuming March 19 (Wang Wednesday) |
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I was accually paying attention and reading this thread till Jokers post. I am now crawling under my desk and screaming in tounges about how horrid the world is. Thank you Joker for accually being WORSE than my boyfriend at those sorts of statements. /me runs and hides now NO!
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Joker is always worse. |
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Better him than me. |
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Serves everyone right for straying into DNF marketing territory. |
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#152 by Ryslin Thank you Joker for accually being WORSE than my boyfriend at those sorts of statements. You have a boyfriend who is to some significant fraction similar to Joker? Ew. |
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That must give joker some hope. |
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I won the lotto last night on the way back from Idaho. |
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I need a couple hundred more for my plane ticket to Australia. Hook me up? |
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I only won $4. And the ticket cost me $1. |
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Alright, three bucks is better than nothing. Paypal sound good? |
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Uh-oh, you're a bad little Mormon. What's next, drinking non-decaf coffee?! |
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I really need to try some kind of internet-based musican throw-change-into-my-paypal-account shit. |
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You mean Duke doesn't already have a vagina? |
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Uh-oh, you're a bad little Mormon. What's next, drinking non-decaf coffee?! You're right, maybe I should donate it to a charity to get rid of the bad karma. And coffee tastes like vomit to me, so there's no danger of that happening. |
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A vomit connoisseur, huh? Put on your two step shoes, lose the blues and dance like it's year zero.
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You have the cow vomit, the horse vomit, the 10 vodkas and a pack of cigarettes vomit. Coffee is definately way down there on the vomit taste list. |
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10 vodkas? I wasn't aware they doubled as imperical measuring amounts. Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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Only when the vodkas themselves are double. |
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God, just... just walk away from the english language forever. Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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On a sidenote: comedy games have been done (well) imo: adventures. Take Larry, or any lucasart adventure. Too bad it all got stuck on implementing original gameplay. *sigh*
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USB ports are great, but just because I plug my Sidewinder into a different one than normal doesn't mean Windows should think it's a completely new device and reinstall drivers. |
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Says you. |
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There are games with good plot! If you had played some good adventures you would have known! Now you go and play Gabriel Knight, Grim Fandango, Syberia, The Longest Journey, Broken Sword, The Lost Files of Sherlock Holmes or some other great adventure game with good plots! |
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What? |
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Holy cow! Better do what he says! All those exclamation points must mean something! "People who give John Edwards money are stupid, and you're stupid for defending them, stupid." -- Your Friend |
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Plus, he makes me hungry! |
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That's the kind of guy that needs to be tied to the pipes under the sink to keep him from hurting himself and others. Cheap, but not as cheap as your girlfriend.
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That's very compassionate Bailey, I'd have thought you'd be a propenent of hitting him repeatedly with said pipes. Or, failing that, the sink itself. |
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I saw Syberia in the store yesterday. It looked like a really crappy game set in a really cool world. |
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