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T O P I C
Entertainment Journalism
April 28th 2000, 12:04 CEST by andy

This story is about irresponsible journalism, or 'entertainment' journalism as it is becoming known - news reported in a deliberately provocative or distorted way, intended to 'amuse' the reader and damn the consequences.



Increasingly nowadays, I think people are getting sick of bad journalism, especially opinion pieces which pose as being something else. The media can and does influence our daily lives, and individual journalists have a lot of power to affect social attitudes and sway public opinion.

Specifically, I expect most Planetcrap readers dislike the way that the mainstream media has recently been trying to convince people that violent games are evil and dangerous, while the gaming press has been trying to convince them that they are just a healthy, harmless way of passing the time - neither side presenting any evidence, of course, just preaching in that high-and-mighty tone that journalists seem to be born with.

As the 'Crap has been off-air for a while, and the worst of the media's witch-hunting / blind defending of games took place in that time, I'm guessing there are a lot of people out there with pent-up opinions they'd like to share.

To kick things off, I'll fill you in on something that has been bugging me recently. It isn't directly games-related, but it concerns a site most of you have probably visited sometimes. Ladies and gentlemen, presenting for your entertainment today... The Register. (Cue half-hearted drum roll and apathetic fanfare.)

Once you've had a quick scout around The Register, go and have a look at this story from the Observer newspaper: Where child porn lurks on the Net. Unashamedly mainstream and deliberately non-technical, that was the result of around four months of research into a British ISP, Demon Internet, and a regulatory body, the Internet Watch Foundation. I think it turned out very well. The only thing I wasn't happy about was that the article didn't go far enough, as some of the more 'shocking' information was excluded for legal reasons.

Now go and have a look at how the article was covered by The Register. Fairly straight reporting (although I'd question the repeated use of the word 'allegedly' when referring to known facts) but what you won't know from reading the story is that the subheading on the site's main page dismissed the Observer article as a "scare story which goes too far".

Along with terrorism, kidnapping and information that may lead to mass hysteria, I think it's fair to say that reporting about child porn and child abuse in general requires the utmost care. That care - above and beyond - was taken with the Observer article, so I think it was extremely irresponsible of The Register to dismiss it as a "scare story", especially when their own article made no attempt to explain why they described it as such.

More disturbing, when I contacted the Register journalist who wrote the story, his explanation was: "It is our view at The Register that too many Net stories are scare stories." Not much of an explanation at all, really. (He even went on to say that the Observer article could be viewed as either a scare story or "fair comment", which didn't make much sense to me at the time and still doesn't.)

Hoping that The Register would invest some time in more objective reporting, I explained that there was a lot of information not included in the Observer article that I would be willing to give to them - no payment, no conditions, I'd just hand over the info. I made this offer twice, to two Register journalists, and neither was interested. Neither even asked what sort of info I was talking about.

Naturally, this got me thinking: What sort of journalist dismisses as a 'scare story' the reporting of a commercial conflict of interest that allows paedophiles easy access to child porn, then can't offer any decent reason for why he did so and turns down information that could have lead to an important story? Easy: an entertainment journalist.

Since all of this took place, about a month ago, I've made a point of reading as many Register stories as possible, and it has become obvious that the site is pure, unadulterated entertainment news: Dull stories are written cynically with lashings of sarcasm; stories about individuals or companies include facetious insinuations about their integrity and reputation; stories about products or services pose quasi-satirical questions about their worth without explaining why.

In other words, The Register journalists are taking the most tabloid of approaches to their reporting of news - they write in such a way as to provoke an emotional reaction, whatever it is and at whoever's expense. It's appalling journalism, but it pulls in the crowds like nothing else.

Go and have a look through some of The Register's stories to see for yourself what I mean, but if you want to jump to the most blatant examples, here are a few recent ones that I've picked out:


Metallica sues Napster. The most biased piece of writing I've seen in a long time, reporting Metallica's decision to sue Napster for "in effect, trafficking in stolen goods".

After quoting drummer Lars Ulrich's comments about Metallica being sickened that their music is "being traded like a commodity rather than the art that it is", for some reason the Register journalist points out that Metallica is "as much a tight business organisation as an artistic endeavour" and then sardonically dismisses Ulrich as a 'tub thumper'.

Does a 'tight business organisation' not have a right to defend its commercial interests? Is the law suit less valid because the person speaking about it is the band's drummer? This appears to be what the Register journalist is hinting at, but he doesn't actually come out and say it - if he did, at least readers would know they were reading an opinion piece.

Incredibly, towards the end of the story, the journalist takes it upon himself to declare: "Napster was designed to aid the distribution of MP3 files, and MP3 has always been said by the format's proponents to be about taking the power of distribution away from the major labels and putting it back in the artists' hands. Clearly, as a band of artists, Metallica disagrees. And as an international business too, that goes double."

That summary makes a HUGE leap of non-logic, saying that because Metallica doesn't want people using MP3 to steal their intellectual property, they must also disapprove of other artists using MP3 to distribute their own music.

Something tells me this journalist simply doesn't approve of the law suit against Napster. (He's a bit more restrained in his Napster rapped by rapper story, but I think his bias still creeps in a little.)


Name Keeper names no IP names. I'll not say too much about this because to be honest I'm not sure what I could say without risking lawyer problems, but what sort of respectable publication would run an advertorial, promoting and endorsing a commercial service, but present it as a regular news item?


TV show rips off Britain's brains. Not so much entertainment journalism as just a total lack of responsibility, but that's equally bad, if not worse.

The British TV station Channel Four is running a competition in which people can submit their ideas for online businesses. There's £2m available for investment in ideas that a panel of judges and venture capitalists like the sound of.

Open to abuse? Yes, of course - the people running the show (one of the brightest and most promising production companies in the UK) could conceivably take your idea and use it themselves. Unlikely, but possible.

The Register had so much confidence in this theory that it brazenly declared the competition a rip-off and quoted some legalese from the Terms & Conditions, translating it as: "Basically, whatever you send to us is ours. Forever."

The trouble is, that isn't what the quoted clause means. It means that the show's producers retain the right to use "your name and/or likeness and/or the results of your appearance". They get to print your name and photo in promo material - they don't get to steal your idea.

Being an interfering git, but a helpful one, I sent a note to the Register journalist who wrote the story and pointed out how he had misunderstood the contract. No reply. The story stayed on the site, unaltered. The next day I wrote to The Register's editor, who I've contacted several times before and always received a reply, but he didn't respond either.

And to this day, the story is still on the site, accusing a highly-respected TV channel and production company of conspiring to steal people's business ideas, based entirely on a misunderstanding by someone who doesn't know how to read a legal document.


Entertainment journalism is nothing new - British newspapers such as The Sun and The Sport have worked that way for years and they never pretend otherwise - but it becomes a problem when it masquerades as something more valuable.

The Register is presented as a hard-hitting, serious, accurate and reliable news site, with a team of journalists that have their finger on the pulse of the IT industry and know their subjects inside and out.

The truth is that the site occasionally runs decent exposés and some members of the team are bright journalists with good insider information, but apart from that it's just sensationalist tabloid trash, pandering to its audience's whims and prejudices with distorted reporting, juvenile name-calling and 'underground' news leeched shamelessly from hacking sites.


One PR agent at a large British company, regularly featured on The Register, told me about a year ago how people from the site would often call his department, asking about stories that were pure fiction.

Of course, the stories would be denied, but would then appear on The Register with the only proof offered being the typical between-the-lines argument of "they denied it, so it must be true".

Where the anecdote turns really ugly, is that more often than not, according to this PR agent, his department would get a 'jokey' call from The Register a few days later, admitting that they now knew the story was false, yet the story would stay on the site with no form of apology or retraction.

As far as irresponsible journalism goes, I think that says it all. If, as appears to be the case, The Register has a policy of never publicly admitting to its mistakes, how can anyone ever be confident that anything they read there is true?

C O M M E N T S
Home » Topic: Entertainment Journalism

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#48 by "El Asso Wipo"
2000-04-28 21:48:55
dickcheese@hotmail.com http://www.bluesnews.com
I download Metallica MP3's and immediately delete them, just in spite of those silly overgrown outcasts known as Metallica.  Lars is such a wanker.
#49 by ""
2000-04-28 21:53:08
I prefer to buy my music anyway- not least because you get the nice, shiny case and inlay. There are times that I want to get mp3s though:- A significant chunk of my music is on vinyl, and my turntable is in no fit condition to play anything, quite apart from the effort of setting it up through my PC. However, having mp3s of music that I've <b>already</b> got is legal isn't it? Not wishing to seem naive or anything.
Not that it particularly matters at the moment anyway. It's not like I can even find any Ned's Atomic Dustbin or Wonder Stuff mp3s. Sigh.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#50 by "Grinder"
2000-04-28 21:54:40
pimurho@blueyonder.co.uk http://ww.pimurho.org.uk
Oops. Crapspy lost my details. #49 was me.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#51 by "crash"
2000-04-28 22:04:05
http://www.gamecenter.com
actually, this is the site i like best off yahoo for entertainment news:

<a href="http://biz.yahoo.com/news/entertainment.html" target="_blank">entertainment news</a>

yes, this is how i like my news -- clickable headlines in chronological order. and woo does it load fast. updates all the time, too, and the archives just rock. they might have one for straight biz, too, but since this is my industry, this is all i care about. :)

and in response to the dailyradar and next-gen thread... well. for obvious reasons, i'll just skip that one. :) i will say this, though: i already miss PCXL.
#52 by "Max"
2000-04-28 22:10:07
max@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
I don't find Business Wire to be a "pure" news source at all - press releases are some of the worst sort of self-congratulation and spin-doctoring.  My own company's press releases, while generally containing a few grains of real news, are otherwise complete tripe, window dressing to make a product announcement sound like a major event.

Older media types, feeling the pressure from the increasing reliance on online media, are succumbing to the same problems that make online media such a hit-or-miss proposition.  Because so much of a website's popularity (and thus revenue stream) is based on the public perception of them being "first with the news", I find most news extremely suspect.  This is particularly true in games media.

Andy has gone off on online games media before, detailing the ease with which publishers can generate revenue by manipulation of online "journalists" hungry for a few more hits.  I find his concerns to be more and more applicable to so-called mainstream media as well.  The examples sited by various folks in this thread of television news sensationalism, radio advertising, and etc., are all part and parcel.

The point of all this rambling is the same thing I always say when the subject is media - one has to be real careful in deciding who to believe.  Motive must always be suspect.  Some journalists are just better at hiding their motives than others. :)
#53 by "Apache"
2000-04-28 22:10:47
apache@warzone.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
crash: PCXL is Daily Radar now :-)
#54 by "Chango"
2000-04-28 22:13:23
papa_chango@hotmail.com http://www.btinternet.com/~jedi99/
I'm just posting to try out crapspy for craig

<b>#53</b> "Apache" wrote...
<QUOTE> crash: PCXL is Daily Radar now :-)
 </QUOTE>

hehehe

<b>IGNORE THIS POST PLEASE</b>



<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#55 by "Morn"
2000-04-28 22:15:46
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
Regarding Napster and the entire MP3 issue:
<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/msn/400956.asp">http://www.msnbc.com/msn/400956.asp</a>

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#56 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-04-28 22:22:02
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
'Incredibly, towards the end of the story, the journalist takes it upon himself to declare: "Napster was designed to aid the distribution of MP3 files, and MP3 has always been said by the format's proponents to be about taking the power of distribution away from the major labels and putting it back in the artists' hands. Clearly, as a band of artists, Metallica disagrees. And as an international business too, that goes double."'

heh, call me strange, but wouldn't this suit be exactly about Metallica taking the power of distribution back into their own hands, rather than having it in the hands of all of the Napster users out there? A band that's been around for about 20 years and pretty consistantly sold a decent number of CDs/albums each time they put something out most likely has a decent amount of control over their distribution, assuming they didn't sign some screwed up contract in the beginning. Where mp3s and programs like Napster help is when the bands first start out, it allows them to get their music out there and have a wide audience fairly quickly. Also of note is that sales of CDs increased last year, despite the increase in use of programs like Napster to distribute mp3 files illegally. I think it could be said that perhaps people trading mp3 files is increasing sales, because people can hear bands that may not get much radio play, or get a better sampling of what a CD has to offer before buying it.

As for the on-topic portion, good luck getting rid of this type of journalism, at the least it appeals to the public by not taking up their time with petty things like proof, examples, and evidence.
#57 by "El Asso Wipo"
2000-04-28 22:22:08
dickcheese@hotmail.com http://www.bluesnews.com
MSNBC is one of, if not the largest misinformation location on the web.  You can't trust a single thing they say.
#58 by "PainKilleR-[CE]"
2000-04-28 22:32:55
painkiller@planetfortress.com http://www.planetfortress.com/tftech/
well, the whole 2 CDs I bothered to use the mp3.com beamit software to get access to still work, and yes, this fractional T1 still sucks so bad I can barely listen to them on the 'low quality' setting. I'll just have to take the time to rip the CDs and burn the mp3s to CDs again so I can bring 1 CD to work with 10+ CDs worth of music on it, rather than bringing all of those damned CDs in to get 8 hours of music in my life. Too bad it takes a good hour to do all of that. Would've been nice if that msnbc article had some information, other than just stating that a court ruled mp3.com broke a law and infringed on someone's copyrights. bleh.
#59 by "crash"
2000-04-28 22:42:17
http://www.gamecenter.com
Apache says:
<i>crash: PCXL is Daily Radar now :-)</i>

that's what they'd like you to think, but no, it isn't. only Salmon and Osborne went to Radar--Rob Smith went to PCG, and i don't know where the rest of 'em went. that's like sayin since Jimmy Page played with Black Crowes, we should start calling them Led Zeppelin.

and besides, PCXL is a magazine. DR is a web site. there <i>is</i> a difference, in both format and attitude.

and i <i>really</i> can't comment on it any further than that. ;)
#60 by "crash"
2000-04-28 22:43:49
http://www.gamecenter.com
oh, and btw, <a href="http://www.ukresistance.com/" target="_blank">this site</a> cracks me up. :)
#61 by "Apache"
2000-04-28 23:05:53
apache@warzone.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
crash: I am aware of the difference in format, I happen to work at a game magazine website :o

oh, here's an interesting piece of lore my friend from Software Etc told me, for every 50 issues of Incite they sell, 48 are returned for refund/exchange. Yikes!
#62 by "deadboat"
2000-04-28 23:52:27
crush@0wn3d.net http://0wn3d.net
<b>#61</b> "Apache" wrote...
<QUOTE>...my friend from Software Etc told me, for every 50 issues of Incite they sell, 48 are returned for refund/exchange. Yikes!</QUOTE>

I'm not surprised one bit.  If I were to take a tour of the Incite offices, I'd probably see about 9 <A HREF="http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk">jeffk</A>-like kids, a leetspeak/english translator, and about twenty five hundred advertising sales reps.  Ugh.

A typical day at Incite:

<B>Jeffk #1:</B> uNF THIS gAEM IS NoT 3r33T iT DOSE NOT AHVE QUEALITY!
<B>Copy Editor:</B> This game is not good because it does not have quality.
<B>Jeffk #4:</B> BECASUE IT SUX0RZZZS
<B>Copy Editor:</B> It applies a lip-lock on phalluses! Hah!
<B>Sales Rep:</B> Ha Ha, we have suckered Activision into buying half the magazine's ad spots!  Remember now, give all of their games five stars!

And so forth.
#63 by "deadboat"
2000-04-28 23:56:29
crush@0wn3d.net http://0wn3d.net
Perfect Game Magazine 1.0:

The front 80 pages of Next Generation +
A dash of the humor and hotties of PCXL +
The balls of every Incite employee roasted and toasted
#64 by "Lowtax"
2000-04-29 00:01:49
lowtax@somethingawful.com http://www.somethingawful.com
Jeff K. wouldn't be caught dead working for Incite Magazine.

Believe me.

-Lowtax
#65 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-04-29 00:07:47
sdk@rosenet.net http://www.unrealuniverse.com
/me vomits after reading Andy's story.

I have to wonder why independant news reporting even exists when this is how a social disease is treated by 'the press'. During the Persian Gulf conflict the United States made 'propaganda runs' over Iraq, dropping millions of shards of paper featuring illustrations of how Saddam was hurting them, why they should revolt against him, if they surrendered they would be given food and shelter, things they weren't being given as Saddam's employees - and the kicker, their government is <s>controlling their media</s>.

Deviants want what they know they're not supposed to have, the *second* they commit that crime, their privacy should be taken away from them. Showing a total disregard for a very real issue is the antithesis of having independant news. It's a sad, sad world when privacy is more of an issue than pedophelia.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#66 by "crash"
2000-04-29 00:12:53
http://www.gamecenter.com
Apache:
<i>crash: I am aware of the difference in format, I happen to work at a game magazine website.</i>

now, now, do we really wanna go there? ;)
#67 by "Dethstryk"
2000-04-29 00:18:48
dethstryk@damagegaming.com http://www.damagegaming.com/
<b>#64</b> "Lowtax" wrote...
<QUOTE> Jeff K. wouldn't be caught dead working for Incite Magazine.
 
 Believe me. </QUOTE>

And if there is anyone to really believe about that, it's Lowtax. Nice to see you at PC, bro.


--
Dethstryk
Damage Gaming<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#68 by "Rantage"
2000-04-29 00:24:12
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#64</b> "Lowtax" wrote...
<QUOTE> Jeff K. wouldn't be caught dead working for Incite Magazine.
 
 Believe me.
</QUOTE>

LOL...good.  I prefer him where he is.  Maybe I'm just goofed up on Mountain Dew, but I think the whole JeffK thing is one of the funnier humor products out there....<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#69 by "Rantage"
2000-04-29 00:28:44
rantage@hotmail.com http://www.steelmaelstrom.org
<b>#65</b> "Seth Krieg" wrote...
<QUOTE>
 During the Persian Gulf conflict the United States made 'propaganda runs' over Iraq, dropping millions of shards of paper featuring illustrations of how Saddam was hurting them, why they should revolt against him, if they surrendered they would be given food and shelter, things they weren't being given as Saddam's employees - and the kicker, their government is controlling their media.
</QUOTE>

I actually have a couple of those leaflets (I should dig 'em up and scan them).  One depicts two frames: in the first, an Iraqi soldier runs from his burning tank and is safe because he surrendered...in the second, a skeletal Iraqi soldier burns in his ruined tank because he fought the Coalition.

Fascinating stuff, especially when you find it stuck in some concertina wire around your HQ one morning.  But I digress...<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#70 by "Warren Marshall"
2000-04-29 00:32:12
warren@epicgames.com http://www.epicgames.com
deadboat :

<quote>A dash of the humor and hotties of PCXL </quote>

Personally, I prefer my gaming news on a more mature level than PCXL.  If I want to look at hotties, there's lot of other places I can do that.  But that's just me ...
#71 by "Chango"
2000-04-29 00:44:22
papa_chango@hotmail.com http://www.btinternet.com/~jedi99/
<b>#64</b> "Lowtax" wrote...
<QUOTE> Jeff K. wouldn't be caught dead working for Incite Magazine.
 
 Believe me.
 
 -Lowtax </QUOTE>

You <i>following<i> me?




-Chango<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#72 by "HiredGoons"
2000-04-29 01:06:21
gavriel@freedom.net
I'm not that familiar with the UK press, but human nature rarely respects large bodies of water which separate nations.

Journalists, like all the rest of us, are people who are greedy, evil and stupid.  At least some of the time.

In the US, there is a licensing requirement for a number of professions: doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, et al. Beauticians have to certified, even.

None of that is required to be a journalist.  So, we know that regulated professions (ie doctors et al.), make big mistakes.  Sometimes they are even outright crooks.  Why should we be surprised when an unregulated profession has similar problems?

Everything you read or hear, needs to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

A few recent examples--

1.  A reporter for Salon (salon.com), Jonathan Broder, was fired for plagiarism.  He plagiarized from the Chicago Tribune.
2.  Salon's problems were reported by The Weekly Standard.   The Weekly Standard also has settled a lawsuit brought by Deepak Chopra for libel.
3.  The Weekly Standard's problems were reported by CNN.  CNN had some libel problems of its own regarding Richard Jewell/Atlanta-Olympics bombings.
4.  CNN's libel problems were reported by Tom Brokaw (NBC TV anchor).
5.  Brokaw had his own problems with Jewell and libel.
6.  Brokaw and CNN's difficulties with libel were reported by the Wall Street Journal.
7.  The Wall Street Journal lost a $223 million libel suit against MMAR Group, Inc. (a medical supply complany)

Every news organization in the world has problems being truthful.
Some more than most, sure, and its not like they are getting bits of trivia wrong
or failing to follow-up on a few loose threads.

The take home message: read from as many sources as possible, and even then
be a little skeptical.
#73 by "MCorleone"
2000-04-29 01:42:57
john_st123@hotmail.com
PCXL is dead.  Requiescat En Pace.

The magazine sucked.  Sorry to burst those of you who thought different's bubble, but there's a reason that it died.  The "Reviews" read like they were written by five-year-olds and whoever they employed as a tech editor probably buys stock Packard Bells off the shelf at Best Buy.  

Drastically dropping in quality is MaxPCMag too.  I think they're looking to target a new demographic:  The computer newbie.  The only bastion of quality information on the newsstand should now be right next to PCFlamer.  

The only timely enough to be worth anything is found on the web.  Print (in the computer industry anyways) is dead.  

Re PCXL:  Want nudies?  Buy a Playboy.  Want pix found in PCXL?  Buy Details.  Want game/computer info?  Read a website.
#74 by "MCorleone"
2000-04-29 01:44:14
john_st123@hotmail.com
And I might add, PCXL's death is testament to my summary above.
#75 by "Bad_CRC"
2000-04-29 01:46:35
someother@planetaccess.com http://hammer.prohosting.com/~badcrc/
<b>#28</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote...
<quote><b><i>Requiring registration may alleviate it somewhat since most of the "First post, bitches!" posts are by anons... </i></b></quote>
 
most of these threads have well over 100 posts.   what's the big deal?

Seems like there are many more worthy things to get worked up about.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#76 by "G-Man"
2000-04-29 01:50:14
jonmars@earthlink.net http://www.shiftlock.org
This is pretty damn off topic, but what the hell..

Does anyone have any idea why so few people ever post messages on Bluesnews.com?

I mean the site must get at least 50,000 hits a day and almost all the fps developers and fanboys read it religiously, so why the sparsity of opinion. Can it really be because it requires users to login?

Something to think about when asking Morn to do the same for PC.

 - [g.man]
#77 by "Morn"
2000-04-29 01:54:45
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#76</b> "G-Man" wrote...
<QUOTE>I mean the site must get at least 50,000 hits a day and almost all the fps developers and fanboys read it religiously, so why the sparsity of opinion. Can it really be because it requires users to login?</QUOTE>

Well, I think the <i>main</i> reason is the nature of the news updates... there's really not much to discuss about new screenshots and stuff, if you know what I mean.

Add that "threads" (news items) will disappear forever into the stomach of Blammo!, there's not really much of a point to start a discussion on Blue's News, or any other "high speed" news site really... IMO.

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#78 by "Lowtax"
2000-04-29 01:56:53
lowtax@somethingawful.com http://www.somethingawful.com
Regarding PCXL and Incite "Gaming" Magazine... it's survival of the fattest.  The marketing wizards at Incite saw a market for horny, Lara Croft addicted butter children, and they moved in aggressively and stole it from PCXL.  Incite had a *very* aggressive marketing campaign, with their $1.99 price tag, free promo mags left and right, and publisher ad deals.  I think PCXL was caught off gaurd, and had been getting lazy sitting atop the "tits and guns" market for so long, and Incite swept in and stole their audience with the sheer marketing blitz they created.  It was a good move on their part, because all it requires is a huge initial investment to crush the competition, then they can make up the money with their 900-pages-of-ads every issue.

Speaking of "900-pages-of-ads", I find it interesting that the PCXL guys moved on to jobs at Daily Radar, where it's next to impossible to actually find traces of content between their orgy of ads on every page.

-Lowtax
PS:  I don't know what the term "butter children" means, but I'm coining it.
#79 by "MCorleone"
2000-04-29 02:00:09
john_st123@hotmail.com
Regarding Bluesnews' lack of comments:  I speak for myself when I say that I think their script is messed.  I tried to register twice, two different systems, both using stock IE5, and it hung indefinitely until I loaded a different address.  

Blues is my start page but I'm not about to re-register.  I'm a grammar and spellcheck nazi, and I must give "props" to Blues for being one of the most comprehensive and consistent as far as quality of writing goes.  I'd say Kudos but I have a severe hatred of the word, so good job Blue and Loony.
#80 by "Timdog"
2000-04-29 02:02:51
TheTimdog@hotmail.com
G-Man:
<quote>Does anyone have any idea why so few people ever post messages on Bluesnews.com? </quote>

Actually, I do have a theory about this, here it goes:

1) Bluesnews is objective journalism. He doesn't play favorites, he always credits his stories, etc... There really isn't much to debate about what blue (or loony) posts. Thus no forum action.

2) Have you ever seen the format of blue's forums? Ugh! If its not UBB or some similar readable format like da'Crap I stay away, and I'm sure lots of others do too.

3) Bluesnews doesn't pimp their message boards at all. Hell, if I didn't visit the site <i>every</i> morning, I would probably be unaware of their existence.

--The Timdog<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#81 by "MCorleone"
2000-04-29 02:07:56
john_st123@hotmail.com
Gack!  Just as I post that I notice a mistake in the "Omikron" update posted by Franz.  "Gitarist"?  It happens, heh.  I will point out though, that Loony and Blue are still untouchable :)

Morn:  Just a point I've been meaning to say:  THANX for increasing the bandwidth!  I used to hate the slow connection of the old PC.  This is next to BLAZING!
#82 by "MCorleone"
2000-04-29 02:11:23
john_st123@hotmail.com
I've got to stop overposting this thread, but yeah, Timdog's point about whatever forum script they're using: it has got to go.  Have a seperate UBB forum where people can start threads (ala PC, heh) and LOSE that terrible comment system!

And regarding the registration system:  It makes sense for this and certain other boards, ones where I'll keep coming back to, but what is the reason that game sites require forum registration??  When I check those I want a quick in, quick out:  Ask a question about where I'm stuck.  I don't want to register for a board I'll never look at again and can potentially sell my address to spammers...
#83 by "Morn"
2000-04-29 02:16:25
morn@planetcrap.com http://www.planetcrap.com
<b>#81</b> "MCorleone" wrote...
<QUOTE>Morn:  Just a point I've been meaning to say:  THANX for increasing the bandwidth!  I used to hate the slow connection of the old PC.  This is next to BLAZING! </QUOTE>

PlanetCrap is on an all-new server, which has its own 100 MBit connection to a couple of quadzillion terabit links to various backbones, or something. The downside is that I'm now paying for the server (while the last one was free)... I have a couple of other (partly commercial) projects hosted on the same machine though, so all is good (as long as I can count on <i>one</i> of the other projects to one day repay me... gnarrgh!).

- Morn
<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#84 by "G-Man"
2000-04-29 02:49:00
jonmars@earthlink.net http://www.shiftlock.org
<b>#77</b> "Morn" wrote...
<quote>Well, I think the main reason is the nature of the news updates... there's really not much to discuss about new screenshots and stuff, if you know what I mean.</quote>

I disagree... there isn't a day that goes by that I don't see something on Blues that provokes a response in me. Usually that emotion is disgust but eh. Seriously though it has to be more than that. I mean the percentage of posters vs readers is SO overwhelmingly small that there must be something very odd about the demographic that frequents Blues. I've never seen more than a dozen posts in a day (OOTB posts don't count, as they are usually just people high-fiving Blue or commenting on the LOD) and the majority are posted by the same small group of people (tAe, Azrealot, etc).

<b>#80</b> "Timdog" wrote...
<quote>Have you ever seen the format of blue's forums? Ugh! If its not UBB or some similar readable format like da'Crap I stay away, and I'm sure lots of others do too.</quote>

Actually Blammo has an option for viewing all the posts of the day in sequential unthreaded format, which is pretty much identical to PC's style. I personally hate threaded boards, since it takes so damn long to read all the posts that I just get frustrated and give up.

Hey another off topic bit... but this is aimed more at the game developers who lurk about.

I've always wondered why games aren't shipped with two versions of every model. A normal, suitable for the target market's PC at the time of release version, and then an over the top three to four times as detailed model. This has two benefits, firstly it rewards the early adopters of the latest tech and provides an interesting way to benchmark hardware. Secondly it would allow a game to age more gracefully, so that 2 years down the road, it might not look so dated. The only disadvantages I can see are an increase in development time and the gobbling up of precious cd space.

But really isn't it easier to create a higher poly model than a low poly counterpart? And besides don't you guys usually create high poly versions anyway, for renderings, press purposes, concept design, or even as a part of the low-poly design process? As for cd space why not release them after the fact as an addon to the players? New features and concept released with patches seems to be becoming the norm anyway.

PS: I'm not talking about LOD, MRM stuff either.. subdividing a lowpoly mesh a million times won't make it look much better.

 - [g.man]
#85 by "G-Man"
2000-04-29 02:50:50
jonmars@earthlink.net http://www.shiftlock.org
New features and content released with patches...

damn
#86 by "Charlie Wiederhold"
2000-04-29 03:16:52
charliew@3drealms.com
G-Man: Limited payoff for the time invested.

How long has Quake been out? In the time since we are just now barely getting to where a 1000 poly model in a FPS isn't completely insane (still pretty rough though).

On top of that, most games are lucky if they have a shelf life or a play life of 6 months to a year. The few games that are played for 2-3 years, are not being played because of their visuals, but the game within.

Games like Everquest and AC though, they will be providing updates to the visuals as they go since the payoff is greater for the time they would put into making the content.

Charlie Wiederhold
#87 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-04-29 03:19:55
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>Regarding PCXL and Incite "Gaming" Magazine... it's survival of the fattest. The marketing wizards at Incite saw a market for horny, Lara Croft addicted butter children, and they moved in aggressively and stole it from PCXL.</quote>

Does anyone perceive Incite as actually being successful? As I understand it, they did a million print run for their first issue and had an 18% sell through at $1.99, which is dreadful (most magazines have at least a 25-35% sell through, without special pricing). Since then, I understand they're struggling to make their ad projections, which is something PCXL had problems with as well (I've heard it's why Imagine bought PC Games; PCXL had to reach 100,000 circulation in their first year or pay out refunds to advertisers... they weren't close, so they bought PC Games and gave their subscribers PCXL). PCXL folded with 100,000 circ, which is about a third of the other PC game magazines...

So if Incite stole their readers, well... there weren't that many to begin with.

And as for 900 pages of ads, Incite has very few per issue, which probably means they're losing A LOT of money. They're owned by a huge German publisher, who I assume will stick with the magazine for a while longer, but I'd expect a radical refocusing at some point... the whole "tits and games" hasn't worked, but for some reason CGW seems to think it's the way to pass PC Gamer.
#88 by "deadboat"
2000-04-29 03:46:48
crush@0wn3d.net http://0wn3d.net
I would love to see a games magazine aimed solely at the truly hardcore gamer... even though it would sell horribly, I believe it would actually be worth my $4.95.

What is up with computer game magazine pricing?  Is it because the market is so specialized?  I mean, my April 2000 Maxim (uNF) was only $3.95, and a 112 page issue of maximum newb... er PC is $5.95!  It's sickening or something.

It would be a nice experiment, I think, for one or two super-rich designers/game players (cough Carmack) to found a print magazine for those of us making up the "hardcore demographic."  I know, I know, the web is replacing print media, but I can't bring my monitor into the bathroom... :)
#89 by "Apache"
2000-04-29 05:00:40
apache@warzone.com http://www.voodooextreme.com
Steve: People 'in the know' realize that Incite is not succesful, but clueless PR reps are still eager to give their wares to a mag that's percieved as 'mainstream media'.

btw- I think Computer Games Magazine rocks :-)
#90 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-04-29 05:12:27
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>I would love to see a games magazine aimed solely at the truly hardcore gamer... even though it would sell horribly, I believe it would actually be worth my $4.95. </quote>

Hmm, I'd say all the PC game magazines, save Incite, are aimed at the hardcore gamer.

I can't imagine what types of articles we'd write at Computer Games Magazine to make it MORE hardcore? We already do things like 10 page walkthroughs of Thief 2, four page reviews of Messiah, crap like that.

<quote>What is up with computer game magazine pricing? Is it because the market is so specialized? I mean, my April 2000 Maxim (uNF) was only $3.95, and a 112 page issue of maximum newb... er PC is $5.95! It's sickening or something. </quote>

Well, about a million additional readers may have something to do with it. Maxim also charges up the wazoo for ads, hence it can charge less. Game magazines only appeal to game companies as far as advertisers go. (Something I've never quite figured out... you'd think Pepsi, the Gap, whatever would want to target that demographic, but I guess they reach them elsewhere)

But the CDs and packaging add another $1 or $2 to the cost of a magazine.
#91 by "Steve Bauman"
2000-04-29 05:15:21
sbauman@adelphia.net http://homepages.together.net/~sbauman/
<quote>Steve: People 'in the know' realize that Incite is not succesful, but clueless PR reps are still eager to give their wares to a mag that's percieved as 'mainstream media'. </quote>
This is true... PCXL used to get covers we'd be interested in, and I was always puzzled... I'd call them and say, "Um, you do realize we have 2.5 times their circulation, right?" If getting their game in front of the most readers is their goal (and it generally should be), they should go down the magazine pecking order...

<quote>btw- I think Computer Games Magazine rocks :-) </quote>
Aw shucks, thanks. We've been really spending a lot of time working on our "rock" quotient. Glad someone noticed.
#92 by "Seth Krieg"
2000-04-29 08:27:09
sdk@rosenet.net http://www.unrealuniverse.com
Rantage: I'd love to see that, personally.

I still can't believe that entire 'war'.

Michael Linderman was killed by friendly fire while positioned inside Iraq so we can have plenty of gas in our cars. Brendan Linderman, Michael's little brother (and one of my best friends) had to deal with the loss of his brother while US 'media' went haywire and severely made his life 'shitty' 3 months post-mortem of his brother's death.

But Brendan can still drive his Honda Civic to work. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I>
#93 by "Sgt Hulka"
2000-04-29 17:54:03
sgt_hulka@yahoo.com http://www.hulka.com
Crash, thanks for that link. That site was something else.

I wrote a comment system into hulka.com and people rarely comment there too, and I get about 500,000 hits a month.  I think it's because unless someone violently disagrees with my opinion, they just go to the next news item and hopefully laugh.  

But then again, Blue posts news with little opinion and people don't post comments, I don't know why.  I go over to the WackyShack or whatever that Sugar site is called and there's like 3500 comments on VooDoo benchmarks, unfortunately their all "You're Gay" or "Porn Link" type posts.  

Man, I want an income tax free life.

Napster: Have it, used it about three times to find some S-Club 7 song so that I could dance in my underwear in the morning, but other than that, have not used it.

Whatelse have we been discussing.  "Scrolling up"..
Incite Magazine: Bought the first issue.  I'm saving it in case I run out of toilet paper.  Did you guys see all the Elian stuff for auction on Ebay?  Funny stuff.  I posted some of the links at Hulka.com (Blatent Plug)..

I've never told anyone this before, but I think George Broussard secretly bid on my Ebay Twinkies!
#94 by "Bob Aboey"
2000-04-30 10:26:04
bmw@carolina.rr.com
Geez you people are uptight, I was just having fun, if you don't like it why not just move on and ignore it? What annoys me a hell of alot more than so called 'unintelligent' posts that people seem to whine about here are the pompous bastards who think having fun and goofing off is stupid. 'Oh dear, he said motha bitches, our intelligent discussion is thusly ruined. Jeeves, fetch my coat and call my mommy so that I may cry in her arms.'

I'm all for having intelligent debates about the articles, but without some jokes and some goofy posts this place would be incredibly boring. So do me a favor and take one moment out of your life to consider that maybe just maybe someone might like to read goofy nonsense posts every now and then, if only to stifle the long winded boring arguements that you seem to think people actually care about. Your word is not that of a god, you seem to think goofing off in the same thread is somehow disrespectful to it. Come off your high horse.
#95 by "Bob Aboey"
2000-04-30 10:32:49
bmw@carolina.rr.com
LEt me rephrase that last part, I don't want to demean anyone for arguing and discussing. People (including me) do care, but your arguement is not so important and ground breaking that a goofy post somehow ruins it. If it annoys you move on, respect my right to post goofy crap as much as I respect your right to post whatever the hell you post. You don't see me going around and picking at every long winded arguement I see that seems to go nowhere.
#96 by "crash"
2000-05-01 21:37:04
crash@planetcrap.com http://www.gamecenter.com
<i>You don't see me going around and picking at every long winded arguement I see that seems to go nowhere.</i>

LOL if you did that here, you wouldn't have time for much else. :)
#97 by Dumdeedum
2006-09-25 22:25:47
http://www.dumdeedum.com
...well not unless I get really bored.

MP3 Of The Week: Jeez, it's Monday AGAIN.
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