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The Development Bomb
July 31st 2002, 21:29 CEST by Talion Over the years, the time required to develop an action computer game (and other types as well, but the action genre is easiest to trace back) has steadily increased. In the side-scroller days, making a game took a few months. Now it takes a few years. We all know this, but the question must be raised: how long will it take in 2005? 2010? In 1968 Paul Ehrlich wrote The Population Bomb, predicting that overpopulation would make life miserable in the 1980s and untenable in the 1990s. Well, that didn't happen. Now it serves to warn us about extrapolating from current trends. However, the book failed in its predictions not in terms of the population increases but in other areas. Ehrlich did not anticipate that agricultural advances would cause a food increase that outstripped the population increase. Enough about Ehrlich. Games take a long time to make. That's a fact we all understand. However, they have been taking longer and longer. Max Payne took four years, DNF is taking heaven knows how long, and it looks like Doom III will take four years (starting its development after Quake 3's release, though the content developers did work on Q3:TA for a while). TF2 is MIA, and if George Broussard (or was it Scott Miller, can't remember) is to be believed, Valve is secretly working on Half-Life II. Whatever they're doing, it's taking a long time. OK, so it takes 4 years to make a good action game. In the past it didn't take four years. Go back far enough and it took four months. Now go forward five or ten years. Now how long does it take? If I was actually willing to do any research for a PC topic, which I am not, I would graph the trend and use that to make a guess. Since research is out, I will pull a number of out my lazy bum and say we could be looking at 6 or 8 year development times. Could this be? Maybe, but it seems ridiculous. The economics of 4 year development cycles are bad enough. 8 years is when it becomes a philanthropic rather than capitalistic endevour. Where and how will the trend halt? According to the lovable 3DR tag team, it takes 4 years to make a Great Game, and since everyone seems to be doing it we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Doesn't the 4 year number stem from the need to outdo the previous generation of games? How will 3DR outdo themselves for Duke 5 or whatever they end up doing? How many years will it take? Naturally there are exceptions to this rule. American McGee's Alice took about a year to develop. Development time figures are hard to get and as I said I'm busting my butt here, but I'm sure there are other quick-to-market FPS. However, they remain exceptions, and the A-list companies continue to lengthen their development cycles. Where will it end? |
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I imagine you are Bob I just want someone to take the Doom 3 engine and MAKE System Shock 3, preferably Warren Spectors ION team... Ds Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
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*shrug* I thought halo sort of beat into you a sense of helplessness, as your marines kept getting slaughtered, and you had to inch your way through a planet full of hostile enemy forces, who could actually get backup. The first few missions give you hope, but when everyone is slaughtered at the central control room, and THEN the flood come out, it's doom doom doom all over. heh. You only live by killing everyone else, and end up alone, very far from home. 2 armadas, long forgotten artifact, unstoppable plague, all dead and gone at the end. Or perhaps that's just me. And MattG, when someone asks "why are video games are so violent?" my answer is not going to be a response about non-violent video games... That's just dodging the question. iamelectro
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#136 Darkseid-D I just want someone to take the Doom 3 engine and MAKE System Shock 3, preferably Warren Spectors ION team... Me too, but give me some ammunition this time for heaven's sake. lots of people: Why are video games so violent? Why are little boys so violent? I know someone who works at a day care center where of course they have no politically incorrect toys like GI Joes or toy guns, but she said a little boy's imagination can make a Barbie doll into a gun, so it hardly matters. |
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So then the obvious next step for game developers is to make a game for girls where you defeat your enemies (called "friends") with passive-aggressiveness, backstabbing, ostracism, and good old fashioned embarassment. |
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There are over 500 player-made modules available for NWN! http://www.bioware.com/bioware_info/press_releases/nwn500mods/ Woohooo! I can't wait to play them ALL!!!!! |
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I can't wait till they drop the price to something people with only one job can afford. |
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By then there will probably be about 2 million player-made modules!!! Woohoo!!! Each one better than the last, I'm sure !!!! |
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Gotta delete 'em all! My name is Don Don
I am pretty Elephant Love me well! |
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#120 Petri wrote: I'd like to get back to the "People are sheep" thing... someone out there is buying these top ten games. People vote with their money, and it looks like there's a lot of people voting for more sequels. What really sucks is having to be careful when I bitch about sequels, and at the same time finding myself getting all giddy at the thought of a System Shock 3 being done on the Doom3 engine as DS posted above...gah...hypocrites R me I guess? Bah, either way, I feel pretty comfortable in my hyprocrisy, seeing as how sequels are pretty much the only thing coming out as of late. I also know that if Half Life 2 was announced tomorrow, I'd ...be "so there" in a heartbeat....or sumthin...meh..:/ I just wonder if I'll still be a sheep in George's eyes if I decide to buy DNF once it comes out?...:P Honestly, in my attempts to unjade myself, I've all but quit reading previews, reviews and the like. And buying a game based on the feeling I get as I'm holding the box in my hands is what I used to do prior to becoming involved with Q2. After Quake2, I found myself making comparisons between games that I prolly shouldnt have, rather than judging the game based on its own merits. And yet I still fall into the same trap when I espose the want for a game to rival or match Half Life. I dont know if I've somehow been conditioned to think of games based on comparisons, but judging games based upon thier individual merits has been an uphill battle recently...but I think I'm slowly becoming a better(less jaded) gamer by doing this. ...on the outside looking in, banned by an epiphany at an EB store....
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deadlock What I meant by my comments was that in Halo, I didn't feel as immersed, involved, part of the world, caring about what happens, etc... By the some guy in a battle suit comment, I meant I had no background, no real character to play, it was the same as every other FPS out there immersion wise...I start with a small gun/knife, something happens, I must go kill the something and find bigger guns to kill the bigger somethings... What I liked about HL is I felt I knew Gordon, I knew where he was coming from, I knew who he was by how the scientist reacted to him, what if felt like to be a nameless cog in the scientist empire there. I felt like I was a person in an actual place...not many games can do that. I was highly engrossed in the game, I did feel the fear when I was supposed, jumped and hollered a few times at points... As Warren mentioned, it's a good part imagination. There was not a huge amount of story, but they covered the points that let my brain fill in the rest and everything worked. At least for me. But that said, I do find it odd that he finds it hard to get engrossed in a game that he can't 'relate' to. For me to become engrossed/immersed in a single player game where I play one person, I have to feel I know where that person is coming from, I have to feel I know that person. Then I can understand why certain things happen, why people treat him one way or another, etc. If I'm nameless joe gun fighter, I don't have anything to go off of. With Gordon I knew what he was and where he was coming from, with Sin, for instance, I played a some guy who was a badass...wee. That's the start, then once the character is filled out, I have to understand the environment I'm in. That's why RL type of games work better for me, because I see a building or a gun shoot and I know that's how it's supposed to work. In a fantasy game, I would need those things explained, not just be able to pick up a staff and it shoot magical whatever and know that was right. .......I need to feel at home in the environment to become immersed in said environment. Not to say I can't be taught to feel at home in an abnormal place, just harder for the designers then. This post made sense in my head.
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As per halo you get to hear the marines and whatnot comment you.. "whoah, it's the new mark II" "He's taller than I thought" But they all talk about you like a cyborg, and not a human. iamelectro
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Chris they've filled gaming up for the past two years with tactical military sims, and that's very annoying No, they only did Counterstrike. The me-too developers were responsible for the rest. Do you blame Westwood for every mediocre RTS title? Gonna blame Jet Grind Radio for the upcoming deluge of cel-shaded poop? Shame on you. Current market value of the Max Payne IP according to a comparison of the market capitalization of Take Two pre- and post- sale: approx. -$213,000,000.
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Yes. Shame on me indeed! Making an offhand comment on a message board related to a mod for a four year old game. Next thing you know I'll be eating babies. =) You're right, of course. But I am filled with hate, and Counter-Strike is just such an easy target for my hate... -chris |
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Next thing you know I'll be eating babies. =) With that bitter, jade colored sauce. "It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
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It's magically delicious! My name is Don Don
I am pretty Elephant Love me well! |
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You feel shame, but then you go free. Current market value of the Max Payne IP according to a comparison of the market capitalization of Take Two pre- and post- sale: approx. -$213,000,000.
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Matt: I see what your getting at - I still disagree but variety is the space of life etc. etc. You don't say that you didn't have fun with Halo, so we're not so different you and I, Mr. Perkins. When they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out ? Will you defend me ? Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right |
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And don't blame CS, I don't blame Valve. I don't even blame the people who made all the cheap knockoffs that flooded the market. I blame the masses of people who play those GODDAMN games. No I never liked CS. The whole "realistic" just acts as a brake on something that is supposed to be a fast and furious genre (imho). And then the countless public servers filled with countless^2 morons who bitch, whine, cheat and act as an ass in general. Blame the masses, they deserve it. They ALWAYS deserve it. "Durr, bluh, shoving mini-snickers in my mouth as fast as mom can buy them." - Bailey
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So there's no bitching, whining, or cheating on your "fast and furious genre" games? My name is Don Don
I am pretty Elephant Love me well! |
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Speaking of cheating, I need a move 'card to hand temporarily' cheat for solitaire. |
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#154 by Bailey Bitch. "This is also gay."
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deadlock You're right, I'm not saying I didn't have with it, I did. I was just saying I didn't feel as involved in the plot/story of the game. And none of us are really that different... This post made sense in my head.
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And don't blame CS, I don't blame Valve. I don't even blame the people who made all the cheap knockoffs that flooded the market. I blame the masses of people who play those GODDAMN games. Why even give it so much thought? I mean, there's plenty of other FPSes to go around. And if the knock-off artists weren't knocking off CS, they'd be knocking off something else just as incompetently. So who cares? Let the tactical military FPS people have their fun, does it honestly hurt you or I? |
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Yes, yes it does. Understand? Good. Play! -- Hatsumi-Sensei
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it burns, oh my god it fucking burns! When they come to ethnically cleanse me
Will you speak out ? Will you defend me ? Freedom of expression doesn't make it alright Trampled underfoot by the rise of the right |
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Rogue Leader took less than a year from start to finish. that's a good example that it doesnt always take a hell of a long time to me a hell of a good game. You know, some people say things about ambiguity.
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Particularly when said good game is so goddamn hard that no one bothers to play past the third or fourth level. ;) -chris (actually, I probably just lack skillz) |
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chris, I never made it past the fourth level =) So there.
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Don't forget that 3D Realms is taking their Swee Time (tm). And that is a big point. The 3DR team don't work weekends, they spend less time in the office. But then, every last one of them is giving it 110%. And I think that's the attitude that makes them the developers that they are. |
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Swee Time? Is that like aspartame? "Brian, there's a message in my Alpha Bits! It says 'OOOOOOO'!"
"Peter, those are Cheerios." -The Family Guy |
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Only if the game ships with a "thong gun" will I enjoy it. It's just true. I can see it now.....(warped crosscut fade to game action).... Security Guard: "How about some ID there, buddy?" Me w/thong gun: "How about a sequin thong? ... *THUPT* ... " Security Guard: "Forget the ID, point me to a dancing pole!" Scientist: "I find your purile use of thongs illogical and juvenile." Me w/thong gun: "Wrap your egghead around this sheer thong! ... *THUPT*..." Scientist: "I feel the need to dance on this lab table for you.." Okay, I laughed at least once typing it. |
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3D Realms owes me nothing. |
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Desiato: Only if the game ships with a "thong gun" will I enjoy it. It's just true. sounds like something that would be in NOLF2, all things considered. "Everyone knows the best way to live life is to troll messageboards." --Warren Marshall
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3D Realms owes me nothing. And all things considered, they won't get anything from me, either! Unless, of course, DNF is a "good game". I don't buy things for name recognition alone. And if you'll excuse me, I need to go tie my Iversons before I trip... /sarcasm Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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Why should they work weekends? |
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You know, I think the biggest reason why I don't consider Deus Ex an FPS, is because if it was an FPS, it was a damn poor one. The weapons weren't that great, aiming sucked (cause of the skills influencing your ability to shoot), and the bots were dumb as fuck when it came to combat. To tell the truth, I'd have liked Deus Ex more if it hadn't influenced you ability to shoot with the skills. I'd like that ability to be left to my own skill, rather than having some false stuff interrupting my ability to play. I think when it comes to the ability to shoot, SS2 had Deus Ex topped. We're not "Whinny," either, "Looser".
-MCorleone |
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I think when it comes to the ability to shoot, SS2 had Deus Ex topped. With the drawback being that your gun broke every 12 shots. "It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
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Invest more nanobots into repair! Hey, I made a cool game! It's called: "I poisoned half the food in the house, so if you eat you might die"! On an unrelated note, have a taco.
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I should probably get around to playing SS2, given how much I liked DX... -chris |
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Well, I played with the SS2 patch that stopped your guns from degrading. Didn't want to have to bother with that stuff, plus I had at least 3 people tell me not to play without that patch. We're not "Whinny," either, "Looser".
-MCorleone |
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Not a bad point. It's an interesting feature in the game, but after a while it's more annoying than anything else. Hey, I made a cool game! It's called: "I poisoned half the food in the house, so if you eat you might die"! On an unrelated note, have a taco.
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blah Bailey investing in maintenance was far better then repair. |
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I remember SS2 - loaded it up, and was annoyed to no end by the mipmapping (or whatever you want to call it) of the textures that went from far-away to more detailed closer-up. It was like a hexagonal umbrella - walk forward, display with writing snaps to clarity. Step back, blue display with a few muddied streaks. Drove me insane the same way a untied shoelace can. Glad I didn't bother. |
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The thing that annoyed me most about ss2's handling of gun breakage was supposedly I just came out of 3 years of military training, and yet I don't know how to clean or maintain a pistol? what's up with that? Listen, don't try to play dumb with me, I'm the King of D- Wait... That's not gonna come out right... - Bucky (Get Fuzzy by Darby Conley)
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Must have been your system at the time, since I've never seen mipmapping problems like that when I was playing. We're not "Whinny," either, "Looser".
-MCorleone |
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I remember SS2 - loaded it up, and was annoyed to no end by the mipmapping (or whatever you want to call it) of the textures that went from far-away to more detailed closer-up. It was like a hexagonal umbrella - walk forward, display with writing snaps to clarity. Step back, blue display with a few muddied streaks. Drove me insane the same way a untied shoelace can. Glad I didn't bother. Because, remember kids ... it's all about the gameplay. "It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
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What's a gameplay? Hey, I made a cool game! It's called: "I poisoned half the food in the house, so if you eat you might die"! On an unrelated note, have a taco.
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They're green and fluffy with large hind legs. signatures are, as I've stated, for perverts
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I didn't have any mipmapping issues like that either, but I'm responding to Warren's implication that gameplay should trump such an issue, if one really did exist.. (maybe it was a driver issue for Desiato). A game having poor graphics is one thing, but a game having BUSTED graphics (odd blurring effects, bad jitter, and yes even really noticable mipmap popping) can EASILY be frustrating enough that no amount of gameplay would make me subject myself to play it. The primary reason I didn't play SS2 much is that the collision detection and physics felt really crappy, much in the way most FPS games not based on the Quake engine do (not that I need to jump 9 feet high, or need super realistic physics (obviously Quake's aren't) but way too many FPS games have weird issues when you're moving on slopes or issues where you'll 'stick' too much to walls, etc). UT is actually pretty decent CD/physics-wise as well (talking about the original, haven't played the new preview). Lithtech games tend to be the worst. The reference coldet/physics they ship with the engine must be programmed specifically to piss me off. |
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They have CHICKEN LEGS! iamelectro
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