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Shadowbane loves your money...but only in advance.
July 26th 2002, 09:39 CEST by Matt Perkins As see on Warcry, if you don't pre-order Shadowbane, you can't play 3 of the races in the game at the launch. Yes, the pre-order CD contain a code which will unlock restricted races (all three). This has to be the worst marketing ploy I've heard of. If they release a patch near the release of the game, it won't be so bad, but at release I'm going to look at the Shadowbane box and think, "Hey, they are fucking me over if I buy this box, why do I want to?". This method of marketing may be great for counting your chickens before the launch, but it's really saying, "you aren't hardcore enough to earn our respect, so, average joe, get screwed and don't even know it". Especially if they make you wait awhile after release. And if they don't, there will have been no reason to pre-order. This stinks of some marketing genius that was taking a hit off the crack pipe when they though this up. |
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Topic: Shadowbane loves your money...but only in advance.
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The fact that yet-to-be-released games have a 'fanbase' is very sad but a great argument against the people who would say marketing is meaningless in the industry I was actually trying to think of another term when i typed that, but it failed as my brain is fairly useless. They needed someway to make these chars limited, its part of the storyline/gameplay, im just not sure if thats the best way to do it. o well |
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This method of marketing may be great for counting your chickens before the launch, but it's really saying, "you aren't hardcore enough to earn our respect, so, average joe, get screwed and don't even know it". Things get much much worse, about a month before release they'll be selling a special promo cd with even more special stuff (they haven't said what that stuff is just yet). Then again I fail to see how this is any different then the mass of games that have had special items available if you where lucky enough to buy/preorder from select places. |
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jafd - I think we're in agreement that any "special" arrangement will ultimately fail. Makes you wonder about some of the other enterprises that want to involve financials in the actual game world. Wouldn't it be ironic if the next phase of e-commerce came from these games? Once this stuff can be tied to money and the companies backing it aren't trying to prevent trade on their networks for currency, it could get really interesting quick. Add a dash of encryption, stir in some P2P decentralization planning....welcome to the real new economy. |
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Yes, but what does this have to do with Shadowbane?! Uh ... oh ... -Jon
The secret ingredient is evil. |
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Ripped from HomeLAN: Arithmetic Studios' founder Robert Holm sent over a note announcing that his PC action-adventure game W.A.T.E.R. is now on hold "until further funding can be secured". Indeed, the official Arthmetic Studios web site has been totally changed to reflect Holm's new professional interest: performing rap music under the stage name "Chillious". Coming soon: Heavy B and the Marketing Boyz Current market value of the Max Payne IP according to a comparison of the market capitalization of Take Two pre- and post- sale: approx. -$284,000,000.
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I gave up on Shadowbane being vaguely interesting about a year ago, so it's hard for me to be motivated about this, although I do distinctly recall Wolfpack promising the hardcores the three forbidden races would only be accessible to those who reached a certain level of accomplishment in the game; taking over a large portion of land, hitting level 60, that sort of thing. I'm sure their pawning off the former "badge of lifelessness" is irritating the hardcores, but it'll probably be a pretty good incentive for the casual players who are interested in the game. And of course, all the hardcores won't want to miss out on the first precious month of "grab, exploit everything" playtime, so it's still a win-win for them. I cannot tell if everyone in marketing is a polished, professional mormon, or just super-high on the coke dust.
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The "vocal complexity" of Eddie Vedder?!? Uh... yeah... -chris |
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This woulden't be the firs time for this sorta thing: Westwood did the same thing with the release of Emperor Battle For Dune and Red Alert 2. With Dune if you pre-ordered you got three extra units and with RA2 you got a couple of extra multiplayer maps but a few weeks after the release these things were made availebel to every1. These weren't major game features anyway, the units were not important and diden't effect the balacne of the game and the maps were also not really special. Don't know much about Shadow Bane so i'll ask this: are those 3 races a big part of the game or just a little extra thing? |
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Duality - Okay, yeah I went on a little mental fieldtrip there. Can't help it though, was re-reading "Heavy Weather" by Bruce Sterling and the passages I was referring to are: Alex wasn't exactly sure how "currency privitization" had been accomplished, back at the time. *snip* Alex was well-to-do, and he had some unlikely friends, so he had the basics down pretty well. It all had to do with unbreakable encryption, digital authentication, anonymouse remailing, and network untraceability. These were all computer networking techniques that had once been considered very odd and naughty. They were also so elementary to do, that once they were in place, they couldn't be stopped without tearing the whole Net down. And the meaty bit.. Of course, once these techniques were in place, they conclusively destroyed the ability of governments to control the flow of electronic funds, anywhere, anytime, for any purpose. As it happened, this process had pretty much destroyed any human control at all over the modern electronic economy. By the time people figured out that raging nonlinear anarchy was not exactly to the advantage of anyone concerned, the process was simply too far gone to stop. All workable standards of wealth had vaporized, digitized, and vanished into a nonstop hurricane of electronic thin air. Even physically tearing up the fiber optics couldn't stop it; governments that tried to just found that the whole encryption mess oozed swiftly into voice mail and even fax machines. So, sorry to subject you to my meandering... |
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Yay! Yet another MMORPG that requires huge time investments to even make you think you are having fun. Sign me up! Who is driving car?! Oh my god, bear is driving car! How can that be?
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Sure, offer preorders a special tin or something, but not more game features. Why not? I'd pay extra for a robust /ignore tool, for most activities on the net. "Hrrrm... demand?" *poof* "Supply!" On the flip side, a special tin is worthless crap. While access to extra features may well be actually worth the money. (Mind you, this is probably going to end up being a balancing nightmare and a source of relentless bitching, at first, for sure, for as long as the game is extant, maybe.) What's the problem? That people who don't pay, don't get the goodies? S.F.W.! All cars should come with power steering and A/C standard and ermine-lined glove compartments, too? |
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Desiato...the passages you quote there are, well...full of crap. I mean, really. Having worked for a business and banking law firm, and currently working at an economics research organization, and living with a custodial/institutional banker...sigh. I think game economies and virtual money and suchlike are really interesting, but Sterling is engaging in heavy "Wired magazine attention economy"-class flights of fancy here. |
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What's the problem? That people who don't pay, don't get the goodies? S.F.W.! All cars should come with power steering and A/C standard and ermine-lined glove compartments, too? All of those car features cost the car maker significantly more to add. Not nearly as much as they mark them up for the end buyer, but still. An /ignore feature in games such as SOF2 (which seems to be what you're always bitching about the lack of) on the other hand costs almost nothing in terms of development time. Very simple to add. I, for one, would be quite disappointed if Raven added that but charged $5 to access it. Anyway, I'm not surprised that you think the best game features should be available to the one willing to spend the most cash, considering you are a no-life Magic: The Gathering player. |
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Hugin - We agree, I never intended them as being prophetic. I work in a financial area as well and I'm well aware of the sudden regulatory and legal problems even taking the smallest steps to this fanciful description. It's more of a financial "nightmare" scenario, unlikely but compelling in that car-wreck kind of way. |
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Yo, dis be chillious, telling all my peeps out 'der to put da guns down, yo. Da precedin' done be a public service bah chillious, yoyo, bling. I beat the internet. The end guy is hard.
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Do you get what you pay for, or do you pay for what you get? |
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Personally, despite all the other issues being raised here, I think this whole pre-order business is a strange false concept that has no connection to real life need, and is in fact a dangerous habit to get into. Pre-orders make sense on a certain level where you are competing for a limited time sensitive resource such a a plane ticket. If you need to be somewhere at a certain time on a certain date, but must make use of a limited resource to get there, it makes sense to insure your travel plans by booking ahead of time. But games? I suppose on one level you could say pre-ordering shows support to a publisher for a certain product, which encourages them to do a good job, or allows them to predict anticipated interest for production runs, but on another level, you are telling the publisher that you don't care about quality. I think that it would be better to make them work for your dollar, force them to put a quality product on the shelf before they can even begin to start counting their eggs. Let them fear that if they put a stinker on the shelf, that they are going to take a major bath on it. |
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Yeah, pre-ordering has never made sense to me, when we're talking about a class of product that tens to not actually work on day one anyway. I can't remember ever buying a game the day it came out, or even seriously wanting to. Let alone purchasing sight and bugs and quality-unseen, well beforehand. Heck, I think sometimes there should be a significant discount given to those poor brave fools who are willing to be, essentially, beta testers of the new game. |
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The thing to understand about Shadowrun, is the game more or less encourages the land-grab, "go west young man" approach. The players who seize control of the most towns, earlier on in the game, will presumably be rather difficult to remove from power as they build larger towns with more defense, bigger purses, more phat lewts. So while there might not be any empires established in the first month, during which half the jaded population is waiting until about ten major bugfixes go in, there's going to be an awful lot of people getting stronger and forming guilds, ready to seize those reigns of power from the NPC population. Head start in the race, as it were. That probably registers as jack-shit all importance you or I, assuming you've got some firing synapses, but it drives the kiddiez batshit to think they might miss out on a chance to rule the world. To them, preordering isn't a good idea, it's requisite. I cannot tell if everyone in marketing is a polished, professional mormon, or just super-high on the coke dust.
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I got excited for half a second there Bailey, I'd certainly love to try out a Shadowrun MMoG, if someone made one. But I assume you meant Shadowbane. |
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jafd, your new sig rocks. That is all. So there.
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http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/product.asp?pf_id=216810 Interesting, EB have started preorders for DukeNukem Forever again, interesting because theyre usually madly wrong about things, but their last couple of preorders have been bang on the money for going gold. Those being Warcraft 3 and NeverWinterNights... COULD it be ? Ds Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
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The price is obviously wrong when you compare it to WC3 and NWN, so it can't be true. Ellen Feiss is my stoned goddess
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I'd imagine it could be true. Remember, the prices for NWN and WC3 were (initially) set by the publisher, not the retailer. And both those games were put out by French publishers, those greedy bastards! Who is driving car?! Oh my god, bear is driving car! How can that be?
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You can always blame the french. iamelectro
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I'm so proud of you guys and gals...you stayed mostly on topic for 40 posts! monty would be proud. As the characters races being special or just add crap for pre-ordering: 1. They were supposed to only be characters you got when you complete Uber quests...then you would have the opportunity to create Minotaurs and the like. 2. If the class are as powerful as the creators of Shadowbane of mentioned in the past, it will make a huge difference. (if this is less coherent then usual, take my apology in advance as I worked drywall all day today and I'm dead beat) I like pretending I can spell.
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You can download the EQ client from any one of a number of sources -- S.F.W.? Is there rampant piracy of EverQuest? No. Without a valid account key, welcome to shit creek. jafd, I know I am OT, but there is rampant EQ piracy throughout many countries which ain't USA - free servers with no auth. Yeah, right, those bastards don't get the "normal" content, but 90% or more (out-of-the-ass number, but it should be around accurate) of EQ crowd in Russia still play pirate. That's true for all (that I know of) other "server-authed" games, including D2, Q3, UO, etc - there are free server variants. You can't beat the pirates :( |
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Do people sell their stuff from these hacked servers on ebay? |
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I speculate this pre-order version doesn't even actually work at all, on any machine, and the people who wanted to get in early will end up having to wait for the fully patched version to come out... a fully patched version which will then allow the players to launch the game and discover a million new bugs... You know, it's going to be the habitual MMOG-release carnival. |
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jafd, I know I am OT, but there is rampant EQ piracy throughout many countries which ain't USA - free servers with no auth. UO maybe, but I'm not aware of a fully working working server emulator for any other MMOG. I've never even heard of such a thing for EQ, AC, DAoC, etc. Link? |
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Hugin I subconsciously try to get a rise out of Nova every chance I get. re: Warezed EQ Those foreign illicit servers don't have anywhere near the capacity for population, are often rampantly abused by their hosts, and are missing approximately 1/4 of the retail content. In this case, the pirates are beaten. Why would you play an assy ripped version of an already thrice-assy game? The mind BOGGLES. I cannot tell if everyone in marketing is a polished, professional mormon, or just super-high on the coke dust.
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See, there really should be a new Shadowrun game. MMORPG or not, the world needs it. Deus Ex is really the closest we get at the moment. Which is good, but that's Deus Ex, not Shadowrun. I want a shadowrun game that captures the whole high tech and low life scenarios. I want a shadowrun game where there is a full city to explore and live in. Almost like Warren Spector's 'full city block' idea, but bigger. Maybe not quite so detailed. But it would kick ass to have to truly work behind the scenes, to make your connections. If you've ever just sat down and read the seattle sourcebook... goddamn that would kick ass. It'd be nice to see some of the emerging chat bot tech used in a game, with game relevant information. Has anyone ever read anything about people doing that kind of thing? That would rock, to have to compose and ask your questions yourself. Except, in a more friendly way, unlike the age old text games where you practically had to guess the exact old sentence. It would rock to know that there was a detailed city, and to know that there might be that black clinic you need behind that 7 Eleven... but never knowing, and knowing that to just go in and ask too many 'odd' questions can get you busted. What would be really cool is to see a developer make a shadowrun engine, which ran all the game content and whatever, but then focus on releasing new episodes of old source books. Would fucking rock to be able to build up your char, make your connections, and then as you add new add ons, maybe have your fixer route you to a johnson that says "you know about the arcology... right?". Just the thought of that kind of thing makes me giddy with delight. And it might even work, if it were sort of a NWN style deal, except, without the suck. Done in a deus ex fashion. It'll be interesting to see how far the new unreal tech (especially prefabs and stuff like that) can take the ability to quickly whip out levels. I mean, if you could just get an 'office building' prefab set, you'd be able to whip up who knows how many corporate office runs... But you'd have to add in NPC generators, and stuff like that. The ability to fill in the world. </YAMMER> Gah. It'll never happen. We're not "Whinny," either, "Looser".
-MCorleone |
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And the funniest part folks, is I started writing that before Bailey's post. We're not "Whinny," either, "Looser".
-MCorleone |
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Bailey: 1, Nova: 0 I cannot tell if everyone in marketing is a polished, professional mormon, or just super-high on the coke dust.
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Nova you've just described something close to my dream game. Add a few strippers that you can wave money at and I think you have a winner! No longer must I sweep for you, for I am not your broom.
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Neocron? I cannot tell if everyone in marketing is a polished, professional mormon, or just super-high on the coke dust.
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There cannot be a Shadowrun MMORPG. You can't have enough NPCs to populate the world in such a way as the players actually feel "underground"... the players will always outnumber the so-called masses and that breaks the enviroment entirely. Shadowrun single player, or a NWN style game with many small servers I can see. MMOG I cannot. Jennie wept, "So I turning into a huge living tit? What the hell kind of cure is this anyway?!"
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Neocron's demo was really bad. Enough to warn me off the game. I didn't expect much, though it had originally piqued my curiosity. Of course, that might have just been because of the various "It's like deus ex!" comparisons. The demo proved it was anything but. We're not "Whinny," either, "Looser".
-MCorleone |
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My blather didn't necessarily imply MMORPG Foodbunny. I think there is a possibility for an MMORPG to capture that, but it's distant. 15+ years I'd think. We're not "Whinny," either, "Looser".
-MCorleone |
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Terata, not Daoc/AO I have to admit, the older games only. I'm trying to come up with a link to EQ emulator discussion in english... |
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Terata, here's one for example (there are few used in Russia, not exactly very public since Sony prosecutes illegal servers unlike EA/UO): http://eqemu.sourceforge.net/ But, as Bailey said, it's crap of course compared to oficially supported servers... Still, does not stop people who don't have money to pay (or credit card) from playing. |
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shadowbane is old and tired, with a dated graphics engine, a too-long development time, a marginal market appeal, and will be released (if ever) behind at least two second-gen MMOGs. on top of that, it's going to be run by a company with a spotty track record and zero real-world experience in the genre. they got more problems than this bullshit, honestly. *shrug* is it stupid? sure. but at this point, they have so little to lose, it's more of a "why not" sort of deal. "Everyone knows the best way to live life is to troll messageboards." --Warren Marshall
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Ah. I'm familiar with that project, and also one located at HackersQuest. I didn't realize any of them were to the point of actually, well, doing anything useful at all. |
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From the eB website: Duke Nukem is back, and Vegas is his new playground. That is, until the aliens bust up the opening of Duke's new casino! Stupid aliens! Duke Nukem Forever brings back the king of action in a highly anticipated game set to pummel players with unprecedented interactivity, variety, realism, and Duke's special whoop-ass brand of humor. DNF will push the limits of gaming and establish new standards in interactivity, variety, and pure fun. Scott, I hope with all your "ph4t m4rk3t1ng sk1llz" that YOU didn't write this blurb. Sounds like a $9.99 ValuSoft game. Stupid aliens, er, advertisers! Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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yotsuya: Sounds like a $9.99 ValuSoft game. and 9.99 valusoft games sell how well? honestly curious because i don't know. "Everyone knows the best way to live life is to troll messageboards." --Warren Marshall
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Meanwhile, I just recieved an e-mail from Endless Ages. As a result of your feedback we are opening a new server August 5th, 2002 that has never been played on. No Beta players, no one. Be one of the first to enter the realm of Endless Ages and join others in questing with your characters to become great warriors without the fear of Beta players that have achieved high levels during the testing phase of Endless Ages. We are very pleased with our Beta testers’ commitment to the game on the “Orlando" Beta Server and it was their commitment (not losing stats) that gave us probably one of the best Beta test ever done for an online game. Beta testers worked all aspects of the game to help us strive toward a bug free environment prior to going GOLD. We could not have done it without them. The “Orlando” server is going to be renamed to “Georgia 1” for gold. We also understood, from feedback, that many players do not want to enter a server where Beta testers’ characters are too strong. We therefore offer the “California 1" game server where all players enter a leveled playing field. So join us and all the other newbie’s on August 5th where the newbie’s are the most powerful characters roaming the lands of Endless Ages. Something about being so afraid of pissing off your beta testers that you'd rather open a new server instead of resetting the current one amuses me a great deal. The only entertainment I got from the beta the whole 5 minutes I played it was jumping insanely high and being able to lean so far back while running that I appeared to just be a set of tits attached directly to the hips. My uncle assures me that there is more to the game than that but I don't trust him. Jennie wept, "So I turning into a huge living tit? What the hell kind of cure is this anyway?!"
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Ah, haha hilarity. I wonder how many of those beta accounts are going to be sold within the first month. --
Rambar |
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crash: and 9.99 valusoft games sell how well? honestly curious because i don't know. Neither do I, but decide for yourself if there is a huge market for $9.99 ValuSoft games. Besides, my comment has to do with the quality of the blurb, not the game itself. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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Well, the thing is ... with value software, you don't have to have a huge market. You only get 3-4 months to make the game, it sells for under $20 and costs are minimal. I know a guy who worked in budget software and although the deadlines are ruthless, you can make a living at it if you can keep to your schedules. "It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
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I actually came across the E3 video for DNF today. Er, the one from '98, that is. They actually had a lot of content done at that point. EB says it ships January 1, 2003. Mind you, they also say that Team Fortress 2 is shipping February 14, 2003. Must have a thing for holidays, statutory or otherwise. "I don't bemoan the great paste" - LPMiller
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