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Cg: nVidious Plot or Graphical Revolution?
June 20th 2002, 01:55 CEST by m0nty Slipping in amongst the news of Morrowind, NWN and WarCraft 3, nVidia and Microsoft have unveiled what they claim is the strongest push yet to bring cinematic-quality real-time graphics from the movie screen to the PC. The introduction in version 9 of Microsoft's DirectX of a High-Level Shading Language (HLSL), revealed earlier in 2002 and which has just gone into beta, have been trumped by nVidia, which has announced a high-level programming language called Cg - short for "C for graphics". The common, familiar C-like syntax enables rapid development of stunning, real-time shaders and visual effects for graphics platforms, and is compatible with Microsoft's recently announced High Level Shading Language for DirectX® 9.0. With Microsoft around, you know there will always be standards issues (remember OpenGL?), and this is no different. Cg represents nVidia's latest salvo in its battle with ATI and other graphics card vendors for the hearts and minds of developers over their preferred programmable shaders and 3D APIs. The vendors have already started attacking each others' DX9 support, and Cg brings a whole new set of arguments about cross-platform implementation and proprietary technologies. Let the new standards war begin! If there is to be a war, nVidia surely have the metaphorical SoF2 briefcase camped beyond all hope of the terrorists escaping with it. In this interview with nVidia svengali David Kirk conducted by new Eurogamer offshoot Gamesindustry.biz, HLCL is even characterised as "Microsoft's own implementation of Cg", suggesting that nVidia is dictating terms to the dreaded Redmondians. Kirk fends off the inevitable question about incompatibility with non-nVidia hardware thusly: "Our compiler generates shader code and sends it to DirectX or OpenGL, and shaders are a standard, so they should run on any card that supports the shader standards, including our competitors? Besides, I think it's in our interest to make sure that Cg runs well on everything - we want people to really use this technology, and that's all about taking away their reasons not to... Making the compiler so that it didn't work well on ATI cards, for example, would be really bad for us too." Do you trust this man? Has nVidia created Cg out of the goodness of its heart, or is it really just another attack on its competitors? Does it matter, or should we just accept nVidia's dominance of the graphics card market? Will the majority of programmers choose Cg with all its supporting apps, or play it safe with the more limited HLCL? Will Cg become the new Glide - the troublesome rendering technology that was left behind when 3Dfx died? What does it mean for graphical engine makers, like id, Epic and Lithtech? What does this mean to games already in development: will they have to redo parts of their code? (Hi George B!) |
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Topic: Cg: nVidious Plot or Graphical Revolution?
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He's just misunderstood and too intellectual for the rest of us. Cue the NIN Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of the night. Light a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
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Now mom's gonna start stamping on the kitchen floor telling you to turn that crap down. Ashiran Just watch me Baileyboy. Will do, pony-boy. I'm making a cyberdifference in an eCommunity populated with iFolk- *HURK* suicide
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LPMiller I think I'll ask Warren if I can borrow a cup of What? Feel free, I brought enough for everyone. "It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
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See, the correct example would be a third party bestowing a zing on someone else' post: Such as Bailey's in 76. Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of the night. Light a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
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How about self-What?ing? Can I What? my own posts? Smashing!
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What? |
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#77 Awesome! Thanks, Warren. What? "Conductor Fist says the next stop is your face! Choo! Choo!"
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Nutty: No. You should do, what should be done, by you.
-Ancient Japanese Proverb |
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Why? as in, "Why God, why?" Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of the night. Light a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
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Why? Because the gun I've been working on that shoots people over the internet isn't finished yet. I'm making a cyberdifference in an eCommunity populated with iFolk- *HURK* suicide
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Yes. Both. The latter. Both. No. Not much. Nothing. Bailey: Beep beep, motherfucker.
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On the issue of game redefinition I haven't seen any comment that showed that people understood it as I do Finally something we can all agree on: nobody understands what the fuck you're talking about. We just differ on whose fault that is. |
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What exactly are games, anyway? Could someone give me a definition? Crash? Max? Smashing!
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games are entertainment that's designed to be fun, and sell well enough to adequately reward those that developed it so they can make more fun stuff. in my opinion. but then, i'm not a pseudo-intellectual that views games as some kind of higher power or subtle and powerful expressive medium for human understanding. i just think they should be fun to play. Whoops, sorry, was my common sense showing again? -HoseWater
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Back alley crack sex. Current market value of the Max Payne IP according to a comparison of the market capitalization of Take Two pre- and post- sale: approx. -$259,000,000.
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I found it interesting that the author of the Register story slams Cg throughout the article. It isn't until the end however, that we find that Codeplay is engaged in very similar work to what nVidia is trying to accomplish with Cg. Hmm.... Looking back at the byline, we notice that said author happens to be the founder of Codeplay. What's this? A competitor! Maybe we should take his comments with a large grain of salt. Alles in Butter, liebe Mutter!
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You should, without a doubt, take his comments with a large grain of salt. Not only is he a competitor, but anyone suggesting a fullscale C/C++ compiler for GPUs is off his rocker. In 4-5 years this may very likely not be the case, but some of us live in the now, where GPUs are great but the G still stands for Geometry, not General-purpose. The current market value of Matthew's sig: priceless. Smashing!
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Take something from the Register with a grain of salt? That's new... Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of the night. Light a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
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So, a buddy has read in the SF Chronicle (I can't find it anywhere else right now) that Circuit City is phasing out VHS movie sales. They'll still sell VCRs and blank videotapes, but movie sales will be strictly DVD format. |
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hooray for DVD!!!!! Does anyone still buy pre-recorded VHS tapes? I'd guess the sales numbers aren't that great except for kid movies like Harry Potter and Disney stuff. I have no facts to back it up but just a hunch that people who like movies enough that they'd buy them rather than rent them (with the kid exception mentioned since kids tend to watch the same dumb movies over and over because they are retarded), would own a DVD player and prefer to purchase the movie on DVD. Smashing!
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I pretty much stopped buying VHS about a year before I got my first DVD player, because I knew that it would be a waste of money and space, as I've been steadily converting everything on VHS I own to DVD. |
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Max conveniently declined to speak to either of my posts discussing his sweeping redefinition of genres twice in the original thread, I can't even remember the posts you're refering to. Geez MCorleone, even when he does respond, he doesn't respond. He doesn't rebutt; he re words. Why don't you ask yourself why I do that. I'm starting at the top and working down. If people are resistant, don't contribute, or can't explain why they think redefining "games" is wrong, don't expect me to peddle very hard. What exactly are games, anyway? Could someone give me a definition? Many things. That's the problem. They're self-contained worlds running to a defined set of rules and objectives. They can be used for learning, entertainment, or reflection, like any other medium. The difference is they're interactive. Unfortunately the perception of games is that while they might have something to offer at an intellectual and creative level they rarely step beyond immediate gratification. No helter skelter. No over the rainbow bad trip apocalypse. Just us and this moment now. This is how it ends.
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I pretty much stopped buying VHS about a year before I got my first DVD player, because I knew that it would be a waste of money and space, as I've been steadily converting everything on VHS I own to DVD. I can't wait to see what the format will be in 2-3 years that I'll do the same thing with my dvd's. |
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Well, the big difference for me is, while something may replace DVD as the hot format, my DVD's aren't getting noticeably degraded every time I watch them, I can pause without damaging them, etc. It's a lot more stable in the medium-to-long-ish term than VHS, assuming a geeky level of re-watching. |
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I bought two movies on VHS back in the day. Never watched them. Then I watched one of the movies I owned when it came on TV. That's when I decided to get rid of the tapes. |
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Since it seems destined to jump back to the redefinition of games ... [q]They can be used for learning, entertainment, or reflection, like any other medium. The difference is they're interactive. Unfortunately the perception of games is that while they might have something to offer at an intellectual and creative level they rarely step beyond immediate gratification.[/q] Why redefine the category of 'games' when this already is contained in the category of Interactive Multimedia? -Jon
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And I'm, frankly; getting sick and tired of the quote tag being not [q]. Fucking fucktags. -Jon
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What was that sig of your's crash? .... just *weary*? That sounds about right at this moment. -Jon
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yes, Duality. was: just... weary. Whoops, sorry, was my common sense showing again? -HoseWater
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Max - I did ask myself why you constantly answer questions with question, and change definitions to words instead of responding with actual debate. Gabe answered it for me - posting as performance art. Well, don't expect any NEA grants unless you start talking about your inner vagina and bathing in your own bodily wastes. I believe I can fly......urk.
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Whisp Looking back at the byline, we notice that said author happens to be the founder of Codeplay. A man above reproach, I'm sure. I'm making a cyberdifference in an eCommunity populated with iFolk- *HURK* suicide
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Why redefine the category of 'games' when this already is contained in the category of Interactive Multimedia? My main thrust of argument is the popular definition and perception of games is limited. Everything else flows from that. Unless that point can be accepted I can't see any progress being made here... No helter skelter. No over the rainbow bad trip apocalypse. Just us and this moment now. This is how it ends.
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If cG lets coders render this guy's head more efficiently, then I'm all for it. i need assertion devils inside my eye won't let up any motion
i need a surgeon devils inside won't cut me any slack |
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Did someone beat Emmitt Smith with a baseball bat? You should do, what should be done, by you.
-Ancient Japanese Proverb |
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Dunno...should we? I believe I can fly......urk.
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more efficiently? not really. Even with Cg you're going to burn a bunch of fillrate on the high-res textures required to get that "creepy foot licker" look. But in the right hands it could enable more advanced per-pixel lighting (now with BaldShine(TM) technology), not to mention hair effects (which would only apply to the facial hair on this guy). Smashing!
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#104 by LPMiller I did ask myself why you constantly answer questions with question, and change definitions to words instead of responding with actual debate. Gabe answered it for me - posting as performance art. I mix posting performance art with opinions. I like it. But, there is always a serious point being made. Answering a question with a question isn't something I do very often and is often a useful tool of discussion. I like to chew around with opinions and examine them from different angles. The mistake you're probably making is that you think I'm sucking people in to fool around with them. Performance aside, as I said earlier, always has a serious point behind it. I don't toy with people. I toy with ideas. For me, posting is a muse. No helter skelter. No over the rainbow bad trip apocalypse. Just us and this moment now. This is how it ends.
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For me, posting is a muse. See? You're doing it again. "Conductor Fist says the next stop is your face! Choo! Choo!"
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For me, posting is a muse. it's extremely amusing to me, too. so we have that in common. Whoops, sorry, was my common sense showing again? -HoseWater
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#112 by Ergo Don't be daft. Would it be clearer if I said forums were a muse? Sheesh. Cambridge International Dictionary of English an imaginary being or force that gives someone ideas and helps them to write, paint or make music. Consider also the origination of the word "museum." No helter skelter. No over the rainbow bad trip apocalypse. Just us and this moment now. This is how it ends.
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Sarcasm is lost on you, my friend. "Conductor Fist says the next stop is your face! Choo! Choo!"
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Wait, how are you defining sarcasm? Just what *IS* sarcasm? crash? Max? Smashing!
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A muse seems to imply something of artistic worth or value is being created..? Please stop using my web browser as a toilet.
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an imaginary being or force that gives someone ideas and helps them to write Obviously, it's not working very well for you... unless you grade based stricly on quantity. |
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hrm.. posting as performance art... Trolling for NEA dollars! woot! And one of the most annoying things is trying to eat fried rice while dodging the vegetables. Those lil sprouts get everywhere! iamelectro
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#48 - Lessee, I've got 128MB RAM, a GeForce 3, and a 550mhz P3. Grand Theft Auto 3 runs marvelously, aside from all the virtual memory swapping if I move from one 'island' of the city to another. My super-sophisticated analysis & conclusion: nVidia 0wnz ATI. With or without Cg. ODBhuddist
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Somebody get a rope and one of those dogs with the rum... Max Diablos has fallen into a sarchasm and can't get out! i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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My wife buys VHS because, quite frankly, DVDs scare her. I'm the opposite. I only buy DVD, but not if it is not available in a Widescreen format. This is why I don't own The Karate Kid, National Lampoon's Vacation, or Purple Rain on DVD. I love watching films in the proper aspect ratio, even on my 27 inch TV. It's so wierd, but movies that I have grown up on that I now watch the way they were originally filmed is just so new and exciting to me. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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This is why I don't own The Karate Kid, National Lampoon's Vacation, or Purple Rain on DVD. I can think of a few other good reasons not to own those. Please stop using my web browser as a toilet.
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Beauty is in the eye of the nostalgic, Bailey. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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