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Cg: nVidious Plot or Graphical Revolution?
June 20th 2002, 01:55 CEST by m0nty Slipping in amongst the news of Morrowind, NWN and WarCraft 3, nVidia and Microsoft have unveiled what they claim is the strongest push yet to bring cinematic-quality real-time graphics from the movie screen to the PC. The introduction in version 9 of Microsoft's DirectX of a High-Level Shading Language (HLSL), revealed earlier in 2002 and which has just gone into beta, have been trumped by nVidia, which has announced a high-level programming language called Cg - short for "C for graphics". The common, familiar C-like syntax enables rapid development of stunning, real-time shaders and visual effects for graphics platforms, and is compatible with Microsoft's recently announced High Level Shading Language for DirectX® 9.0. With Microsoft around, you know there will always be standards issues (remember OpenGL?), and this is no different. Cg represents nVidia's latest salvo in its battle with ATI and other graphics card vendors for the hearts and minds of developers over their preferred programmable shaders and 3D APIs. The vendors have already started attacking each others' DX9 support, and Cg brings a whole new set of arguments about cross-platform implementation and proprietary technologies. Let the new standards war begin! If there is to be a war, nVidia surely have the metaphorical SoF2 briefcase camped beyond all hope of the terrorists escaping with it. In this interview with nVidia svengali David Kirk conducted by new Eurogamer offshoot Gamesindustry.biz, HLCL is even characterised as "Microsoft's own implementation of Cg", suggesting that nVidia is dictating terms to the dreaded Redmondians. Kirk fends off the inevitable question about incompatibility with non-nVidia hardware thusly: "Our compiler generates shader code and sends it to DirectX or OpenGL, and shaders are a standard, so they should run on any card that supports the shader standards, including our competitors? Besides, I think it's in our interest to make sure that Cg runs well on everything - we want people to really use this technology, and that's all about taking away their reasons not to... Making the compiler so that it didn't work well on ATI cards, for example, would be really bad for us too." Do you trust this man? Has nVidia created Cg out of the goodness of its heart, or is it really just another attack on its competitors? Does it matter, or should we just accept nVidia's dominance of the graphics card market? Will the majority of programmers choose Cg with all its supporting apps, or play it safe with the more limited HLCL? Will Cg become the new Glide - the troublesome rendering technology that was left behind when 3Dfx died? What does it mean for graphical engine makers, like id, Epic and Lithtech? What does this mean to games already in development: will they have to redo parts of their code? (Hi George B!) |
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Topic: Cg: nVidious Plot or Graphical Revolution?
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If cG lets coders render this guy's head more efficiently, then I'm all for it. i need assertion devils inside my eye won't let up any motion
i need a surgeon devils inside won't cut me any slack |
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Did someone beat Emmitt Smith with a baseball bat? You should do, what should be done, by you.
-Ancient Japanese Proverb |
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Dunno...should we? I believe I can fly......urk.
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more efficiently? not really. Even with Cg you're going to burn a bunch of fillrate on the high-res textures required to get that "creepy foot licker" look. But in the right hands it could enable more advanced per-pixel lighting (now with BaldShine(TM) technology), not to mention hair effects (which would only apply to the facial hair on this guy). Smashing!
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#104 by LPMiller I did ask myself why you constantly answer questions with question, and change definitions to words instead of responding with actual debate. Gabe answered it for me - posting as performance art. I mix posting performance art with opinions. I like it. But, there is always a serious point being made. Answering a question with a question isn't something I do very often and is often a useful tool of discussion. I like to chew around with opinions and examine them from different angles. The mistake you're probably making is that you think I'm sucking people in to fool around with them. Performance aside, as I said earlier, always has a serious point behind it. I don't toy with people. I toy with ideas. For me, posting is a muse. No helter skelter. No over the rainbow bad trip apocalypse. Just us and this moment now. This is how it ends.
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For me, posting is a muse. See? You're doing it again. "Conductor Fist says the next stop is your face! Choo! Choo!"
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For me, posting is a muse. it's extremely amusing to me, too. so we have that in common. Whoops, sorry, was my common sense showing again? -HoseWater
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#112 by Ergo Don't be daft. Would it be clearer if I said forums were a muse? Sheesh. Cambridge International Dictionary of English an imaginary being or force that gives someone ideas and helps them to write, paint or make music. Consider also the origination of the word "museum." No helter skelter. No over the rainbow bad trip apocalypse. Just us and this moment now. This is how it ends.
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Sarcasm is lost on you, my friend. "Conductor Fist says the next stop is your face! Choo! Choo!"
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Wait, how are you defining sarcasm? Just what *IS* sarcasm? crash? Max? Smashing!
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A muse seems to imply something of artistic worth or value is being created..? Please stop using my web browser as a toilet.
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an imaginary being or force that gives someone ideas and helps them to write Obviously, it's not working very well for you... unless you grade based stricly on quantity. |
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hrm.. posting as performance art... Trolling for NEA dollars! woot! And one of the most annoying things is trying to eat fried rice while dodging the vegetables. Those lil sprouts get everywhere! iamelectro
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#48 - Lessee, I've got 128MB RAM, a GeForce 3, and a 550mhz P3. Grand Theft Auto 3 runs marvelously, aside from all the virtual memory swapping if I move from one 'island' of the city to another. My super-sophisticated analysis & conclusion: nVidia 0wnz ATI. With or without Cg. ODBhuddist
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Somebody get a rope and one of those dogs with the rum... Max Diablos has fallen into a sarchasm and can't get out! i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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My wife buys VHS because, quite frankly, DVDs scare her. I'm the opposite. I only buy DVD, but not if it is not available in a Widescreen format. This is why I don't own The Karate Kid, National Lampoon's Vacation, or Purple Rain on DVD. I love watching films in the proper aspect ratio, even on my 27 inch TV. It's so wierd, but movies that I have grown up on that I now watch the way they were originally filmed is just so new and exciting to me. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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This is why I don't own The Karate Kid, National Lampoon's Vacation, or Purple Rain on DVD. I can think of a few other good reasons not to own those. Please stop using my web browser as a toilet.
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Beauty is in the eye of the nostalgic, Bailey. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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Tell it to Ralph Macchio, kitsch king. Please stop using my web browser as a toilet.
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Purple Rain, tho... ...mmmm Apollonia... Whoops, sorry, was my common sense showing again? -HoseWater
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I thought Richard Grieco was kitsch king? Build a man a fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of the night. Light a man on fire and you'll keep him warm for the rest of his life.
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Heh. You said Ralph Macchio. Seriously, is he in one of those "David Cassedy- Oh my god, playing on that show/in that movie ruined my career because no one takes me seriously?" modes? Yeah. Heay Ralph, check out Tom Hanks, Ron Howard, John Travolta, and Tom Cruise to see how taking your CRAFT seriously by choosing the right roles can negate the "Bosom Buddies" "Richie Cunningham" "Vinnie Barbarino" factor. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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Ralph Macchio was da bomb in My Cousin Vinny, yo. Smashing!
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No, Joe Pesci made THAT film. I'm curious, because I've seen this a lot (not that this is what you were implying, Bailey). What's wrong with buying movies, books, games, cd, etc. for nostalgia's sake? I've been on other boards where someone says something like, "I bought some GI Joe episodes on DVD today" and people start ripping that person because "That's so 80s" or "Why that? The animation sucks." So? If I liked it 15 years ago, where is it written that I can't like it now, even if I see all the faults and cheesiness I may not have seen back then? If I liked Barry Gordy's The Last Dragon when I was in the 7th grade, why would buying the DVD make me some kind of creep? Just wonderin'. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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Who is the master? Funk. |
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Sho'nuff. Smashing!
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If it makes you feel any better yotsuya, I've picked up all 3 volumes (the first season) of Transformers released by Rhino so far. With a few exceptions where I can't hold my suspension of disbelief, its still really fun to watch. -Jon
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Hey I own that movie on DVD, I actually met Taimak when he lived on the upper west side! "Every legend, moreover, contains its residuum of truth, and the root function of language is to control the universe by describing it."
-James Baldwin |
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I fondly remember The Last Dragon, which is why I'd never watch it again, so many years later. How could it ever live up to my golden childhood memories? That's my approach to nostalgia, in any case. If it's your money, and you wanna spend it, please, stimulate the economy. I'm certainly not going to hold it against you, but if you start rambling about how the lastest DVD of Thundercats kicked Mumm-Ra's ass, I'm certainly going to voice an alternative opinion on the matter. As for Karate Kid, I thought it was pretty crappy the first time I saw it, hence my original angle of snide commentary. Please stop using my web browser as a toilet.
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I am all in favor of buying DVDs for nostalgia's sake (especially since many are 10-15 bucks) but I can never endorse purchasing The Last Dragon. With the exception of the Shogun parts, that movie was a giant sack of smelly ass. there is no emoticon for my spite
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Sho'nuff! I made the mistake of catching it on HBO...good lord. I believe I can fly......urk.
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Goonies and Big Trouble in Little China help up to my nostalgia, particularly the latter, which is actually funnier and better now than it was then. The last dragon, regrettably, joined the Blade Runner director's cut, and the first DVD release of Seven that you had to flip over mid-movie, on my "watch once, never touch again" list (though I haven't actually thrown it away, the way I did those two). -chris |
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Heh. You said Thundercats. I never liked Thundercats. I was a Voltron/GI Joe/Transformers/Robotech man myself. Speaking of nostalgia, if you liked Tron, get the DVD. Not only does it have fascinating extras, but the colors do not bleed the way they do on VHS. It looks great. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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The Last Dragon is STILL great. I mean, c'mon, Sho'Nuff be the shogun of Harlem, how do you top that? |
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with large caliber weaponry, and a steady aim. I believe I can fly......urk.
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I bought Tron on DVD. A week later they announced the special edition. Hate that. |
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All your World Cup are belong to us. "Every legend, moreover, contains its residuum of truth, and the root function of language is to control the universe by describing it."
-James Baldwin |
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AF- Are you serious? Bummer :P That's why I have resisted buying films like Raging Bull or The Wild Bunch on DVD. I'm afraid once I buy these older DVDs, they'll announce a super-mega-version and I'll have to buy that too. Because you know I will. Like I already know I'm buying AotC in November, and Episode III after that. Then, 1 year later, watch them release the other 3 Star Wars movies as individual DVDs. Then, 1 year after that, the super-mega-deluxe box set that will have all six flms and an extra DVD not available anywhere else (Previews of Episode VII, probably). Gotta get them all. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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chris That 'flippiing the DVD over' shit is truly annoying. I have 2 DVD's like that ... Seven and Stargate. I don't know why anyone would print a DVD in that format. "It's pretty common for pussies, dumbasses, and their families to blame their problems on vague influences like the media and society. The truth is, fuck you."
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Warren - Fortunately, the special edition of Seven is so worth buying that you almost want to buy it twice. Once Fincher really got interested in the DVD productions of his movies, he proceeded to turn out at least two of the best special editions on the market. -chris |
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What, did he somehow make that movie good or what? "It goes without saying that technical proficiency should be the first acquistion of a student who would be a fine pianist." - Sergei Rachmaninov
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IWLB - meh, imho it's a solid movie. It's not brilliant, other than on a technical level anyway, but I certainly wouldn't call it bad. -chris |
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AF- Are you serious? Bummer :P Yeah. My thinking was that nobody liked Tron enough to warrant a special edition, so I might as well just pick up the shitty edition. Same thing happened with Platoon, but I kind of saw that one coming. |
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It has atmosphere and very good art direction (copied in absurdum afterwards), I give it that. Oh, and pretty good acting, but the script and pacing is horrible. When Kevin Spacey hands himself into their hands, it just makes the whole movie up to that point totally worthless. It wasn't even very suspenseful in the end either. Oh, almost forgot the IMO. There. "It goes without saying that technical proficiency should be the first acquistion of a student who would be a fine pianist." - Sergei Rachmaninov
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That 'flippiing the DVD over' shit is truly annoying. I have 2 DVD's like that ... Seven and Stargate. I don't know why anyone would print a DVD in that format. I don't think dual-layered discs were in the original spec (I know some of the old DVD players can't read them), so they had to use both sides of the disc to fit the movie. Not that I don't hate having to flip it over mid-feature -- just saying. I don't mind double-sided DVDs if one side's an alternate, pan & scan version of the film. Having the choice is kind of neat. |
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AF- I agree. However, I like what they did with Shrek- They gave you 2 DVDs- one widescreen, one standard. Both had different special features on them, so it's not like the second disc was totally wasted. Does anyone know if they re-released Goodfellas? I know from research you had to flip it over. Personally, I think it would ruin the flow of the film to have to flip it over. It's not like my 2 Disc "The Ten Commandments" DVD, where you have a clear intermission point. Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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Goodfellas is supposedto be re-released, but there hasn't been a date set last I heard. Kind of in the same boat as Office Space, where a re-release has been announced in some form (supposedly for this year), but there hasn't been any news of it since...and its so tempting with the original OS so cheap, but I know if I buy it, they'll set the date the day after... "I don't want to be immortal through my work, I want to be immortal through not dying." -Woody Allen
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Dual layer came out later, but was always planned for DVD. It just didn't make it in time for release. What's sad though, is some companies STILL release flipper disks. I just had to get a new player, because my Pioneer 503 kept spitting out discs at the layer change. Happened more with Disney films than any other kind though. I believe I can fly......urk.
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Really? Which recent films are flippers? Arizona Diamondbacks 2001 World Series Champions
"It's all about positioning! So assume the position!" JMCDaveL |
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I dunno, I don't log them by name and date of release. But if you read www.digitalbits.com you'll hear 'em bitch about it now and then. I believe I can fly......urk.
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