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Max no longer a payne for 3D Realms
May 24th 2002, 18:09 CEST by Matt Davis Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. has Announced Max Payne 2 Is In Development, and in something of a surprise they've also purchased Max Payne's Intellectual Property Rights from Remedy Entertainment and Apogee Software for the measly sum of $10 million in cash and 969,932 shares of restricted common stock. Take-Two also announced that it has acquired ownership of the Max Payne brand and all intellectual property rights associated with the brand, including trademarks, copyrights, characters, perpetual license to utilize proprietary technologies, including the Max Payne game engine and associated "Bullet Time(TM)" technology, and rights to license fees from ancillary Max Payne brand extensions such as cinema, television and literary productions. You can see the full statement here So is this some pocket money for George and Scott? Does this to allow DNF to stay in development for longer? or did Apogee decide that theres room for only one virtual ego in the office? |
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Topic: Max no longer a payne for 3D Realms
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Jeez Mr. Touchy. Link != topic. I've no idea what I'm doing out of bed.
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You must have been posting off topic or something. You know how things are so tightly controlled. Having said that....wtf? Did we do something wrong? © 1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
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I think, was a successful application of 3DR's stated thrust towards development of IP opportunities as opposed to games. They spent FAR less time on Max than they do on a game they develop in-house. Why spend all that time actually making the game when you can develop a property instead? It's good business So does that mean Idea Men™ are actually a GOOD thing?! Chris DiCesar: What we want to do is we want to do it, and we want to do it right. So, the fact of the matter is, that we do see it happening, but when it is happening is still up in the air.
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garin Goldeneye. The Magic 8-Ball disagrees with what you wrote. The Magic 8-Ball is technically just an 8-ball in a sock I like to swing at people who voice opinions I find contrary to my own. Hugin I maintain that Mortal Kombat captured the flavor of the game and it's characters pretty well, and was stupid in merely the same ways Mortal Kombat the game itself was stupid. Fearing humanity more than ever now, thanks. Life without shame.
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SCOTT MILLAR IS MAKIN MOD AND KNEEDS CODERS 2 HELP!! HELLO D00DS MY NAME IS SCOTT MILLAR. IM GOING TO MAKE A MOD FOR THE FPS GENRE CALLED "Min Exlax" ITS ABOUT A GUY WHO DIDNT GET ENOUGH LAXITIVES SO HIS FACE IS KRUNKED UP AND HES REAL MAD AND SHOTS PEOPLE UP!!!! WITH A GUN IN SLOW MOSION!! Smashing!
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sweet deal. now we know why Scott kept pimpin Take 2 stock. :) as for the deal... what happens to Remedy? do they work for Take 2 now, or 3DR, or both? or is 3DR like a consulting producer or something for Remedy to Take 2? what does this change for Remedy? that's what i wanna know, and the PR doesn't say. the only reference in the PR was the "working on MP2 in conjunction with Remedy Entertainment." so what, are they consulting on it or something? and how much (say, as a percentage) did Remedy receive outta this deal? a million shares of stock is a pretty significant chunk of change, not to mention the up-front 10m. one thing this does do, though, is allow Take 2 to put other people on the MP "franchise" and port it to whatever whenever without Remedy having to code anything, i'd imagine. or do expansion packs, or mission packs, or whatever. kinda like 3DR does with the DN stuff--farm out the concept to other dev teams so they can crank out product with that name on it, and everyone wins. i know what Take 2 bought here--it's clear as glass. but what i'm curious about is how does this impact Remedy? other than possibly/probably throwin down a pretty nice windfall? and, more to the point--what are they working on next? just... weary.
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Lets just hope that Remedy has gained the level of independance that allows them to tell publishers to go fuck themselves if it comes down to shipping an unfinished product. I imagine TT would be pretty sensitive about things like that since they have to answer to people who do not take 'when its ready' as an acceptable guestimate. I really do wish Scott or Petri who is no longer Scotts bitch, would jump in here and lay out how things are now. © 1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
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Let's all be Scott's bitch! I've no idea what I'm doing out of bed.
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If Max Payne is such a great long term brand, why does the series have nowhere logical to go? After doling out vengence for killing your family, what could Max Payne possibly do in Max Payne 2 that would be worthwhile? Go after some street pimps? I wouldn't touch Take 2 stock with a ten foot pole right now. They still have all sorts of things to worry about regarding their accounting troubles, SEC investigations, etc, etc. Smashing!
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Batman for the NES was, in my opinion, one of the best 2d platformers on the NES. Came from Sunsoft from around the same time as Blaster Master. It was based loosely on the movie, sort of. Yah! Nathan |
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If you can sell something as ephemeral as intellectual property for $35 million, I say good on ya. I personally think Scott overstates the value of branding, but if he can con Take 2 into coughing up like this he deserves a pat on the back. Max Payne 2 may sell okay based on name recognition, but if it's a crap game it won't be a best seller and there won't be a Max 3. Same goes for Duke Nukem. Each iteration succeeds because it's fun, not because of character branding and name recognition. That may drive some pre-orders, but it won't get you to a million units. Take 2 now has the right to make a game, movie, cereal, and whatever else they want and slap the Max Payne name on it. Big deal. They still have to make a good game/movie whatever or it will flop. Meanwhile Remedy can make whatever they want and pocket the cash they just conned Take 2 out of. They can make Max Payne 2 only with a different main character, and if it's fun and successful they can maybe sell the sequel rights to Take 2 again. |
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I don't think Take 2 is getting conned. I think it's the Take 2 investors who are, and Take 2 is in on it. That's just what it appears to be on the surface. Marketing is a crutch for mediocrity and a handicap to excellence.
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Bailey, look at Mortal Kombat the dumb fighting game, then look at the movie. Look at Street Fighter the dumb fighting game, then look at it's movie. Look at Double Dragon the dumb fighting game, then look at it's movie. Of those three movies based on dumb fighting games, Mortal Kombat far and away got more salient character details and basic atmospheric elements "right". It's not a good movie. But it's a pretty good translation of the dumb game it's based on. |
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Batman for NES matched the gloominess of the first movie, and had a kickin soundtrack to boot! -RAWWWWWRRRRRR!!! Quit cramping my style, bitch! RAAAAAWWWRRRR!!!
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I dunno if I would use the word "good" in relation to any part of Mortal Kombat: The Movie. But that Bridgette Wilson is pretty cute, as is Talisa Soto. Smashing!
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Hugin I'm just lost as to how an accurate translation of crap game to crap movie is "good". I understand what you're saying, it was certainly a lot more accurate and true to form than the other two you mentioned, but... it's still crap. The least crappy of the three King Crapsters of Crappington, England. More of a Duke, really. I dunno, maybe this is why I don't get modern art. Life without shame.
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If you're a moviegoer looking for a "good movie", then go see something by Robert Altman or Ang Lee or something. If you're a huge fan of Mortal Kombat and want to see a Mortal Kombat movie, I think you're going to be pretty okay with what got made. It seems silly to me to ask that a derivative work in another medium should be markedly superior to it's source. |
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It should be noted at this time that I like fighting games, but never liked Mortal Kombat. So my acceptance of the movie is certainly based in part on my relative lack of respect for the source. |
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Also note that while Mortal Kombat was a financial success (relative) and actually not that bad of a movie, its sequel was absolutely putrid. -RAWWWWWRRRRRR!!! Quit cramping my style, bitch! RAAAAAWWWRRRR!!!
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Was it just me, or did the guy who was on "The Bachelor" look a lot like Max Payne? |
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Batman for the NES was, in my opinion, one of the best 2d platformers on the NES. Came from Sunsoft from around the same time as Blaster Master. It was based loosely on the movie, sort of. Damn you, I scrolled all the way to the bottom to post the same thing. Also, the Resident Evil movie was really cool. |
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where has Max to go in another game? the `illuminati` type guy and the video tape Max picked up of said guy boning the now dead hooker, and I believe there were `kinky` overtones to it as well. and with his rivals dead and his fellow illuminati types also dead, that puts him in a very nice position to manipulate an awful lot. that and he played Max like a cheap guitar. Ds Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
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If Max Payne goes for 10 million, how the hell much is the Grand Theft Auto brand worth? |
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"Erik" Hopefully enough for them to hold onto and keep making such great games. I don't know bout anyone else, but Take2 buying the IP to Max just puts of a bright flashing neon sign that says, "Max is going to be pimped everyway we can now!". LPMiller - "Really, I'm just a get along kinda a guy, all about the love."
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You mean the way that 3DRealms do ? Seriously, I've always been the first to point out that just cos Scott (and sometimes George) bangs on about the IP/brand aspect of Duke doesn't necessarily mean that DNF will be crap because there are other people working on it, who are possibly more dedicated to their art. But when I read shit like this, I really do wonder. Jafd! Warren! Stop bickering or I'll be forced to change your opinions manually!
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The really funny aspect of Scott's branding rants is that 3D Realms has allowed quite a few really, really, REALLY bad Duke Nukem games to be released since the original Duke3D (mostly console games). The flipside of branding is that if you keep hoisting shit onto the public they will eventually stop eating it no matter how well you brand it. Smashing!
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72: Hey, someone needs to tell that to 3DO so they'll stop the number of Army Men titles at 34 (or whatever it is at now) "My main objective is to be professional but to kill him. That's what it comes to. He should want to kill me because I want to kill him. But I still love him." -Mike Tyson, waxing philosophic about Lennox Lewis.
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Chris Johnson: thank god they didn't stop at Army Men 33, because Army Men: RTS is big fun. i like monkeys. are you a monkey?
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"I wouldn't touch Take 2 stock with a ten foot pole right now." You're kidding, right? They own the IP for GTA, Max, Railroad Tycoon, Tropico, State of Emergency, etc., and they're publishing Duke Nukem Forever. Take 2 is hot now. Remedy is working on Max 2, Crash. That's next for them. They're independant, but I'm sure they're contractually obligated to do Max 2. After that, who knows? |
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Take 2 might be hot in terms of the game 'brands' Scott likes to talk about, but you are aware of course they are under investigation by SEC? Accounting practices? Looks like a mini-Enron brewing? If you want the Take 2 stock, fine...buy it! Smashing!
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Where's that fake Broussard when we need him? |
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I'd actually argue that Mortal Kombat was a good movie There was a sequel to it... Is it the crap action flick with Chris Lambert? It was an abomination...it made me laugh all the time... The cheese was strong in this one... I didn't bother with even renting the sequel though... Street Fighter too, it also made me laugh, unintendedly... Look it's the red hokey gimp team that gets shot at by the blue team, in the homo-herotic locker room! |
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I just caught part of Double Dragon on TV the other night. I'm still in shock. ....Don't be Left with the chimps. Evolve with us...
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If Max Payne goes for 10 million, how the hell much is the Grand Theft Auto brand worth? Take Two already own all of the GTA brand, have done since the days of the first game. Picked it all up for a bargain price too. |
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Sounds like they "positioned" a good chunk of cash into 3dRealm's coffers. --jmc
ICQ-121684 AIM-jmcdavel U=FAG0T |
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I'm not gonna post in this thread again...but... [q]So, how much of the 10 million cash do you figure was kicked back to the Take Two guys who brokered the deal?[/q] Zero. It was 3DR and Remedy who initiated the deal. Matt Davis, [q]measly sum of $10 million in cash and 969,932 shares of restricted common stock. [/q] Measly? $10M cash. The stock is worth $26M now. And there are considerable "development incentives". All told, the deal will be worth in the mid 40's. That's what Shiny sold their entire company, ip's, The Matrix rights, and tied up Dave Perry for long term contracts. Remedy and 3DR walk away from this 100% intact and Remedy is not completely independent of financial pressure from any publisher. The plan was to probably sell Max after a second game anyway, but after the first game sold so well (2.7 million units and counting), we all thought that now was a good time to sell the franchise. Maybe it will be worth far more in the future. Maybe not. But this was a guaranteed bird in the had, and again, it set Remedy up for life. |
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Crash, what happens to Remedy? do they work for Take 2 now, or 3DR, or both? Remedy is as independent today as they were yesterday. the only reference in the PR was the "working on MP2 in conjunction with Remedy Entertainment." so what, are they consulting on it or something? Remedy and 3DR will finish Max 2 for Take 2 like we did with Max 1. Exact same situation. Nutty, After doling out vengence for killing your family, what could Max Payne possibly do in Max Payne 2 that would be worthwhile? Go after some street pimps? Sam Lake has written an excellent plot for the second game. It's all taken care of. I wouldn't touch Take 2 stock with a ten foot pole right now. They still have all sorts of things to worry about regarding their accounting troubles, SEC investigations, etc, etc. You're missing out on free money then. Take 2 is doing better than most everyother game company, on stock, at the moment. Max 2, GTA 4 and other upcoming games ensure that success. |
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I'm also amazed at the biased slant of this article. This is a great deal for Remedy and 3DR and it's a great deal for all developers. It demonatrates what Scott and I have said for years. IP's are worth gold. You don't have to sell your entire company, and give up independence, and sign long term work agreements. You just have to build a successful ip and hold onto it until the time is right. I only hope that other developers see this and think twice before selling their entire company and tying themselves up for 3-5 years. |
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IP's are worth gold, yet idea men are worthless. Funny how that works, eh? Marketing is a crutch for mediocrity and a handicap to excellence.
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It's about friggin' time someone besides mOnty got a shot a topic. All mOnty's crap boils down to the same phrases, the same adjectives, the same desperate stretch for mundane, prolixious verbosity regarding a stupid premise. BTW, 3DRealms couldn't manage a chicken shit scavenger hunt in a Taiwanese monastary. Now we're gonna make a new rule. When you hear me typing..."
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When things like this happen, you really have little choice but to acknoledge that whatever it is they are doing, it works really, really well. Fortunately, I've never put up as much resistance as others. Tomorrow morning, I don't imagine any of us, in fact, all of us combined would win a bank account competition with them. Compared to our words and ideas, they have concrete proof of their concepts. © 1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
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Shadaar, If you can sell something as ephemeral as intellectual property for $35 million, I say good on ya. I personally think Scott overstates the value of branding, but if he can con Take 2 into coughing up like this he deserves a pat on the back. This shows just how little people understand the value of an ip. You know that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was sold for $100 million? IP's are the most valuable thing out there. They are what make large movie companies, or music companies wealthy beyond compare. It's interesting to note that Michael Jackson bought the rights to all the Beatles songs for something like $45M. When Raven was sold for 12million or so it was mainly for the studio. They could have gotten far, far more if they had any real hit brands. Westwood sold for over $100M, but they had C&C and a couple other brands (plus a couple hundred person studio). Recently, Ensemble was sold for something like $100M to Micosoft. That was the Age brand, plus an 80 person studio and nice million dollar office space. But all of the above companies could have sold the brands for slightly less, and still maintained their companies and independence and probably been working on new games now. But now they are owned, lock, stock and barrel. id, Epic or Valve could sell ip's for massive amounts of money. I bet CounterStrike is worth more than Max is. |
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This shows just how little people understand the value of an ip. You know that Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was sold for $100 million? Note that a valuable IP does not guarantee a valuable end product. Life without shame.
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George, the problem I'd have with buying IP only is that without the original developers, how can I be sure that the IP will hold its value? Brands fade. Is Tomb Raider worth what it once was? How good is the Total Annihilation IP if TA2 is being developed in Korea instead of by Chris Taylor? If I were Take 2, I think I would have locked Remedy and 3DRealms into at least a couple of Max games. Heck, look at how fast the IP for Myth fell apart after Bungie was no longer handling it. Take 2 owns the Myth IP and they destroyed it with one crappy game. Gamers aren't stupid. They know the magic in Myth came from Bungie. I think Take 2 overpaid for what they got. They should have locked you into at least a Max Payne 3. |
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Nothing lasts forever, but this was a great move for all parties. Max 2, unless it's programmed by blind midgets using only small stones to represent binary code, will be a sure fire hit. Even if it is the exact same game, it will be a hit. Plus, Remedy and 3DR are still Remedy and 3DR, not "A division of Take Two". How much is independence worth, anyway? So take two gets future earnings, and the devs get cash in hand now, cash in hand when they ship, and a lot less hassle. I don't see the problem. I believe I can fly......urk.
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Street Fighter 2, the Japanase anime... now that rocked.. |
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The 'Japanese' one was cool also.. |
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thank god they didn't stop at Army Men 33, because Army Men: RTS is big fun. Perhaps so, but it could have easily been another RTS with an original idea for the background of it, and gotten rid of 32 other really bad Army Men titles in the interim. I think Take 2 overpaid for what they got. They should have locked you into at least a Max Payne 3. The beauty of that is, Take 2 needs to worry about that. Plus they don't necessarily have to have someone besides Remedy do a Max3, if they decide to do one. It's perfectly feasible that Remedy could say, "Yeah, why not, let's do a third go 'round with Max, the little nipper." It's just now, they don't HAVE to. That's a beautiful thing, really. (How does first right of refusal work with Remedy/Max anyways, if you can say, people in the know?) Q:How man surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Fish! |
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I hear Japanase is good on sandwiches, and in Europe they eat their French Fries with it. Q:How man surrealists does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Fish! |
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Look, it's not like George or Scott somehow owe you guys anything or have broken some sacred covenant with you and the rest of gamerdom because they decide they want to be successful and make money. I swear people act like 3DR is some type of fucking demon shitspawn. Let them do whatever they want, whether that be making games or acting as an associate producer to other game developers. What do you want them to do, come out and ask all of gamerdom if its okay whenever they make a business decision? Discussions like this amuse me . . . "It's a bird! It's a plane! Oh shit, It knows we're home!"
-Chris Johnson |
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