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Trojans V Spartans, Part DCLXVI
April 28th 2002, 18:06 CEST by m0nty Most Web users would be familiar with the old browser wars, which were at their most virulent when Microsoft Internet Explorer and Netscape Communicator would continuously fight over your registry entry as to which was the default browser. The "adware" industry now has its own bloody battlefield, with AdAware and the Slashdot-inspired forces of good against the adware and spyware programs like Gator, CyDoor, Alexa and Comet Cursor, usually installed as "trojan horses" with free software sharing apps. The match-up was never going to be fought using Marquis of Queensberry rules, but the latest tactics have become downright dirty - striking at the installation of the programs themselves. LavaSoft's AdAware app has built a reputation for being a reliable anti-adware program, but it has suffered its own attack from a Slovenian-made applet called RadLight, an otherwise unremarkable DivX multimedia player which in its 3.03 version uninstalls AdAware, and includes a full disclosure of this within its 1100-word EULA. When installing RadLight, a document is displayed explaining that the program comes bundled with two "small optional programs from other companies." The programs include WhenU.com's SaveNow browser shopping "companion" and New.net's Web navigation plug-in. According to the document, "You are not allowed to use any third party program (e.g., Ad-aware) to uninstall application bundled with RadLight. Such programs will be removed." The anti-adware movement is responding with its own uninstall tactic, with a US college student calling himself Dr Damn releasing versions of the file sharing programs which usually carry the adware programs free of third-party software. Although he is apparently not the first to do this, the news of his work did get slashdotted, with some users even expressing distrust at Dr Damn's motivations. I'd be very suspicious of 'cleaned' applications floating about on p2p networks. Whilst it's likely the author had your best interests at heart there's some chance he didn't. It wouldn't be too hard to build a trojan into one of these, and if it were done well you could have your trojan version of kazaa send requests onto the network that immediately identify to anyone watching that it's an infected copy. Personally, this is yet another good reason for me not to use P2P networks. What about you, especially all you donkey riders? Are you prepared to have adware drones and anti-adware hacktivists fight over your registry? Are you going to read EULAs of freeware progs more closely in future? Is there anything more than comedic value in these shenanigans, or is there some important ideal actually being contested? |
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Topic: Trojans V Spartans, Part DCLXVI
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FUCK YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!! YOU WILL ALL DIE!!!!!! ah yes, that was good. My impression of a german is getting better and better. Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration. |
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Thinking... Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration. |
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Thinking... Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration. |
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Wow! Joker has begun the journey into thought! Congrats! ... These aren't the craps you're looking for ...
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If a EULA for a piece of software stated somewhere in the mire of disclaimers and statutory rights declarations that by installing the software you were giving the publishers the non-exclusive rights to drive your car about any time they liked - would anyone actually expect that as a clause for a piece of software? And more importantly, would it stand up in court? No, and No. Both for the same reason that clause has nothing to do with using the software. Adware is different tho since those third party apps are there to provide money to the creator (and it's resonable that a creator should be paied for his work). However most of these things end up using a much longer EULA then needed, then hidding what's installed at the very end. Needlessly making the contract longer in a blatent attempt to get people to stop reading before they get to the section they may not agree with. |
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Does joker ever talk about the topic on hand? Or is that beyond his grasp? On 2002-04-18 04:47:00 Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me." |
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I could mention something about bringing aligators into debates. But, I won't... professional philosophical level design monkey.
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If you actually knew the whole story you wouldn't be making comments sunshine. And that ends up making your point moot. On 2002-04-18 04:47:00 Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me." |
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The bottom line, is that if it is in the EULA, it is legit. Basically, you are getting free software, the reason you are able to get free software, is because it is financed on the back end with things like advertising. If you agree to let them install this stuff, then that is that, you agreed. The alternative, and this is just like the warez argument, is that you answer NO to the eula, and the setup program exits, and all is well. I don't fault the creators of this stuff for installing the crap, provided it is in the EULA. Installing a program that is supposed to be paid for by allowing them to do other things with your computer that you agreed to, then breaking it with something like ad-aware, is not cool. I do fault them for being sneaky about it. © 1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
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but not half as moot as your original "point" about alligators. It was either so dumb as to be incomprehensible, or so massively intelligent that it's beyond the abilities of us mere mortals to comprehend it. I know where my money's going, "sunshine" Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
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Damn you for breaking the continuity HoseWater. Damn you to heck! Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
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Neale ,.. I was involved in the topic of xbox.. before I got dragged out of it because someone can't keep their mouth shut and actually do as they say. But because I respond to him , I get blamed for it. 2 others did notice this. And I will repeat till the oceans dry out.. it takes 2 to tango. On 2002-04-18 04:47:00 Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me." |
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Leslie Nasser Thank you for putting up that SoF2 server last night, I had a great time. (grumbling) would have had more kills if it wasn't for everyone using FORCE PUSH to knock me off the stupid ledge. /puts on shiny cowboy hat and leaves to go alligator hunting. |
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Sorry man. It wont be much of a discussion if someone does not pick up the baton for the other side. :) © 1968-2002 Robert 'HoseWater" Lloyd
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But you really need 3 or 4 for a really rousing game of Twister. Will warez for food.
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Then for pity's sake - sit this dance out. Please Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
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Damn, #43 was me. |
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GOD DAMN IT! Will you all stop posting before I do?! Gargh! Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
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EvilAss Neale ,.. I was involved in the topic of xbox.. before I got dragged out of it because someone can't keep their mouth shut and actually do as they say. But because I respond to him , I get blamed for it. 2 others did notice this. And I will repeat till the oceans dry out.. it takes 2 to tango. I posted a link. I said nothing about the topic at hand, or the subthread that was going on and I certainly didn't say anything directly to you. I posted a link that you, for whatever reason, decided was an attack against your person and you started in on me. So in short, bugger off. WoT?
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In response to the original question posed at the end of the topic: I don't care. I run Ad Aware and Norton Firewall so I catch most of the junk. And I uninstalled Radlight and got BSplayer instead when I heard how Radlight worked. EOD. "that fatty crocodile! what a glutton!"
- Kayin |
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Warren it was an attack on me don't fucking lie. You used that same link before while we were arguing in another topic. And if that was aimed at someone else. Just say who it was about instead of fucking be so ambigous about it. On 2002-04-18 04:47:00 Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me." |
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Ash, does your lower jaw detach? just like your avatars does in the movie? Actually, I don't have a grudge against you.. I just felt like saying something mean ;| sorry you were the target. "If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -- Lewis Carroll
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#49 by Warren Marshall I posted a link that you, for whatever reason, decided was an attack against your person and you started in on me. It could be because A) you posted that link in another thread, more or less pointing to EvilAsh while doing so and B) posted it again after BobJustBob said that "Reading EvilAsh's post is like reading Emily Dickinson... it makes no sense and random words are capitalized.", wording your quote "I'm telling you ... Says it all." I'm in no way saying that Evil is innocent and IMNSHO he drew first blood, but also IMNSHO you are fueling the flames. Feel free to do so but don't go telling him to bugger of afterwards. "that fatty crocodile! what a glutton!"
- Kayin |
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Ash, does your lower jaw detach? just like your avatars does in the movie? Actually, I don't have a grudge against you.. I just felt like saying something mean ;| sorry you were the target. Me speakee good engrish. "If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -- Lewis Carroll
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Wording your post, not quote. "that fatty crocodile! what a glutton!"
- Kayin |
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I picked up the b3d projector somewhere else because I've never used kazaa, I wonder which program gave it too me? For those of you who are not webmasters i will tell you now what b3d projector is. Basically its a plugin used on a webpage to display movie-like animations. In the case of Kazaa its installed because Kazaa's website uses b3d advertisements and you need the projector to view them. There are sites out there that make cartoon episodes using the b3d plugin on their site for peoples enjoyment. As for the distributed computing component that was recently added to the projector you can read from brilliant's website that the Altnet computing features are purely optional which means they dont run automatically. You can read brilliant's privacy policy which may sound suspicious is not very different from most privacy policies around the globe. I am sure this will not convince most people but not everything you see is suspect. b3d projector is not spyware. It's just not easily removed like many types of software.. windows ;) |
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Martin ,I tried really. You know its funny. I went back through the archives and began reading From when Pc first came back with morn. And Looked at Warren's first posts. And I realized that he is not just an asshole to me. He has been pretty much an ass to everyone at some point in time. I also noticed that for about 9 months.. I had no problems with him. I noticed his flame wars with Jafd. And suprisingly no one else jumped in and went after jafd. I read other threads where he argued with other people and it was just him and that person. But after Andy disappeared and I was away for about 3-4 months when I returned and made that first post. That he took personally for some reason.. I still haven't found that specific post I made. I read about 2000 friggin posts over various threads and I still haven't found it. I wish Pc had a search feature. It would make it alot easier. Cause I would like to end this once and for all. On 2002-04-18 04:47:00 Some Sick fool said this.
"awww yeah, buzz baby, buzzzzz just for me." |
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What if Ad-Aware itself came packaged with spyware? Think of the killing Lavasoft could be making. |
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EvilAss Cause I would like to end this once and for all. Yes, so you keep saying. WoT?
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What if Windows came with spyware? The paranoid claim everything has spyware in some form or another. |
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EvilAsh: Not to argue against you and "attack" you (had to do it :) ), but you arguing with Warren isn't the same as jafd arguing with Warren. You're often vulgar, offensive for no reason, annoying and you argue like a troll, personal attacks instead of backing up your points. Now, when you aren't arguing with Warren, you aren't all bad... just relax, let it go and have fun. As for Warren... no comment. :) My .02 on the matter Change of business notice: New, pimping game love, from yours truly. Want to advertise your game on PC, but want to hear the pansies complain about 'pimping'? Just ask wzrd, your new neighborhood pimp...rates cheap, integrity not intact, no game to stupid!
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#56 by [dev]Mystic Color crazy (it's a kinda deep off red with swirling black), but I don't think I'll trust them when they say anything after they install software on my computer without telling my up front about, EULA or not. They tried to hide it, they don't want people to know it's there...that's plain wrong. Change of business notice: New, pimping game love, from yours truly. Want to advertise your game on PC, but want to hear the pansies complain about 'pimping'? Just ask wzrd, your new neighborhood pimp...rates cheap, integrity not intact, no game to stupid!
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Color me crazy... I even previewed...I think. Change of business notice: New, pimping game love, from yours truly. Want to advertise your game on PC, but want to hear the pansies complain about 'pimping'? Just ask wzrd, your new neighborhood pimp...rates cheap, integrity not intact, no game to stupid!
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EvilAsh; I have to say that you and Warren arguing isn't the same thing as jafd and Warren arguing. And even though it might sound so I'm not really defending you as you do deserve quite a bit of what you get, or more precisely, what you got. I'm actually more asking why everyone is picking on you, especially those that doesn't want you to post to begin with. The expression "it takes two to tango" applies as much to you as the rest of the guys that keeps trolling you back. In any case, the reson I even bother commenting on this is because I don't find it at all amusing to read all this useless mudslinging, no matter who's getting his or her hands dirty. Yeah, I'm tired and cranky and I'm going to have pancakes. "that fatty crocodile! what a glutton!"
- Kayin |
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What if Ad-Aware itself came packaged with spyware? Think of the killing Lavasoft could be making. Yeah, that's what I think... if you read the Salon.com article, they say it's one of those open things... I can easily immagine people contributing to the Ad-Aware source code, with thousands of spyware sub-routines hidden in it, or better they could writte code that will protect the spyware of the company they are employed at... (most people at ad-aware are students, people who do it off the day job and don't get money in return...) Not to mention the leading guy of Ad-Aware works very hard to withold the fact that he couldn't comprehend people make money from spyware and that he's looking up to getting paid for whatever he does. But the last phrase at the end of the interview just betrays him out... Money is an issue for Ad-Aware... Of course I'm overblowing it... it's just a bunch of hints and suspicion. |
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Part DCLXVI? So very nerdy, monty. "Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue"
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I appreciated it. I also thought Tragedy of Comics was clever too. Shrug. I don't live near any live alligators either. |
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Color crazy (it's a kinda deep off red with swirling black), but I don't think I'll trust them when they say anything after they install software on my computer without telling my up front about, EULA or not. They tried to hide it, they don't want people to know it's there...that's plain wrong. keep in mind kazaa packaged it not brilliant. |
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#66 by Dumdeedum Part DCLXVI? So very nerdy, monty. Please elaborate, my tired brain is not operating right now. "that fatty crocodile! what a glutton!"
- Kayin |
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666 |
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What HoseWater said. If these programs want to install adware, as long as it's in the EULA, let 'em and move on if you don't like it. If someone feels that not including specific mention of any adware in the EULA is illegal, take the company to court (or find someone who will) and see if the law agrees with you, else move on. I have Ad-Aware, I run it and like HoseWater, it turns up a few cookies (although that is rare now that I have IE prompt me before accepting 3rd party cookies), but I don't have Kazaa or Morpheus. I never had Napster and installed RealPlayer all of once when I didn't know better about two versions of Windows back. If you want to use the Internet to grab gigabytes of movies, mp3's and whatnot (leaving aside the legality of said files), that's great...but nothing is free. Really. The number of apps out there that are bonafide free, no strings attached, nothing wanted in return is pretty damn small. Some people should remember that before getting into a lather about adware. Paying an ISP a monthly fee does not give you carte blanche to the entire contents of the Internet without giving up anything at all in return. Sorry, the world just ain't that giving and generous. :) As for EvilAsh vs. PC, may I kindly ask the people who continue to argue with him to shut the fuck up? You are not adding anything useful to the discussion, you are not being witty or insightful, you are doing exactly what you have accused him of doing -- trolling. Warren is the worst. He seems to have elevated himself in the matter but can't resist always trying to get in the final word. If you really wanted it to end, Warren, you'd just shut up about it. Period. And clearly you can't or don't want to do that. I am getting tired of slogging through this bullshit in virtually every thread on PC now, especially when there is no way to avoid it when the mudslinging is sandwiched between legit comments in the thread. Whatever, you guys win. If you want to continue it, take it elsewhere. I thought crates are the new space nazis bearmonkeys. - Funkdrunk
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If you havent jumped in to IRC to get the IP for butter and played Sof2 MP with us, you are teh suck. Bad game designs are the new crates
-Greg |
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Dum, mad propz back-atcha for waiting until #66 to post that. Mind you, I had to Google to see who the Trojans fought, so my brain obviously isn't ultra-mega-supar-strength. |
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#65 I'm assuming that was sarcasm for the most part. Well that's ok -- so was my original statement. I just thought it would be funny if it turned out that Ad-Aware installed its own spyware, while simultaneously uninstalling competitors' spyware and lending users a false sense of security. You know? It would be ironic, and all that. |
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Ned Warren is the worst. He seems to have elevated himself in the matter but can't resist always trying to get in the final word. Do not. WoT?
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Post-It - All right... all right. It makes me weepy that I'm downloading a wait-between-rounds, reality-based tactical combat game (it goes against everything I believe in), but hearing all of you talk about playing on butter sounds fun. Course, I have doubts about my celeron 800 / radeon 7500 being able to even run the test... but wtf. -chris |
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[quote[Course, I have doubts about my celeron 800 / radeon 7500 being able to even run the test... but wtf. Chris I was thinking the same thing about this Duron 600 / Savage 4 here, but it was still great fun (well when warren wasn't snipping every one ass). |
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Just to let me voice my concerns with everyone - also so I can get properly labeled as an OPEN SORES FAGORT - I run teh loonix, no spyware for me! As far as I can tell from the closed sores looonix versions of kazaa and audiogalaxy, I have no spyware. -zakk
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LPMiller and I are the sniper mastahs. Eat it, Nova! heh. WoT?
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I'm just going to switch to the knife permanently. It's fun to kill with, and I can't do any worse with it. |
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