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Retrogaming - Preserving the past or eating companies' profits?
April 8th 2002, 04:09 CEST by DougS Two weeks ago MAME.DK got the hammer dropped on it by an "unidentified developer" ordering the Archivers to pull their ROMs from the site. MAME.DK not only pulled that company's ROMs but all ROMs on the site, leaving the once great site as now strictly a reference site for old games. While there were other sites on the web for getting ROMs (not to mention the newsgroups where ROM trading was constantly happening), MAME.DK stood head and shoulders above the rest. It was well researched, well organized, had the bandwidth to handle the flood of users that would descend upon it every time a new version of the MAME emulator was released, and clearly was a work of love by the site's owners. So of course if you're going to try and make some inroads on stomping out Retrogaming, it was the logical place to start. Retrogaming had been once a fringe scene made up of a loosely knit group of obsessed fans who wanted to bring hard to find old coin operated video games back to life on the PC. But now it's being legitimized by companies like Microsoft and others coming out with PC versions of certain classic games like Batllezone and others. Even companies like Lucas Arts came out with "retro packs" of their old graphic adventure games. But these newer (non-Lucas Arts) versions are not straight ports of the original code as is the case of "emulated" ROMs, where the code is copied off the chips of coin-op games and then emulated to work on the PC. You play Microsoft's Battlezone and any old timer can instantly see that it's not the same as playing the Coin-Op version, though it is close. From a legal point of view the ROM dumpers are breaking the law, despite their claims of "fair use". MAME.DK tried to make it look official by saying "You have to own a version of the coin op machine and by clicking Agree you admit that you won't sell the ROM and it is for educational purposes only..yadda, yadda, yadda..." Sound a lot like the B.S. you find on Warez boards doesn't it? From a copyright point of view, the ROM dumpers are (mostly) doing this without the original author's or companies' blessing. In some limited cases permission was given by the rights holder as long as nobody tried to make money off the ROMs. Further complicating matters is some of the oldest games (pre 1984) came from companies that no longer exist so it's not exactly known who owns the rights. But from a gamer's point of view a lot of these ROMs come from games you just can't find anymore and in the day and age of FPS and coin-op karate games, who thinks they'll make money off of re-releasing an old black and white 320x240 version of Boot Hill? Or Sea-Wolf? Even "newer" games like Major Havok or Cyberball would have a limited market for profits due to their low graphics. I myself am a child of the old coin-op era. I stopped playing coin-op around 1989 because the scene was stagnant with Mortal Kombat clones. Even in this day and age most of the coin op games I see have nicer graphics but have no originality whatsoever. Sounds a lot like the state of FPS these days, lots of graphic/performance improvements but no creativity or imagination taking the scene in new directions. So when I found out about MAME.DK I was estatic because I could play games that I haven't played or seen in over 17 years. Who cares about a game made in 1980 these days anyways when we've got EverCrap and AnarchyOnline and Ultima whatever? Apparently some bean counter does otherwise MAME.DK would still be up and running. Some argued that MAME.DKs downfall was all but sealed when emulation started occuring for games made after 1990. Worse, games that never got past the dev/tryout stage started appearing emulated. There was a huge fight over the fact that some guy had assembled from spare parts a version of Atari's unreleased Marble Madness 2 and wouldn't let anyone emulate it. Who's right? Who's wrong? Do you care? |
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Topic: Retrogaming - Preserving the past or eating companies' profits?
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To put it another way: I have absolutely no desire to become just another road statistic purely because some cunt thinks that the speed limit is for other people. you think you're funny ? I'll cut a hole in your head and piss through it...
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Optimal for travel time without sacrificing safety. Of course, it depends on the car. And this is Canada. Roads here are long and straight for the most part. With big shoulders. I follow speed limits for things like blind corners, windy roads, etc. But when the road is straight for as far as the eye can see, 100km/h is just too damn slow. |
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#29 by Nova Z But when the road is straight for as far as the eye can see, 100km/h is just too damn slow. 100 km/h is always too slow. Be glad you don't live in Sweden... 9) Me be gettin' something like this when I can afford it. Then it'll be really unsafe here in Gothenburg. 8P More pics of Chargers... -- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972! |
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Considering I can go buy Combat for the Gameboy Advance, it IS a bit fuzzy yet... |
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You can't put a copyright on a game. You can only put a copyright on the representation of a game. Sick and tired and not impressed with shoehorning art into a profitable industry.
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It all rings of something like the dog in the manger syndrome - these companies, for some reason best known to themselves, never seem to try to come up with a solution to the 'problem' (in their eyes) - they just shut down the emu sites as quick as they can. Nova's idea sounds perfect - so why on earth haven't any of these clapped-out coin-op companies (note beautiful guttural alliteration there - autographs later) thought of it themselves? Hit me - I'm wasting valuable time.
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Because they're waiting for someone else (like Nova) to think of it first. Then they'll think of it themselves. Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
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Oh, that's EASY to answer. Because the people who make all the decisions at the big companies are always at least 5 or 6 years behind the times. "Sell stuff on the internet? You are crazy! No one does that!" Maybe in 3 or 4 years, we'll see some of these ideas put to action. |
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This comment is brought to you by Smokey the Bear. Smokey the Bear would like to stress the fact that old SNES and NES games or even the handhelds aren't being sold anymore so that it's not fair for the companies to be charging money for them when they aren't selling 'em. Of course, NOW they're starting to sell them again now they know there's still a market, but that kinda just isn't fair. Most people who download roms will probably have owned the game on their amiga, atari, snes, nes or whatever but can't play it on their pc. they did buy the game and are entitled to play it, even on their PC. companies trying to make money TWICE out of these people are pure evil! thus spoke Smokey the Bear. "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
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My only interest in emulation is nostalgia, so most of the time I find myself emulating NES games that I already own. I'm just too damn lazy to go up to the attic, braving creaky flooring, asbestos and squirrels in order to retrieve my aging console. I've got my old favourites at the disposal of my mouse now; Super Mario 1, 2 & 3, Contra, Chip 'n' Dale and of course, the ultimate, the amazing, the stupendous DigDug 2. I still think that is one of the best games I've ever played, even disregarding nostalgic bias. Though if anyone has Wizards & Warriors, Kid Icarus or Micro Machines... :) -- ex Spatula Man --
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gunp01nt: Was the "Smokey the bear" alias used for any particular reason? 8) -- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972! |
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martin, no it was inspired by the ad I saw. Save the forest! "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
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gunp01nt: Ah. Smokey the bear would otherwise be appropriate since the topic touched upon speeding. 8) -- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972! |
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That would be the discussion rather than the topic. The topic is not all too concerned with speeding I would say. -- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972! |
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The real problem with companies for selling these ancient games is that setting up a payment system (as well as tech support) will offset the very small profit they could make. The rom scene is so huge because it is "free". #24 by Nova Z It's like speed limits on highways. I think 100km/h is too slow, 150km/h is closer to optimal. Yes, it's illegal. Is there any moral reason for that? No. Actually, yes. Diminishing road conditions, deer and moose, wet/slippery spots, yadda, yadda, yadda. If you think less than 150 km/h is too slow, then you're in too much of a god damn rush. And before you say its okay because you're a better driver than that, well that's what those other guys thought too... "Dream of me... and maybe, just maybe, this nightmare will end."
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Neo-Reaper: Diminishing road conditions, deer and moose, wet/slippery spots, yadda, yadda, yadda. Yep, like I said, those limits aren't put there to annoy people, there's a reason that they're set at what they are. They're not just for your safety either - there could be houses along that route as well. Which brings me neatly to... Nova-Z: Optimal for travel time without sacrificing safety. For who's safety ? Yours or other road users ? Pedestrians ? Cyclists ? If you're travelling at 150km/h and you crash headon into another motorist travelling at the same speed in the opposite direction, that's effectively a 300km/h crash; you don't stand a chance. You could argue that the same is true if you crash at 100km/h but reaction times are a factor; the slower you're travelling, the longer you have to react. Plus, of course, stopping distance increases exponentially as roadspeed increases. Jafd! Warren! Stop bickering I'll be forced to change your opinions manually!
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Gunpoint Of course, NOW they're starting to sell them again now they know there's still a market, but that kinda just isn't fair. Most people who download roms will probably have owned the game on their amiga, atari, snes, nes or whatever but can't play it on their pc. they did buy the game and are entitled to play it, even on their PC. companies trying to make money TWICE out of these people are pure evil! Let me understand ... A company stops selling a product but retains the rights to it. At a future date, they realize they could sell that product again because a viable market exists again, so they do. And this is evil? Excuse me while I beat my head against the desk. Neo-Reaper The real problem with companies for selling these ancient games is that setting up a payment system (as well as tech support) will offset the very small profit they could make. The rom scene is so huge because it is "free". Yeah, this has been debated here before. I don't think "nostalgia gaming" would be anywhere near as popular if people actually had to pay for the roms. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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BTW, Gunpoint, this line ... Most people who download roms will probably have owned the game on their amiga, atari, snes, nes or whatever but can't play it on their pc. ... is comedy gold! Thanks ... I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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I enjoy playing older games, but my shit is getting old! Trying to find a replacement NES is a pain in the ass these days. What am I supposed to do when my system dies, and I have my cartridges here lying around collecting dust? I dont mind buying this stuff if I can find it, but when I do its normally at Funcoland and their bullshit prices. I hate going online spending 10 bucks, 2 dollars on shipping on one game too. I actually applaud companies re-releasing their stuff, however most of them have been pretty half assed attempts. Squaresoft's FF re-releases for the PSX were horrible, loading time on a SNES cart game for gods sake. Sega's horrible sound with the Sega Dreampack(whatever the hell it was called for the DC, with the 10 genesis games). I think another thing about roms is the collecting, a gotta-collect them all mentality is involved as well. Most people only play a good 20 or so games they download out of the 1000's that are available. |
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Warren: ... is comedy gold! Thanks ... I don't think that what Gunp01nt says there is all that unlikely. Most of these games are crap in comparison to stuff available today, and, free or otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time downloading them if not for nostaliga... So the only ones I play are, as it happens, ones I used to own. -- ex Spatula Man --
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Ghost Trying to find a replacement NES is a pain in the ass these days. What am I supposed to do when my system dies, and I have my cartridges here lying around collecting dust? Not to state the obvious, buy eBay has NES systems all the time. I see one right now ... closing in a few hours, selling for $20.50. Martin I don't think that what Gunp01nt says there is all that unlikely. Most of these games are crap in comparison to stuff available today, and, free or otherwise, I wouldn't waste my time downloading them if not for nostaliga... So the only ones I play are, as it happens, ones I used to own. Sure, but how apt are you to download games you never owned, but heard were good? Or maybe one you always wanted to try, but never got around to? Or ones you wanted, but couldn't afford when they were new? I'm willing to bet people download a LOT more roms besides ones they used to own. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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#48 Hence pain in the ass if I have to look on Ebay... I already got scammed on one older system I bought... It was the newer model SNES, paid 19.99 for it, when it arrived it didnt work. The person said I should have asked in the first place. I assumed it would at least work, so I just gave bad feedback and swallowed the loss. |
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warren: BTW, Gunpoint, this line ... ... is comedy gold! Thanks ... Courtesy of Smokey the Bear! Oh and, how polite of you to respond with yet another load of sarcasm while you don't even know what you're talking about. Do you actually think most people downloading roms are warez kiddies that think MOH isn't interesting? my, us two certainly are a funny bunch! "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
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Ashiran: When you buy a game you buy a license to play rather then a copy of a game right? So when your CD get's into an unfortunate mishap aren't you entitled to another copy then? The way I understand it, you're entitled to make yourself a personal copy, but you're not allowed to distribute that copy. People sometimes misinterpret copyright laws to mean that you're not even allowed to make a copy of something, which isn't true -- the law is usually referring to distribution, which you don't have the rights to. So do you have the right to download a copy of a game you already own? I don't know, but I know that the people you're downloading it from don't have the right to distribute it, and that's where the law is pointing its finger. Nova Z: But no, they'd rather just fling around their legal weight, just because they can. That, sir, is bullshit, and I'll not stand for it. I'm not trying to be an apologist for the industry, but I seriously doubt that this is why companies come down on people distributing old games they don't have the rights to. It's easy to accuse companies of doing this "because they can", because we all know that being a company automatically makes you mean and bad and evil. The truth of it is* that legal issues when it comes to intellectual property and distribution rights, especially with old games in which rights may have changed hands, companies have come in and out of existence, and contracts have expired are minefields that are extremely difficult to negotiate, and it's just not as simple as slapping up a page where you can buy a copy for download. But the suggestion someone made of offering emulators just for your company's old games and then selling them cheaply is a good one IMO (but I also agree with Warren and others that the fact that ROMs are free is what makes them so appealing). *I am not a lawyer and don't actually have any legal experience here. I'm guessing. "It's not stupid -- it's advanced!"
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Oh, I see what Warren is saying and I think he's right, up to a point. I think my idea could work brilliantly for something like Palm or a WindowsCE device, once they become powerful enough - which they inevitably will. Think about it - travelling to work on the bus ? Start up your Palm and have a quick game of Street Fighter 1. Sitting at a street cabinet at three in the morning waiting for the NMC to ring you back ? Launch your arcade emulator and have a go of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I'm not expecting people to download the ROMS and play them night and day the way they would the latest greatest FPS, but they would be perfect for just dipping into and having a quick blast. Jafd! Warren! Stop bickering or I'll be forced to change your opinions manually!
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And one more note that I think people have touched on: Just because someone isn't making money on something doesn't give them the right to distribute someone else's intellectual property. If I make 100 copies of chris' novel and distribute it freely, that's okay, isn't it? I'm not making money on it. No, it's not okay. I'm distributing something I don't own the rights to, and when I do that I'm depriving chris of his right to control his own creative work. Money has nothing to do with it. If chris gave me permission to do so because he's not concerned about money, great, but that decision is HIS to make, not mine, and THAT is the crucial part of the law: the creator is the only one who can decide what happens to his creation. When that law is applied to the little guy, everyone applauds it, but when it's applied to big, evil corporations, people boo and hiss. The reality is that that law must apply to everyone equally in order for it to be effective because it's based on the very important and, IMO, morally upstanding belief that a creator has the right to decide what's done with their creation. And the nice thing is that this law applies on a very simple basis for everyone -- the moment chris wrote his novel it was copyrighted; there's no need for him to go out and secure those rights, which means that a company with money does not have an advantage over a person with money when it comes to creating something original. Of course, there's a problem if, in my example, someone were to plagiarize chris and it came down to his word against the offender's word (how's chris going to prove that he wrote the novel first without some kind of copyright time stamp on it?). There are very, very inexpensive ways of taking care of this, but the foundation of all of this is that it doesn't matter if you're a guy in your basement who just created a game or Mega-Corp(tm): your game is copyrighted to you the moment its created, and only you have the right to decide what happens to it. "It's not stupid -- it's advanced!"
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Neo-Reaper, deadlock: First, I'm not stupid. In any kind of diminished road conditions (rain, snow, night, high traffic, etc etc etc), I stick to speed limits. Often even drive slower. I drive safer than most people. I slow down cresting hills, I stick to speed limits on curves, I keep proper distance from other vehicles. Compare that to tailgaters who like to be 20 feet behind your car at 100km/h, people who speed at night, on moose filled highways, or drive 'just a bit' over the speed limit in the dead of winter when everything is ice, or those who keep to 100km/h even in fog where your visibility might allow you to see the lines on the road, if you are lucky. Or how about the old people that fall asleep while driving? There are way worse road habits than speeding. However, I think you fail to grasp what Canadian highways are like. We are talking 100km long straight lines, with the forest etc cleared for a good 100m on each side, and no interruptions. Houses? Yeah right. Nothing but forest. You might see another car every few minutes, if it's busy. Every half hour or so, a town. However, in the presence of any kind of other people, I tend to stick to the speed limits. Or at least, not much higher. |
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and THAT is the crucial part of the law: the creator is the only one who can decide what happens to his creation. I agree with you. However, about "creators"... I take issue with the small print at the end of movies. They say something like, "So-and-so production company is the author of this work for the purposes of copyright law." Well, that's trouble right there, because a big production "company" doesn't "author" shit; they just pay to have it done. It's directors and actors and writers and key grips and sound guys and all the other people that create a movie. Same with music, don't tell me the RIAA "creates" anything but whinging. Of course I understand, intellectually, that big corporations are made of people, just like you and me. I'm sure those of us who really do realize that are in the minority, however. But emotionally? I could give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut if, say, AOL-Time Warner lives or dies. Fuck 'em. Just because they have "legal rights" and all, I could honestly care less. At all. Yeah yeah, sure sure, publically held company, millions of people own stock in them, whatever. The loss of $5 by someone in buying a ROM is a tragedy, the collapse of millions of people's stock options is a statistic. It'd be one thing, if there was a clear correlation between a) the consumer paying money, and b) the creator of the work getting money. But there isn't. It's well known, music recording artists have been getting fucked by their labels, their accountants, et cetera, for years. I don't doubt that the same thing happens all over the place in any creative industry. Intellectually, sure, I know that the system does work. For the most part. Emotionally? Hrrrm. Well, tell me about how this makes you feel? I know that I, for one, wouldn't be so cavalier about downloading almost every mp3 I could ever want, then carefully choosing exactly which artists get my support/dollars/votes at the cash register, if I hadn't been exposed to all the horror stories about musicians getting kicked in the jimmy, over and over and over again. How about you? (I haven't downloaded many ROMs. I prefer music. Is there a difference here?) You must be ^this^ tall to ride the rollercoaster.
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Warren: Sure, but how apt are you to download games you never owned, but heard were good? Well - personally anyhow - these games are only interesting to me because I played them as a kid. I have no interest in downloading old games that I heard were good, because they neither hold memories for me nor have innate qualities on par with current games. Do you not think this would be true of the majority of people downloading ROMs? Nostalgia gaming wouldn't be nostalgic if you hadn't played the game in the first place. -- ex Spatula Man --
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jafd: I agree with you on the emotional part. In the music industry, I think there's a HUGE problem with artists getting shafted by the industry. But aside from incidents like that, the original creators of works that are distributed by large companies don't suddenly find themselves on the short end of the stick -- these people negotiate distribution rights with these companies, and they get something in return. If chris wants to make money on his novel, he signs a contract with a publisher that gives him X dollars or something else of value, and in return the publisher gets the right to distribute that work for money. Now, technically, a company DOES author something (I know that a person or persons do the work, but I do mean technically). John Doe accepts a job offer for Developer X; his contract -- like almost every contract for any job ever -- says that any work he does for that company becomes property of that company. Developer X then signs a contract with Publisher Y that says Developer X will get paid a certain amount of money in return for developing a game FOR Publisher Y (this isn't what always happens, I know, this is just an example). That game is, therefore, property of Publisher Y. And I know that doesn't change the emotional part of it; I guess I just wanted to nitpick. :) "It's not stupid -- it's advanced!"
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Well, my life is complete. I have become a planetcrap example. I now look forward to future threads where people will go "OH MY GOD, NOT THE 'CHRIS'S NOVEL' CONVERSATION AGAIN!!@#!" =) -chris |
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Thinking more about your post, jafd, I think that warezing or downloading illegally would definitely change if the correlation, as you said, was clearer between the consumer and the creator. This is where I think the Internet could be the saving grace of musicians, but chris and I had this discussion and he told me I was too optimistic. :) I have a favorite band, the alpha conspiracy, that distributes their (er, his -- it's one guy) music over the net. He offers mp3s of his stuff on the web site, and he distributes them over mp3.com as well. I can buy his CDs from a place on the net and know that he's getting a huge chunk of the money because of the information he's provided on his site. I would never, ever download an mp3 of his stuff if it meant it was hurting him, precisely because of what you mentioned: there is a very direct correlation to the money I spend on his CDs and what he gets. But I think this is achieved because of the accessibility of his music on the net and the fact that he bypasses "the industry". "It's not stupid -- it's advanced!"
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cdbaby.com great site. 50%+ of profits go direct to the artist. If you buy an alpha conspiracy album at Amazon, for example, andrew (the guy behind the project) gets about two bucks. If you buy it at cdbaby, he gets something around eight. and if you were to buy it from a major label, he'd get a couple of cents. :P -chris |
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Nova Z: There are way worse road habits than speeding. Only if you are a competent driver. Speeding laws exist (and should be enforced rigorously and across the board, imo) because not everyone is as good a driver, or indeed, generally intelligent as you are, and are not able to make a good decision on what is an appropriate speed for that road. The rules may be made, in some cases, to cater for the lowest common demoninator, and since it's not possible to make smart people exempt from certain laws, you'll have to grin and bear it. And even then, it's impossible for you to differentiate between arbitrarily set speed limits, and those which have been set for very specific conditions of that area. If you want the stupid and dangerous people to abide by the laws, then you have to as well. Out of interest: in Britain, at any rate, you can get away with driving up to 10mph above the speed limit in most areas. Is this true elsewhere? Also, how does the system work in Germany where there are no speed limits on the autobahns? -- ex Spatula Man --
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Speeding laws exist (and should be enforced rigorously and across the board, imo) because not everyone is as good a driver, or indeed, generally intelligent as you are, and are not able to make a good decision on what is an appropriate speed for that road. And perhaps more importantly, nearly everyone thinks they're a better driver than everyone else regardless of their actual level of competency. "It's not stupid -- it's advanced!"
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Caryn: Just because someone isn't making money on something doesn't give them the right to distribute someone else's intellectual property. If I make 100 copies of chris' novel and distribute it freely, that's okay, isn't it? I'm not making money on it. Yeah but everyone that gets a copy from you didn't buy the novel (no offense chris). The people that download the roms most likely already bought the game back then and now seek to relive the experience on their PC. it's unfair to those people to charge them twice for playing the same game. and no, people that didn't buy/play it in the past won't download a ROM game. Today's warezkiddies laugh at classic games and rather wait out a 700mb JK2 download. "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
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Yeah, but I haven't been in a car accident now, have I? ...yet. Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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Alpha Conspiracy=good. I saw him at the Masqurade in Atlanta a couple of months ago. Very soothing. Love his cover of The Girl from Iponema. Florida is the New Nazi FuckMonkeys.
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chris CDBaby is full of strange bands I've no knowledge of, and am unable to listen to as they only offer RealAudio samples, which is the devil. Still, nice idea, I'd be happy to support the concept otherwise. Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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Mp3.com has been doing the same thing for artist's that Cdbaby does.. for years. My brother www.eviladam.com sell's his cd's on mp3.com eviladam They give him 50% of the profits. Work's great. Why more band's don't go to Mp3.com I have no clue. |
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I am dying for the moment for a major Star to use Mp3.com to sell their album. The moment that happens is the moment that Monopolistic Record Companies get their teeth kicked in. All it takes is a Huge start to end his/her/their contract with a company and sign up with Mp3.com and solely use Mp3.com to sell their albums. They would make a fortune. |
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Baily Mp3.com offers just about every Music streaming format so you wouldn't have that problem trying out my brother's music. |
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And perhaps more importantly, nearly everyone thinks they're a better driver than everyone else regardless of their actual level of competency. I love those news articles on Dateline and other news magazine programs about testing peoples' driving abilities with distractions and such. They make people realize how inattentive drivers they really are. The people that download the roms most likely already bought the game back then and now seek to relive the experience on their PC. How can you be certain of this? I've done my share of emulating and I've downloaded tons of ROMs. Many of which I didn't even own. I played and loved Zelda64. But I didn't buy an N64 or the game. I downloaded UltraHLE and the ROM and played them. As well as a few other games. You give the emulation community far too much credit. I clearly state that I was doing something illegal. And just to show you how much alike the emu and warez communities are -- look at emu sites and compare them to the warez sites. Last time I looked, many of them looked nearly indistinguishable; with links to Top50 sites voting for them, other sites with other links to Top50s, deceitful links. Porn ads, endless popups and screen control. At least that was my experience. Sorry, but to go back to the piracy issue we spent our discussion energies on last ... it all boils down to rationalization. These excuses of no longer being sold, can't find them without paying too much for fleeting nostalgia at places like Funcoland -- they're all just rationalizations to justify that emulation isn't the same as piracy. I think post #0 said it best that MAME.DK (and a lot of emulation in general) took a major spank in the ass when they started copying games that were made after 1990, or were games that were relatively easy to obtain (until not too long ago, it wasn't hard at all to find an N64 and Zelda64 at retail). You're the new nazis.
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Permit me to congratulate all of Planetcrap users for the complete absence of "first psot" slapstick, as well as probably the most interesting, on-topic discussion since Thomas A. Edison sent the first e-mail in pleistocene, at the dawn of the Internet. ~zugly. - skazal Rzhevskij i razmazal govno po bil'jardnomu stolu. ...
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re: CDbaby. Great, great site. I try to pimp them as much as I possibly can. Even had em mentioned on CNet radio a few times. Still waiting for a check, however. As much as I love their concept, I think they really enjoy their jobs. If you've seen their reciepts, then you probably know what I'm talking about. Bailey: Don't let that stop you. Search for a few bands in the genres you're into, then go to the band's website, see if they have samples in other formats. I took a chance on em a while back and got a few CDs. Two Alpha Conspiracy (cypher and vs Low Technicians), CTRL, and Kusser. Its all good stuff. You're the new nazis.
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EvilAsh - MP3.com is still another big-business, VC-funded hype fest. CDBaby's run by six people in OR, and as Duality mentioned, it's very obvious from their receipts, web presence, and other materials that they are cool people who really love independent music, and aren't just trying to make a quick buck off of it. I'm sure the same can be said for many at MP3.com, but I'm all for supporting small business, so when I can, I buy from CDBaby. Oh, and Bailey, I agree about RealAudio samples being useless... but Duality's point is good: Many of the artists offer MP3s on their homepages. -chris |
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Duality Too late! I gave it all up in one fleeting moment of could've beens and should've dones! Besides, I'm still economically strapped at the moment, so no buying CDs regardless of how many pots of MacnCheese it buys these fine young artists. As I said though, I think it's a great idea, I'd much rather have a system like this pulling a david vs goliath on the recording industry than a P2P system. This way the artists win rather than the chubby-pawed, grubby consumers. Well, if the recording industry dies, I guess we all win, but you know what I mean. I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
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#52 by deadlock I think my idea could work brilliantly for something like Palm or a WindowsCE device, once they become powerful enough - which they inevitably will. Think about it - travelling to work on the bus ? Start up your Palm and have a quick game of Street Fighter 1. Sitting at a street cabinet at three in the morning waiting for the NMC to ring you back ? Launch your arcade emulator and have a go of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. I'm not expecting people to download the ROMS and play them night and day the way they would the latest greatest FPS, but they would be perfect for just dipping into and having a quick blast. Definitely -- in fact there are quite a few emulators out for the Pocket PC (I use MAMECE on my Casio e-200). If a company, like Activision for instance, offered the ability to download MAME compatible ROMs from their website for a couple bucks a pop, I'd definitely do it. I have TONS of Atari carts sitting in a box with a broken atari 7800 and 2600 beside them. I'd love to play those games while sitting in between classes or meetings, etc. I guess I should be happy that I have most of my carts in ROM format now <much thanks to MAME.DK>. Maybe someday your idea will come to light :) ... These aren't the craps you're looking for ...
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Nathan, 19: ...We're glad you have pleasant memories with said product, but go fuck yourself because the law is on our side." first off, to be fair, my "statement", such as it was, is hy-per-bo-le. If I really loved Street Fighter 1, and I was really into Street Fighter 1 at arcades, and I wanted to play Street Fighter 1 again, I'm basically out of luck. no, you're not. you're out of luck if you expect it to be easy or convenient, and you're out of luck if you expect this easy-ness and convenience to be not illegal. street fighter arcade machines are not extinct. they can be difficult to find, but they have not completely vanished from the face of the planet. in fact... yeah, it's II, not I, but the fact that there are two (three if you count the PCB one) available right now means with a little effort, it wouldn't be impossible to locate one. so, be clear. "I'm out of luck" means "I'm out of luck because I don't want to do it the way I'm supposed to." or "I'm out of luck because I can't do it the way that's most convenient for me." do you complain when you have to get off your ass and go to the grocery store to buy food, too? why not just go to your next-door neighbor's house and raid their fridge? that's much more convenient, and, as a bonus, it's free! 1) people who would like access to works that were meaningful to them are just out of luck this point has zero weight. if you would like to do something, do it the right way, or do not do it at all. your desires do not outweigh the law simply because they are your desires, and because "they don't hurt anyone!!!1!1!" (which really isn't your call to make), and because it's more convenient for you to steal something rather than do what you know is right. i grow very weary of this argument. "I WANT WHAT I WANT AND THERE'S JUST NO OTHER WAY TO DO IT!!11" wrong. there are plenty of ways. they're just not convenient for you. I have a really hard time shaking the feeling that downloading arcade ROMS from my childhood has about as much moral significance as going 85 mph in a 75 mph zone. It sure is illegal. you wanna play the moral relativism card, be my guest. i have a really hard time shaking the feeling that killing people i don't like has about as much moral significance as going 70 in a 65. but it sure is illegal. that must mean, since i personally don't think it's morally significant, that it's a-okay for me to do, right? Gunp01nt: Do you actually think most people downloading roms are warez kiddies that think MOH isn't interesting? y'know, usually you're full of shit, and this time isn't an exception. show me any demographic survey ever taken on people downloading roms. just one. what? there aren't any? gee. so his guess is as good as yours. well, better, because he's not an idiot. if i had to guess, i'd guess most people downloading roms are kiddies that collect 'em like they do warez stuff, but they may not necessarily be warez kiddies per se. let's face it--most mainstream adults have problems from time to time with fucking installshield.... MAME might as well be astrophysics. - if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller |
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mmmm mac n cheese. I miss mac n cheese. And I mean the real stuff. Like Kraft. None of this microwavable non-cheese cheese crap. Oh how toiling the world of low fat food is! *sob* You're the new nazis.
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Topic: Retrogaming - Preserving the past or eating companies' profits?
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