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Retrogaming - Preserving the past or eating companies' profits?
April 8th 2002, 04:09 CEST by DougS Two weeks ago MAME.DK got the hammer dropped on it by an "unidentified developer" ordering the Archivers to pull their ROMs from the site. MAME.DK not only pulled that company's ROMs but all ROMs on the site, leaving the once great site as now strictly a reference site for old games. While there were other sites on the web for getting ROMs (not to mention the newsgroups where ROM trading was constantly happening), MAME.DK stood head and shoulders above the rest. It was well researched, well organized, had the bandwidth to handle the flood of users that would descend upon it every time a new version of the MAME emulator was released, and clearly was a work of love by the site's owners. So of course if you're going to try and make some inroads on stomping out Retrogaming, it was the logical place to start. Retrogaming had been once a fringe scene made up of a loosely knit group of obsessed fans who wanted to bring hard to find old coin operated video games back to life on the PC. But now it's being legitimized by companies like Microsoft and others coming out with PC versions of certain classic games like Batllezone and others. Even companies like Lucas Arts came out with "retro packs" of their old graphic adventure games. But these newer (non-Lucas Arts) versions are not straight ports of the original code as is the case of "emulated" ROMs, where the code is copied off the chips of coin-op games and then emulated to work on the PC. You play Microsoft's Battlezone and any old timer can instantly see that it's not the same as playing the Coin-Op version, though it is close. From a legal point of view the ROM dumpers are breaking the law, despite their claims of "fair use". MAME.DK tried to make it look official by saying "You have to own a version of the coin op machine and by clicking Agree you admit that you won't sell the ROM and it is for educational purposes only..yadda, yadda, yadda..." Sound a lot like the B.S. you find on Warez boards doesn't it? From a copyright point of view, the ROM dumpers are (mostly) doing this without the original author's or companies' blessing. In some limited cases permission was given by the rights holder as long as nobody tried to make money off the ROMs. Further complicating matters is some of the oldest games (pre 1984) came from companies that no longer exist so it's not exactly known who owns the rights. But from a gamer's point of view a lot of these ROMs come from games you just can't find anymore and in the day and age of FPS and coin-op karate games, who thinks they'll make money off of re-releasing an old black and white 320x240 version of Boot Hill? Or Sea-Wolf? Even "newer" games like Major Havok or Cyberball would have a limited market for profits due to their low graphics. I myself am a child of the old coin-op era. I stopped playing coin-op around 1989 because the scene was stagnant with Mortal Kombat clones. Even in this day and age most of the coin op games I see have nicer graphics but have no originality whatsoever. Sounds a lot like the state of FPS these days, lots of graphic/performance improvements but no creativity or imagination taking the scene in new directions. So when I found out about MAME.DK I was estatic because I could play games that I haven't played or seen in over 17 years. Who cares about a game made in 1980 these days anyways when we've got EverCrap and AnarchyOnline and Ultima whatever? Apparently some bean counter does otherwise MAME.DK would still be up and running. Some argued that MAME.DKs downfall was all but sealed when emulation started occuring for games made after 1990. Worse, games that never got past the dev/tryout stage started appearing emulated. There was a huge fight over the fact that some guy had assembled from spare parts a version of Atari's unreleased Marble Madness 2 and wouldn't let anyone emulate it. Who's right? Who's wrong? Do you care? |
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Topic: Retrogaming - Preserving the past or eating companies' profits?
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And someone to call the use of HTML tags the new nazis. Acknowledge me! Acknowledge me! Or something...
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I agree with Nathan in post #125. It is a nice feeling knowing someone is playing a game you put your heart and soul into. When we made Red Odyssey, we were given three months to produce the title. This was after another developer sat on the project for seven months doing nothing with it. We were the clean up crew so to speak. We kicked ass and worked many 15-20 hr days to get the project done, from scratch. Meaning there was no plot, no models, no levels. We had a few drawings of ships, but that's about it. Thank goodness the engine was already built! (Even though it was a bitch to work with) What we were able to accomplish in such a short time was amazing. We had created two games in one year, between the time it took Romero and crew four years to finish Daikatana. Although, I think he probably sold more copies. When we finished the game, the publisher then told us no retailers would pick up the product. The only outlet we found was EB, and I think to date I've sold 400 copies. A simliar experience happened with Zaero. No retailers would pick it up because the two official mission packs for Quake II sold so poorly. What's so wild is I saw Red Odyssey on Warez sites before I even saw it in EB stores, and I'm the one who turned in the master disk for reproduction, so the leak was somewhere between publisher and reproduction/distribution. I have no idea. Doesn't really matter now. The word of mouth and reviews of Red Odyssey convinced Activision to put it in the Battlezone Gold package they released, but we still haven't sold enough copies to think about seeing a royalty check. Initially we contemplated whether we should put protection on the CD or not. We eventually decided to do it, but as you can see, it made little to no difference. At least people downloading Red Odyssey can at least experience a great game that I'm proud of, even though I don't make a dime off it. When I was poor.. what am I saying,, I'm still poor! Maybe I can have a bake sale. .....Yet Another 0l$en Twin Approved +12 Post!
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Ooh I want some of the lemon fudge squares. And those rice krispy treats suuuure smell delicious! You're the new nazis.
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Driving above the speed limit is evil. Seriously. It's a proven statistical fact that you are more likely to have a crash and more likely to be injured or injure someone, the faster you are driving. Anyone who puts their convenience over their own lives or anyone else's lives is evil. I hope you are joking, but in case you are not - that is just bullshit. Speed limits are an arbitrary impediment to driving in general. Speed is rarely the single determing factor in an accident/fatality. More often than not, other factors determine the accident, speed merely determines severity. And there is evidence suggesting that driving too slow causes more accidents than driving too fast. Most speed limits are set not with the interest of safety, but in the interest of revenue. http://ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html http://www.sense.bc.ca/research.htm http://www.motorists.com/ma/kill.html http://www.motorists.com/ma/speeding.html http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-346es.html Furthermore, NHTSA's definition of "speed related" include 1) improper lane changes, 2) following too closely, 3) unsafe passing, 4) inattention, 5) reckless driving, 6) high speed chase, 7) erratic speeds, 8) driving too fast for conditions (not necessarily above the limit), and 9) driving less than posted minimums. So when they tell you that (?)% of all accidents and fatalities are speed related, keep in mind what they really mean. Only 5% of fatalities are due to excess speed, irrespective of speed limits. (USDOT) I tried parsing FARS data to come with primary factors of accidents vs. speed, but they do not track it in that manner. Submitting a query would have taken two weeks and cost money. So if you want to look at it, here is the site: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/ In the areas I've lived in the US, that's pretty much the case. 10-15ish is about as far as it's reasonable to push it. I think once you're 20 miles above it starts becoming an actual offense rather than a misdemeaner, also. Which can mean some heavily penalties if you get caught. in most states, driving more than 20 miles over posted limits can constitute careless or reckless driving, but that is usually at the officers discretion. WHich is why you get a lot of "I was going 90 but he only wrote me up for 75." Barreling along at 90 on a wide open two-way in the sunshine is a little different than weaving in and out of traffic at 90. As to driving 10-15 over being safe speeding, that is not because the officer is just letting it go. The issue is whether or not you are attracting the officer's attention. |
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So Hulka is there any kind of action you can take when the leak happens during production of the disks? |
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Troll is likely to be eaten by a grue. |
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As long as the troll doesn't touch my flatheadia fudge. Its contraband, yah know. I can't just get this stuff anywhere! You're the new nazis.
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Bailey #161 Made me day. Ruined my keyboard, but it made my day. |
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VeeSPIKE: Interesting statistics. However... whilst speeding may not be the the single determing factor in an accident/fatality, it is a factor nonetheless. Also, the fact that the majority of accidents are not caused directly by it doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't more likely to have an accident whilst speeding. I don't know about you but I've been in accidents where speed was the single determining factor (not my fault, though, I hasten to point out...) so I can assure you, first-hand, that speeding can be dangerous. More often than not, other factors determine the accident, speed merely determines severity. This alone would be reason not to speed, imo. -- ex Spatula Man --
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While the Road Safety Council here state: "Exceeding the posted speed limit or driving too fast for conditions is the single largest factor contributing to road deaths in Ireland. Over 40% of fatal accidents are caused by excessive or inappropriate speed." and a study in the UK showed: "that a pedestrian hit by a car at 35mph is twice as likely to be killed than if he or she was hit at 30mph. " and interestingly: "A 50 km/h impact is equivalent to dropping a car from the top of a 2-storey building, a 100 km/h impact is equivalent to dropping 11 storeys and a 150 km/h crash to almost 30 storeys." www.nsc.ie has all the goods. Note, Senor VeeSPIKE, that I didn't use the word 'bullshit' and I sorta hope you're not 17-24 years old driving around thinking that 'speed limits are an arbitrary impediment to driving' ;) |
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Martin Davies: I'd be inclined to agree. Like I said earlier, a head on collision at 150km/h, whatever the initial cause of the accident, is worse than a head-on collision at 100km/h. At 100 km/h there is a chance (however remote) that the occupants of the vehicles will survive, at 150km/h (roughly 95mph) you haven't a prayer. Remember, two cars travelling in opposite directions colliding at 150km/h is equivalent to one car hitting a stationary object at 300km/h. Jafd! Warren! Stop bickering or I'll be forced to change your opinions manually!
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veespike: so...eliminating those 5% of accidents aren't worth it because it's just 5%? Common. Sense. Driving faster = more dangerous. "It goes without saying that technical proficiency should be the first acquistion of a student who would be a fine pianist." - Sergei Rachmaninov
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If you genuinely believe that 'speed limits are an arbitrary impediment to driving' then you have to ask yourself one question and one question only: where the fuck am I going that I need to get there in such a hurry ? Jafd! Warren! Stop bickering or I'll be forced to change your opinions manually!
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Stopping distance increases on a curve as well, if I'm recalling right. |
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Not if you slam into somthing solid enough. -- Martin
"Killer of giants, threatens us all. Mountains of madness, standing so tall." - Ozzy |
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Yeah, dragging a pedestrian under one wheel can fuck up a car's top speed and handling. |
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As a survivor of a head-on hit by a car as a pedestrian, I can definitely say if the bitch had been driving faster I wouldn't be here today to torment Warren. My head slammed face first into her car's windshield ,I was sent 50 feet in the air and 100 feet back. I have bones in my forehead that were crushed to powder. I have pieces of synthetic metal put inplace to replace those bones. I fractured my jaw. I lost teeth and had them replaced. Oh yes I really appreciate the idea that Speeding doesn't fucking matter. I hope the idiot who said this hits a nice ice patch one day. And Find's himself picking glass out of his forehead. Then maybe he might realize there is no fucking need for speeding UNLESS IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION. But then again he is probably 17 just got his license and has no fucking clue. If we are that lucky. |
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Yeah but Evil, if she had been truly speeding, think of the savings in medical and pain/suffering. But, the whole "I have bones in my forehead that were crushed to powder" really gave me the heebee jeebees. I mean...ouch. Will warez for food.
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Amen Evil. --jmc
ICQ-121684 AIM-jmcdavel U=FAG0T |
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EvilAss My head slammed face first into her car's windshield ,I was sent 50 feet in the air and 100 feet back. I have bones in my forehead that were crushed to powder. I have pieces of synthetic metal put inplace to replace those bones. This explains -so- much. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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Ouch. "If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -- Lewis Carroll
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I tried parsing FARS data to come with primary factors of accidents vs. speed, but they do not track it in that manner. Submitting a query would have taken two weeks and cost money. So if you want to look at it, here is the site: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/ They do have a report avalible for 2000 on speeding. According to the report (here) the majority of fatal crashes involving speeding also involved inexperianced drivers, and/or alcohol, and/or wet conditions. Lets see here out of 41,821 fatal crashes 12,350 involved speeding (where as out of 3,189,000 crashes resulting in injury only 703,000 involved speeding). A wopping 40% of those involved people with a BAC over .10 (about 31% with a BAC of .01-.09, and about 13% with 0 BAC). Also the most of them where males age 15-24 (it falls off after that but with out data on number of tickets by the same age groups used I can't tell if it's from more experiance or simply less speeding). O and here's another interesting stat for you speed limits are arbitrary fokes. 85% of all fatal speeding related crashes happened on non-interstate roads. Makes since considering the safty factors for an interstate are much different then say a two lane highway (ie as long as all of the cars are moveing at roughly the same speed the interstate should be safe no matter what the speed is). |
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I run Nintendo roms on my Casio BE-300, but hell I also have about 1,000 etexts on the damn thing too and a few mp3s! Its all graymarket software as far as i'm concerned. I tend to see Roms as residing in that rather comfortable area of shaded gray. I mean if roms are illegal, then wouldn't etexts be as well? Imagine that no more Hagakure small enough to easily fit on a CF card no more Kautalya, Hesse or Spinoza! "It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
-Ornette Coleman |
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Trust me Warren I was different person about 9 years ago. That's how long ago it occured. IF you think I Am bitter about that day some part of me is I have to admit. Jeesus here goes my life story or rather the life changing part of it. 9 years ago.. In fact the anniversary is approaching in a few days.. 9 years ago I was 19 years old and loving life. I Was in college and I was majoring communications while focusing in Public Relations (hehe sigh.) A month before to that day my dad had fractured his ankle while crossing the street to get into his van (he slipped on a patch of ice obscured by snow and his ankle caught underneath his briefcase and rest is history). He was a teacher at the time. He is retired now. He was stuck at home at that saturday morning. A family friend a fellow teacher and had taken me to a dentist appointment. I had just gotten the great news that in exactly a month my braces would be removed. I was so pumped. I was home for the weekend not only for that appointment but because I was scheduled to be at an advertising award show in Secaucus,NJ. I was going to be in a suit and I Was going to be one of those Handsome escorts who would escort the female winners after they received an award. This was my big brake. My favorite professor had gotten me this sweet gig. I Would be able to network with folks in the field! I was stoked. So I get home from the appointment the award show would be around 3pm. So I had some time to kill. It was about 10am. and MY mom asks my younger brother to hit the local store and buy some milk and the newspapers. He of course being the lazy ass that he was.. Said no. I piped up That I would do it. I had used to get the papers every day since I Was 9 year sold till I Went to college. So I went across the street on Kennedy blv. To a local store. Bought the papers and with some cash I had with me I bought 2 copies of the special version of the Death of superman. That issue had just come out. I got 2. one for myself and for my bro. I come back outside and in front of the crosswalk was a huge delivery truck. I still could see the streetlight above it. The signal was green for me. So I went around the front of it And proceeded to slowly cross the street. After that moment I only remember the sound of a horn. I also remember attempting to jump back toward the curb. I nearly made it. But my big feet clipped the front grill of the car and I flapjacked straight face first into the windshield. Suffice it to say. I got my braces out a bit early. That day in fact. MY 8 front teeth were ripped out. I had the fractured jaw. I had the smashed up forehead. I had 12 hours of MAxifacial Plastic surgery. I have no memories of immediately after the car rushing at my face. I have no memories of that day or of the next day till 3pm. When I remember looking at my mom's face and my brothers. MY brother still gets a queesy look in his eyes when my mom reminds him that it should have been him crossing that street that morning. What if's are a bitch. Anyway I had permanent dentures put in. lost a year of college.. I lost my desire for communications and instead I got into computers. Also at the same time my tastest in music expanded. I got the and justice for album like 6 months later.. Not exactly the best music to heal one's soul. But let's just say I became a darker person. It would take about 3 years and a whole lot of soul-searching before I regained my cheery attitude. One of the funnier memories I remmeber is my one of my suite-mates in college informing me that he realized that my face had healed to the point that I looked 99% like I had before the accident. He had noticed the entire semester as my face changed over a period of 3 months. He just didn't have the heart to tell me at first. I did feel better when he did. As far as explaining how I act online. Like I explained in another post I don't generally give a shit about my grammer when talking online. I am very lazy. As someone who had desires at one time to major in communications my speaking and writing skills are generally better then I show. I don't really want to care so much about everything I speak about online. But when the topic moves me the results definitely show. As far as speeding I have no sympathy for anyone who speeds on regular streets , I could almost understand speeding to keep with traffic on a highway like I-75 in florida or I-95. But on regular streets you are a complete asshole if you speed. And you deserve the book to be thrown at you. OR shoved far up your ass. Warren just so you understand. I have no problems with you. I don't hate you. I Don't hate anyone online. I do enjoy torturing you. I can just imagine the veins pulsating after you read my latest stupidity. But it's all in good fun with me. If I was a truly nasty asshole. I could be alot worse. Just so you know, I did love WOT. Great game. |
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What? I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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I'm Peter Graves, and thank you for watching this special Edition of Biography. Will warez for food.
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My scroll wheel just turned to powder. You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
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EvilAsh with me I bought 2 copies of the special version of the Death of superman. Speculator bastard. Funk. |
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Hmmm. I don't think you're bothering Warren nearly as much as you think you are. In fact, I'd be willing to wager that you're bothering him at all. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.
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Speculator lol. those were the only versions of that comic in that friggin store. And Fuck it was the DEATH OF SUPERMAN! LOL. Oh yeah LP. LOL My life is not that friggin accident lol. just a small blaring portion of it. Warren I didn't expect a response so its okay. Ergo I think you meant to say.. you are willing to wager That I am not bothering him at all. But nice try. :) |
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#197 jafd: My scroll wheel just turned to powder. Like you have any room to talk. Shall I find "The post that broke OpenCrap"? Oh sure, why not? |
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Tis okay Whisp Ignored it. :) |
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It was on topic. You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
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It was a book. S'okay though, it's all in good fun. |
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I think Mr.Bloo's comment immediately following the (thousand of) words by jafd sums it up nicely! Greg
-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having! |
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* What? * My scroll wheel just turned to powder. * Speculator bastard. Three great examples of why I love PlanetCrap! EvilAsh: In February 2000, I slipped on ice in my driveway walking to my car and broke my leg. So you're dad isn't the only one this has happened to. I must also tell you that I lied in the driveway in shock for a few minutes. My dog woke my wife up. She opened the garage door, and was standing in the garage telling me to crawl up to her. It was snowing hard. I was lying in snow, with a broken leg, saying every curse word in the book in reaction to the pain, and she wants me to crawl up to her because she doesn't have shoes on. I yelled to her "I THINK I BROKE MY LEG!!".. Her reaction was, "Oh, you did not, you big pussy, you just sprained your ankle. Get up!".. I was finally able to crawl on my elbows and pulls my fat ass into the garage, where she helped me pull my shoe and sock off to see a giant bluing bulge above my ankle. She looks at me and says "Oh honey, I think you broke it".. I'm was like NO SHIT! Get me to a doctor! .....If You See Her Glow, It's Too Late!
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Oh feck! YOUR DAD.. Not You're! Sometimes when I'm typing, I let my retarded side take over. .....If You See Her Glow, It's Too Late!
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I lied in the driveway? I lay in the driveway. I need more coffee. .....If You See Her Glow, It's Too Late!
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Aw come one Warren, that was a bit harsh. They guy's just poured his heart out to you! He admitted to having had an insta-frontal-lobotomy! He even praised WoT! Just saying "What?" was a cheap shot. |
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The guy's just poured his heart out to you! Who? You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
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Where? Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
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Monty Oh, please. That troll has been riding me for weeks. You think I give a shit about anything he has to say? WoT?
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I have a thing about rehabilitating trolls, like I tried to do with Joker. Whenever they actually talk like normal human beings, I try not to abuse them, because maybe they'll do it more often. Oh well, back to the flamage. |
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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
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No, but you stick his head under and hope for the best. WoT?
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Is this Evilash or the horse you're talking about? |
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*rimshot* You just don't like being told what to do. Admit it.
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Just to bring the topic back toward its initial direction... I must confess to having d/l'ed the occasional Spectrum game - I mean no-one is ever going to release these things again? Let alone charge for them? Right? |
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you can take a horse to water, but a pencil has to be lead Ds Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
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You should be hunted for that. Will warez for food.
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