|
| T O P I C | |
|
Retrogaming - Preserving the past or eating companies' profits?
April 8th 2002, 04:09 CEST by DougS Two weeks ago MAME.DK got the hammer dropped on it by an "unidentified developer" ordering the Archivers to pull their ROMs from the site. MAME.DK not only pulled that company's ROMs but all ROMs on the site, leaving the once great site as now strictly a reference site for old games. While there were other sites on the web for getting ROMs (not to mention the newsgroups where ROM trading was constantly happening), MAME.DK stood head and shoulders above the rest. It was well researched, well organized, had the bandwidth to handle the flood of users that would descend upon it every time a new version of the MAME emulator was released, and clearly was a work of love by the site's owners. So of course if you're going to try and make some inroads on stomping out Retrogaming, it was the logical place to start. Retrogaming had been once a fringe scene made up of a loosely knit group of obsessed fans who wanted to bring hard to find old coin operated video games back to life on the PC. But now it's being legitimized by companies like Microsoft and others coming out with PC versions of certain classic games like Batllezone and others. Even companies like Lucas Arts came out with "retro packs" of their old graphic adventure games. But these newer (non-Lucas Arts) versions are not straight ports of the original code as is the case of "emulated" ROMs, where the code is copied off the chips of coin-op games and then emulated to work on the PC. You play Microsoft's Battlezone and any old timer can instantly see that it's not the same as playing the Coin-Op version, though it is close. From a legal point of view the ROM dumpers are breaking the law, despite their claims of "fair use". MAME.DK tried to make it look official by saying "You have to own a version of the coin op machine and by clicking Agree you admit that you won't sell the ROM and it is for educational purposes only..yadda, yadda, yadda..." Sound a lot like the B.S. you find on Warez boards doesn't it? From a copyright point of view, the ROM dumpers are (mostly) doing this without the original author's or companies' blessing. In some limited cases permission was given by the rights holder as long as nobody tried to make money off the ROMs. Further complicating matters is some of the oldest games (pre 1984) came from companies that no longer exist so it's not exactly known who owns the rights. But from a gamer's point of view a lot of these ROMs come from games you just can't find anymore and in the day and age of FPS and coin-op karate games, who thinks they'll make money off of re-releasing an old black and white 320x240 version of Boot Hill? Or Sea-Wolf? Even "newer" games like Major Havok or Cyberball would have a limited market for profits due to their low graphics. I myself am a child of the old coin-op era. I stopped playing coin-op around 1989 because the scene was stagnant with Mortal Kombat clones. Even in this day and age most of the coin op games I see have nicer graphics but have no originality whatsoever. Sounds a lot like the state of FPS these days, lots of graphic/performance improvements but no creativity or imagination taking the scene in new directions. So when I found out about MAME.DK I was estatic because I could play games that I haven't played or seen in over 17 years. Who cares about a game made in 1980 these days anyways when we've got EverCrap and AnarchyOnline and Ultima whatever? Apparently some bean counter does otherwise MAME.DK would still be up and running. Some argued that MAME.DKs downfall was all but sealed when emulation started occuring for games made after 1990. Worse, games that never got past the dev/tryout stage started appearing emulated. There was a huge fight over the fact that some guy had assembled from spare parts a version of Atari's unreleased Marble Madness 2 and wouldn't let anyone emulate it. Who's right? Who's wrong? Do you care? |
| C O M M E N T S |
|
Home »
Topic: Retrogaming - Preserving the past or eating companies' profits?
|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»| |
|
Thats fine then guys. It's theft and I have stolen many ROMS of games that I legally own. Sue me. |
|
Evi|ivE, your punishment will be to forever visit an alternate version of PlanetCrap where nothing but warez is discussed. Oh, wait... |
|
lol |
|
Jafd: Let's all starve him out now, hmmm? I'm all for that. Inane wastes of bandwidth like #138 prove that the well's done gone dry. No way! Having a really clueless person around makes us all look better. Besides, whilst he's here at least he's kept off the streets. Or roads. Whichever is scarier. -- ex Spatula Man --
|
|
Warren: my, us two certainly are a funny bunch! No, I'm funny. You're just stupid. EvilAsh I have no clue. Perfect. I'm glad I had swallowed my cornflakes when I read that or I'd have a lot of cleaning to do. -- ex Spatula Man --
|
|
Or maybe "alot of cleaning". -- ex Spatula Man --
|
|
Evilash: Because his insults keep getting worse and worse. I really can't be arsed to search through for every instance of it, so I'll paraphrase: "Warren can't even get past Point X in JK2" (replace Point X with any point in the game, and repeat ad infinitum) Eradicators! - www.eradicators.co.uk
|
|
#64 by Bailey Yeah, but I haven't been in a car accident now, have I? ...yet. I have but that's not stopping me... For the rest of the discussion: I've really tried to read through all the posts and wrap my head around this, even though I really don't care all that much, but I am still unsure about one thing. From what I can gather some of you are saying that even though I own the cartridge I am not allowed to DL the ROM as it's not the format I bought, others are saying that I can DL the ROM as I already own the game. I don't really know, or care, who's right but what if I DL the ROM and then transfer it to a cartridge? Is that within my legal rights? -- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972! |
|
#125 Nathan McKenzie, I felt more or less the same way when we were publishing pen and paper role-playing games. We had the rules printed in a magazine and quite happily gave scenarios out to fanzines that requested something to print. I met one guy at UK Gencon that was still running games from a photocopied version of the magazine edition. As long as they were playing them, I didn't mind where they got them from. We never made a lot of money from the games which probably coloured my thinking to some extent although you'd figure that I would care less about it if the games were actually pulling in the big money. I regret not putting up PDFs of the games when we eventually stopped printing them. I really should get around to it but I've been out of the scene so long, I wouldn't even know where to put the notices so that people could download them. I'd like them to be available in a format I could quality-control rather than bad photocopies (the books were always small enough to photocopy cost effectively ;) |
|
OOh the Middle Finger of Justice.. Is that like the Bitch Smack Of Righteousness that I laid on you? ZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Will warez for food.
|
|
Hey Neale you think Warren finally got the lightsabre yet? Or has he been hiding his inept play at JK2.. by responding to me. Its a conspiracy I Tell ya!! I know! I Know! He got ahold of Dungeon Siege and gave up on Jk2 because it was too hard! And Jafd, How can you throw stones when you go through life with a bag on your head? You are so desperate to hide your gender ,yet you continually talk like some slack-jawed kid. Who are you fooling? If a poll was done of planetcrap members on what your gender is.. I pretty much believe the majority would say guy. I know many say they don't care.. But that's a different question. |
|
Poor Lp,too pooped to pop. Damn kid you gotta work on your stamina. |
|
Not going to feed the troll ... not going to feed the troll ... You're the new nazis.
|
|
Troll needs food badly. -- ex Spatula Man --
|
|
Ash Can I ask a question? Are aerospace engineers supposed to be fighter pilots as well? Find a new argument, k? This one is old, boring and stupid. Funk. |
|
[quote[Hey Neale you think Warren finally got the lightsabre yet? Or has he been hiding his inept play at JK2.. by responding to me. Its a conspiracy I Tell ya!! I know! I Know! He got ahold of Dungeon Siege and gave up on Jk2 because it was too hard! And Jafd, How can you throw stones when you go through life with a bag on your head? You are so desperate to hide your gender ,yet you continually talk like some slack-jawed kid. Who are you fooling? If a poll was done of planetcrap members on what your gender is.. I pretty much believe the majority would say guy. I know many say they don't care.. But that's a different question. Good god but you are teh stupid. Who cares how well Warren plays JK2? Really? Fuck. Do you want to know how he does at Tetris too? Who cares if jafd has a dick or not? Really? Besides I mean, jafd, and any significant other that might be interested? Pee sitting down or standing up, I don't give a flying fuck as long as it isn't on my shoes. If you are going to troll, put some effort into it boy. Will warez for food.
|
|
stupid quote tags. Will warez for food.
|
|
Martin Davies: Troll needs food badly. We can only hope the next thing the announcer says is Troll (slight pause) is about to die. Greg
-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having! |
|
Bailey... shot the food. I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
|
|
Or has he been hiding his inept play at JK2.. not trying to defend warren in any way but do you really think you're any less of a moron if you can finish JK2? your l33t g4m1ng sk1llz don't work on us! (I mean, I finished MOH within 9 hours on medium level, RtCW in 7 hours on medium, Max payne in 6 on easy, and look at my PC karma) "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
|
|
"Don't shoot the food! oh ... nevermind." I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
|
|
you're getting better though, Gun. Will warez for food.
|
|
#134 by EvilAsh Shit really.. Tell me when they be in Florida..So It can mean something to me!!! GRR They were at the House of Blues in Orlando about two, maybe three, weeks ago :) Wonder boy...What is the secret of your powers... ... These aren't the craps you're looking for ...
|
|
LPMiller: stupid quote tags. Your weakened crap-fu has left you wide open for attack... hey lpmillar booger baby... yOu cant even use teh quote tags adn yuo tTRY adn critssissize otherS! thats soooo sad! yuor so gay! FAG! -- ex Spatula Man --
|
|
hey lpmillar booger baby... yOu cant even use teh quote tags adn yuo tTRY adn critssissize otherS! thats soooo sad! yuor so gay! FAG! add 'fuckmonkey' for effect and to make leslie happy. "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
|
|
boogerfuck monkeybaby? <b>italian</b> boogerfuck monkeybaby? You're the new nazis.
|
|
ooh that was below the belt! "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
|
|
Oh crap-fu has failed me. I need EvilAsh ridiculing for the full experience. You're the new nazis.
|
|
And someone to call the use of HTML tags the new nazis. Acknowledge me! Acknowledge me! Or something...
|
|
I agree with Nathan in post #125. It is a nice feeling knowing someone is playing a game you put your heart and soul into. When we made Red Odyssey, we were given three months to produce the title. This was after another developer sat on the project for seven months doing nothing with it. We were the clean up crew so to speak. We kicked ass and worked many 15-20 hr days to get the project done, from scratch. Meaning there was no plot, no models, no levels. We had a few drawings of ships, but that's about it. Thank goodness the engine was already built! (Even though it was a bitch to work with) What we were able to accomplish in such a short time was amazing. We had created two games in one year, between the time it took Romero and crew four years to finish Daikatana. Although, I think he probably sold more copies. When we finished the game, the publisher then told us no retailers would pick up the product. The only outlet we found was EB, and I think to date I've sold 400 copies. A simliar experience happened with Zaero. No retailers would pick it up because the two official mission packs for Quake II sold so poorly. What's so wild is I saw Red Odyssey on Warez sites before I even saw it in EB stores, and I'm the one who turned in the master disk for reproduction, so the leak was somewhere between publisher and reproduction/distribution. I have no idea. Doesn't really matter now. The word of mouth and reviews of Red Odyssey convinced Activision to put it in the Battlezone Gold package they released, but we still haven't sold enough copies to think about seeing a royalty check. Initially we contemplated whether we should put protection on the CD or not. We eventually decided to do it, but as you can see, it made little to no difference. At least people downloading Red Odyssey can at least experience a great game that I'm proud of, even though I don't make a dime off it. When I was poor.. what am I saying,, I'm still poor! Maybe I can have a bake sale. .....Yet Another 0l$en Twin Approved +12 Post!
|
|
Ooh I want some of the lemon fudge squares. And those rice krispy treats suuuure smell delicious! You're the new nazis.
|
|
Driving above the speed limit is evil. Seriously. It's a proven statistical fact that you are more likely to have a crash and more likely to be injured or injure someone, the faster you are driving. Anyone who puts their convenience over their own lives or anyone else's lives is evil. I hope you are joking, but in case you are not - that is just bullshit. Speed limits are an arbitrary impediment to driving in general. Speed is rarely the single determing factor in an accident/fatality. More often than not, other factors determine the accident, speed merely determines severity. And there is evidence suggesting that driving too slow causes more accidents than driving too fast. Most speed limits are set not with the interest of safety, but in the interest of revenue. http://ibiblio.org/rdu/sl-irrel.html http://www.sense.bc.ca/research.htm http://www.motorists.com/ma/kill.html http://www.motorists.com/ma/speeding.html http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-346es.html Furthermore, NHTSA's definition of "speed related" include 1) improper lane changes, 2) following too closely, 3) unsafe passing, 4) inattention, 5) reckless driving, 6) high speed chase, 7) erratic speeds, 8) driving too fast for conditions (not necessarily above the limit), and 9) driving less than posted minimums. So when they tell you that (?)% of all accidents and fatalities are speed related, keep in mind what they really mean. Only 5% of fatalities are due to excess speed, irrespective of speed limits. (USDOT) I tried parsing FARS data to come with primary factors of accidents vs. speed, but they do not track it in that manner. Submitting a query would have taken two weeks and cost money. So if you want to look at it, here is the site: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/ In the areas I've lived in the US, that's pretty much the case. 10-15ish is about as far as it's reasonable to push it. I think once you're 20 miles above it starts becoming an actual offense rather than a misdemeaner, also. Which can mean some heavily penalties if you get caught. in most states, driving more than 20 miles over posted limits can constitute careless or reckless driving, but that is usually at the officers discretion. WHich is why you get a lot of "I was going 90 but he only wrote me up for 75." Barreling along at 90 on a wide open two-way in the sunshine is a little different than weaving in and out of traffic at 90. As to driving 10-15 over being safe speeding, that is not because the officer is just letting it go. The issue is whether or not you are attracting the officer's attention. |
|
So Hulka is there any kind of action you can take when the leak happens during production of the disks? |
|
Troll is likely to be eaten by a grue. |
|
As long as the troll doesn't touch my flatheadia fudge. Its contraband, yah know. I can't just get this stuff anywhere! You're the new nazis.
|
|
Bailey #161 Made me day. Ruined my keyboard, but it made my day. |
|
VeeSPIKE: Interesting statistics. However... whilst speeding may not be the the single determing factor in an accident/fatality, it is a factor nonetheless. Also, the fact that the majority of accidents are not caused directly by it doesn't necessarily mean that you aren't more likely to have an accident whilst speeding. I don't know about you but I've been in accidents where speed was the single determining factor (not my fault, though, I hasten to point out...) so I can assure you, first-hand, that speeding can be dangerous. More often than not, other factors determine the accident, speed merely determines severity. This alone would be reason not to speed, imo. -- ex Spatula Man --
|
|
While the Road Safety Council here state: "Exceeding the posted speed limit or driving too fast for conditions is the single largest factor contributing to road deaths in Ireland. Over 40% of fatal accidents are caused by excessive or inappropriate speed." and a study in the UK showed: "that a pedestrian hit by a car at 35mph is twice as likely to be killed than if he or she was hit at 30mph. " and interestingly: "A 50 km/h impact is equivalent to dropping a car from the top of a 2-storey building, a 100 km/h impact is equivalent to dropping 11 storeys and a 150 km/h crash to almost 30 storeys." www.nsc.ie has all the goods. Note, Senor VeeSPIKE, that I didn't use the word 'bullshit' and I sorta hope you're not 17-24 years old driving around thinking that 'speed limits are an arbitrary impediment to driving' ;) |
|
Martin Davies: I'd be inclined to agree. Like I said earlier, a head on collision at 150km/h, whatever the initial cause of the accident, is worse than a head-on collision at 100km/h. At 100 km/h there is a chance (however remote) that the occupants of the vehicles will survive, at 150km/h (roughly 95mph) you haven't a prayer. Remember, two cars travelling in opposite directions colliding at 150km/h is equivalent to one car hitting a stationary object at 300km/h. Jafd! Warren! Stop bickering or I'll be forced to change your opinions manually!
|
|
veespike: so...eliminating those 5% of accidents aren't worth it because it's just 5%? Common. Sense. Driving faster = more dangerous. "It goes without saying that technical proficiency should be the first acquistion of a student who would be a fine pianist." - Sergei Rachmaninov
|
|
If you genuinely believe that 'speed limits are an arbitrary impediment to driving' then you have to ask yourself one question and one question only: where the fuck am I going that I need to get there in such a hurry ? Jafd! Warren! Stop bickering or I'll be forced to change your opinions manually!
|
|
Stopping distance increases on a curve as well, if I'm recalling right. |
|
Not if you slam into somthing solid enough. -- Martin
"Killer of giants, threatens us all. Mountains of madness, standing so tall." - Ozzy |
|
Yeah, dragging a pedestrian under one wheel can fuck up a car's top speed and handling. |
|
As a survivor of a head-on hit by a car as a pedestrian, I can definitely say if the bitch had been driving faster I wouldn't be here today to torment Warren. My head slammed face first into her car's windshield ,I was sent 50 feet in the air and 100 feet back. I have bones in my forehead that were crushed to powder. I have pieces of synthetic metal put inplace to replace those bones. I fractured my jaw. I lost teeth and had them replaced. Oh yes I really appreciate the idea that Speeding doesn't fucking matter. I hope the idiot who said this hits a nice ice patch one day. And Find's himself picking glass out of his forehead. Then maybe he might realize there is no fucking need for speeding UNLESS IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION. But then again he is probably 17 just got his license and has no fucking clue. If we are that lucky. |
|
Yeah but Evil, if she had been truly speeding, think of the savings in medical and pain/suffering. But, the whole "I have bones in my forehead that were crushed to powder" really gave me the heebee jeebees. I mean...ouch. Will warez for food.
|
|
Amen Evil. --jmc
ICQ-121684 AIM-jmcdavel U=FAG0T |
|
EvilAss My head slammed face first into her car's windshield ,I was sent 50 feet in the air and 100 feet back. I have bones in my forehead that were crushed to powder. I have pieces of synthetic metal put inplace to replace those bones. This explains -so- much. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
|
|
Ouch. "If it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic." -- Lewis Carroll
|
|
I tried parsing FARS data to come with primary factors of accidents vs. speed, but they do not track it in that manner. Submitting a query would have taken two weeks and cost money. So if you want to look at it, here is the site: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/ They do have a report avalible for 2000 on speeding. According to the report (here) the majority of fatal crashes involving speeding also involved inexperianced drivers, and/or alcohol, and/or wet conditions. Lets see here out of 41,821 fatal crashes 12,350 involved speeding (where as out of 3,189,000 crashes resulting in injury only 703,000 involved speeding). A wopping 40% of those involved people with a BAC over .10 (about 31% with a BAC of .01-.09, and about 13% with 0 BAC). Also the most of them where males age 15-24 (it falls off after that but with out data on number of tickets by the same age groups used I can't tell if it's from more experiance or simply less speeding). O and here's another interesting stat for you speed limits are arbitrary fokes. 85% of all fatal speeding related crashes happened on non-interstate roads. Makes since considering the safty factors for an interstate are much different then say a two lane highway (ie as long as all of the cars are moveing at roughly the same speed the interstate should be safe no matter what the speed is). |
| C O M M E N T S |
|
Home »
Topic: Retrogaming - Preserving the past or eating companies' profits?
|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»| |
| P O S T A C O M M E N T |
|
|
| C R A P T A G S | ||||||||
|
|
| There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details] |
Powered by blah 0.9.1-dev •
PlanetCrap is © 1997-2035 Hendrik "Morn" Mans
|