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EverQuest - The New Darwinism?
April 5th 2002, 04:35 CEST by Bezzy Twenty-one years old, and your biggest worry in life is the bastard who befriended you for six months, then killed you and looted your corpse. And then you're resurrected, and the Elf-Magician whore won't give back the dough. It irks you so much, that there’s truly no way out! That's right, folks. Another bi-monthly game related death/lawsuit is in the news, and this one is a peach: A psychologist diagnosed him with depression and schizoid personality disorder, symptoms of which include a lack of desire for social relationships, little or no sex drive and a limited range of emotions in social settings. "This fed right into the EverQuest playing," Woolley said. "It was the perfect escape." and intriguingly enough... "He thought the characters had come out of the game and were chasing him," Parker said. "He was running through his neighbourhood having hallucinations." "EVERYONE! OUT OF MY WAY! RUN, LADY! I'M TRAINING ORCS!!!!!" You have to wonder about a kid, killing his sweet young flabby self over a video game. Sure, there's something inherently wrong with this picture of a bright young technocrat offing himself, but there has to be a lot more going on here than the reaction to a video game, right? Right? Or is EverQuest merely the net that catches society's emotion dregs? Is being PK'd by an online best-friend the 00's equivalent of freezing experiments in the Dachau? With its recent fee increase, is Sony Entertainment providing a public service by narrowing out and offing the most hard core lovers of derogatory game play? "The manufacturer of EverQuest purposely made it in such a way that it is more intriguing to the addict," Parker said. "It could be created in a less addictive way, but (that) would be the difference between powdered cocaine and crack cocaine." I say, let's applaud them, if not for culling our sons, then for giving the media something to create a fun and stupid frenzy over. |
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Topic: EverQuest - The New Darwinism?
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You're scaring me. :( No worries, Ashiran, just thought others would also like to put themselves out of their misery early with the return of the coffee discussion. :) "It's not stupid -- it's advanced!"
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Gunpoint LOL Warren I think you have a new friend... a short hairy smelly one with green skin... No shit. Not sure what I did to attract his attention. Maybe if I stand very still he'll go away ... I think their vision is based on movement. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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Warren Dungeon Siege, like most games, is tons more fun if you play with friends. I just had a 3 hour session with the guys from Legend ... great stuff. :) If I had friends, I'd debate this point. I finished the SP mission a couple days ago, then blasted through the MP in four hours with my imported primary character from the SP. Final conclusion: GPG made an amazingly powerful engine with a good interface, some AI issues, and never got around to writing a plot for either of the worlds. Though the books some characters carry when you hire them hinted that there were plans to implement something a bit more involving at some point. Oh, and the guy who did the soundtrack (Lennie something?) rocks your symphonic ass off. Siegelets might be somewhat viable, but I'm not willing to wade through all the crap to find one or two ones of merit. Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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By the way Bezzy the main reason I posted to this thread was the rather excellent topic title! Well done old man. "It was when I found out I could make mistakes that I knew I was on to something."
-Ornette Coleman |
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Bailey I don't know what people are expecting. The developers have said "hack and slash" from day one. Was there ever any pretense of an engaging storyline? I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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The FUCKING BOOKS. Hey, nothing like taking advantage of your wonderful engine by putting all your exposition into STATIC BLOCKS OF TINY AND HARD-TO-READ TEXT. None of it was particularly interesting either, because I knew it would have no real bearing on the game. I liked the story about the goldsniffer donkey. I just don't know why they bothered to put the books in at all, if there was supposed to be no "pretense of an engaging storyline". If it's supposed to be pure hack and slash, don't put useless crap in my inventory. Marketing is a crutch for mediocrity and a handicap to excellence.
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Well, the key is, the books are optional. It isn't like they made you sit through cut scenes involving the info in the books. As for why they're there ... probably just filler, like the newspapers laying around in Deus Ex. Served no purpose other than fleshing out the world. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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Warren I don't know what people are expecting. The developers have said "hack and slash" from day one. Was there ever any pretense of an engaging storyline? I think it's just the genre DS touches upon. RPGs and the whatnot, even though it clearly has little to do with that particular genre. Hell, even Diablo had storytelling elements when you chatted with the townsfolk, so you can't really brush off the hack n' slash genre as a whole. Severence: Blade of Darkness is another example, pure hackfest with an underlying narrated story, however weak. You just expect, well, something. DS, on the other hand, was just a template for people to create their own Siegelets, and while it annoyed me at first that it was so very very bereft of content, I think recognizing it for what it is puts the whole affair in perspective. But generally speaking, give someone a feudal fantasy setting, hand them a sword, give them statistics, and the first thing they'll expect is a story about an ancient evil or ravaging dragon to unfold before them. You just expect a reason, a purpose behind the whole affair, and DS's story was so disjointed and sparse, you don't even get that much. As I said, it bothered me at first, but I didn't even waste time thinking about it by the time I got to the swamp. Sort of a "Yeah yeah, some dude, some bitch, whatever" situation. The scenery alone is enough to encourage a person to keep playing, if not for the constant haze/ snow/ massive trees blocking your view of what the hell is going on. I must've played about a third of the game in Megamap mode just to be able see where I was going. Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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I actually don't find the graphics all that amazing. I mean, yeah, they look pretty good but the textures are kind of low res ... even when you zoom in it's not earth shatteringly great. The snowy town looks cool though, and I love looking at the cliffs with snow hanging over them. I haven't played all that far, but I wish there was more time spent above ground. But I suppose the word "Dungeon" in the title prevents that really ... The most fun I've had so far is when I was cruising through the forested areas at the start and guys would run out of the trees at me. Crawling through dungeons you don't get any of that cool exploration that you get with outdoor areas. I LOVE walking off the beaten path and discovering some old crypt or a hidden cave. Even if the locations are empty, it's totally cool to stumble over stuff like that. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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By the way Bezzy the main reason I posted to this thread was the rather excellent topic title! Nice face, shame about the body? Warren says: As for why they're there ... probably just filler, like the newspapers laying around in Deus Ex. Served no purpose other than fleshing out the world. Matthew says: If it's supposed to be pure hack and slash, don't put useless crap in my inventory. I agree with both sides, but only to a degree. In my opinion, stories and premise have been abusing games for quite some time, without even passable quality. A game becomes a genre when it's an easy way to present a theme or story with it. That's why Tetris is merely a "puzzle game" (and it's not even a puzzle), and wolfenstein 3D has been dressed up than julia roberts back when she was a whore to a rich guy. Sure, an interesting plot will outsell a purely interesting game mechanic, but it's getting fucking boring to play the same game over and over, re-packaged. It's disheartening that most people don't see through the genericism sooner. It's not that I have a problem with games that have plots, but I have a problem with them being included unnecessarily, and/or badly. Seeing some plots makes me almost think that they're an excuse for poor game play, whether that be the case or not. Reading the two paragraph story for Doom in the manual really makes you wonder why they bother with this facade, especially for what is a strong game on its own merits, even without some assinine plot. It's just a shame that people don't realize that the bar for game stories is set so low, and indeed that a story for a game is really not necessarily necessary, and still designers feel that most people's non-acceptance of games as an artform is unjustified. When you present them with pap, what do you expect their reaction to be? Better plots please, or just none at all. K thx. Sick and tired and not impressed with shoehorning art into a profitable industry.
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It's not that I have a problem with games that have plots, but I have a problem with them being included unnecessarily, and/or badly. And as a replacement for some original thought to the game mechanic itself. Adding some "neet" extra feature like secondary fire is not fucking original or helpful. Sick and tired and not impressed with shoehorning art into a profitable industry.
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re: the topic. i voted "no". re: the situation. everquest has had a half million people playing the game for almost three years. if it were this bad, we'd have had more lawsuits by now. tip to mom: your child was weak, and you are both stupid and irresponsible. thank you, and have a nice day. - if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller |
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I really think people who want games to be novels are in the minority. Most people just want to have fun for a few hours before going to bed. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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...your child was weak... A new side of crash, folks... the mighty Eugenics Man! ;-) Hit me - I'm wasting valuable time.
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I like to have fun for a few hours after going to bed. -- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972! |
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Warren, I'm not contending that, but with so few good examples of useful story telling in games, is it any wonder that virtually no-one is interested? They've barely been introduced to the notion, after all. I'll admit that I'm not part of that minority, either, but I don't believe it's healthy to write off any avenue of use of games, whether I personally like it or not. Sick and tired and not impressed with shoehorning art into a profitable industry.
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Brad Pitt is SO HOT!! I just can't stop thinking about him. OMG!!! They should slap him up with a warning label. Warning: I'm just too sexy! Slap! Slap! I'M ADDICTED TO TEH PITT!1! Athena M Rolando |
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I want to get addicted too! Does anyone know of any, ANY, MMOGs that can be played well with a 28.8k modem? Please don't laugh. www.planetarion.com Get on with it now, I want to see you addicted by the morning. |
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Shit, I forgot the warning label for planetarion... Please don't sue. Pretty please. |
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Well, the key is, the books are optional. Are you sure? There isn't anything in the game to guarantee that a book won't be used or won't contain a clue to a puzzle. Putting it in the class of "things a player can carry" automatically puts it in the class of "things a player might have a use for later". For a pure hack n' slash, that sort of ambiguity is a load of bull, especially since they've made a limited inventory part of the game mechanics. Items have uses. Seems logical enough. Nobody has "Tome of the History of Generoland" on their pen and paper avatar's character sheet. It's a separate thing, and that is the key. Marketing is a crutch for mediocrity and a handicap to excellence.
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Does anyone here even play any MMOGs anymore? |
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People who play MMOGs don't have time for messageboards that don't pertain to their MMOG of choice. Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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Is that why this turned into PlanetAnarchyOnlineCrap for a bit? |
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People who play MMOGs don't have time for messageboards that don't pertain to their MMOG of choice. they do if they know what the word "moderation" means. or if they understand "time management". most don't, true. - if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller |
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Matthew Yeah, I'll admit that allowing you to carry them in your inventory is teh dumb and does lead you to think they're more important than they are. I am a magnificent three toed sloth.
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Bob Is that why this turned into PlanetAnarchyOnlineCrap for a bit? That happened because everyone loves slowing down and looking at a gruesome car accident on the highway. crash they do if they know what the word "moderation" means. or if they understand "time management". Also known as "not winning" in MMOG circles. Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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For everyone bringing up the warnings in PC game manuals: I wasn't implying that Dungeon Siege was the first. I just have an example of 4 recently released games (JK2, FF, M&M9, and DS) and DS is the only one to have any kind of warning in its manual. About the Dungeon Siege books: It looks like a pretty subtle reference to the Ultima games (and others?). The Ultimas had books all over the place that meant absolutely nothing but gave some insight into the world. Greg
-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having! |
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Bailey: Also known as "not winning" in MMOG circles. if they think winning is possible, then they've already lost. the time-management and moderation aspects sort of cease to apply, in those cases, because no perspective = no understanding = cat ass. - if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller |
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Heh... It's always interesting to note that the players of MMOGs are marketed as it's greatest feature, and yet are the greatest deterrent from actually getting the game for those who "don't get the point" of a MMOG. Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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#73 by Caryn No worries, Ashiran, just thought others would also like to put themselves out of their misery early with the return of the coffee discussion. :) Oh, well in that case. What I want to do. Go over to a MacDonalds. Spill hot coffee over myself. Watch how the managment panics. And then NOT sue after which I take a picture of their faces and post it on www.priceless.com. Companies who make banners that are an insult to the intellect should be sued.
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Then you can take a picture of your boiled, blister-covered naughty bits and send it in to rotten.com! It's win-win! Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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From what I can gather after endless (and pointless) discussion over the entire McDCL is that Ashirans plan won't work. Isn't the coffee a lot less hot now so that this can't happen again? (No, I don't want to hear how the coffee wasn't hot to begin with or how the lady didn't get burned at all to begin with. Shut up.) -- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972! |
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planetarion == cluster fuck of time wasting, unless you score into a big alliance, youre going to be raped and pissed off with the game. trust me, I was in the top 30 in season 2 and got attacked by so many ships that the server took 4 hours to proccess the (hourly) round. Something like 4.8million ships attacked my 10k strong fleet and took 70% of my asteroids in the course of a day. unfun when you can get fucked over like that because someone saw you as an easy target (and can sit and spy and monitor the game 18 hours a day). Im still playing Dark age of camelot, but see, I play it in fits and starts, a coupla hours here, might not play again for a few days.... I learned my lesson from being MUD addicted, I can handle it better now. Course, Im not playing for phat lewt or to be `teh bestest!`, I`m playing with friends for a laugh on a very laid back and relaxed server whos inhabitants seem to realise that helping each other out so they can level up means they can go whoop on some ALbion or Midgard (especially the heathen Middies) hides. It`d be nice tho, if GOA/Camelot get round to fixing Hibernia one of these days, the magic realm has the weakest magic, crummy tanks, armour vastly inferior to the other realms and up until we got patch 1.46 totally cained in RVR. As it was a level 50 dwarf of some class was able to run through 12 of our level 40+`s and massacre a party of 30 or so 25-35s, by `herself` without us being able to do shit about it. When a class can have an ac 3x as good as your top tank player, can out run your fastest class (with buffs) and outhit your tanks and their ability to absorb damage (Im a level 26 druid with af 280 and got hit for 800hp in ONE hit) you have to think somethings fucked up. Ds Never argue with an idiot, theyll drag you down onto their level, then beat you with experience.
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Bob,no joe,no jim,no chuck www.planetarion.com Get on with it now, I want to see you addicted by the morning. I used to play that when it was still free (around the third round) and it was really cool. I stopped playing when they started charging money for clicking a few checkboxes, drop down boxes and input fields. The game is too simple to be worth money, IMO. oh BTW according to the banner ad I'm looking at, America is still Under Attack! good thing I use the hosts file editing trick at home (I'm at school now) "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
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The land of the brave and home of the free that is America is always under attack. Mostly from it's own government though but that's another discussion... -- Martin
Hunkalicious since 1972! |
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#105 by Darkseid-D It`d be nice tho, if GOA/Camelot get round to fixing Hibernia one of these days, the magic realm has the weakest magic, crummy tanks, armour vastly inferior to the other realms and up until we got patch 1.46 totally cained in RVR. As it was a level 50 dwarf of some class was able to run through 12 of our level 40+`s and massacre a party of 30 or so 25-35s, by `herself` without us being able to do shit about it. When a class can have an ac 3x as good as your top tank player, can out run your fastest class (with buffs) and outhit your tanks and their ability to absorb damage (Im a level 26 druid with af 280 and got hit for 800hp in ONE hit) you have to think somethings fucked up. Ugh. This is not an attack on DS-D, just on MMOthingies in general. Every time I get vaguely into a state of mind where I might think about joining up a MMO-thingy, I read a statement like the above quoted the feeling goes away. It just gives me a pounding headache, trying to parse the potential ugliness of the "whosiwhatsi class flammabamma XYZ's from the boobookitty realm being able to totally nitrous oxide the gold pressed latinum's best tax audits in double jeopardy no matter how many cans of cheez whiz your Level 42 U2 UB40's can dish out in one round sucks, because the Ransom of Red Chief is totally broken." And then I go and play a nice satisfying peaceful session of Diablo 2 single player. |
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Where's My BooBooKitty? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! "God is dead." --Nietzsche, 1883
"Nietzsche is dead." --God, 1900 |
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Hugin And then I go and play a nice satisfying peaceful session of Diablo 2 single player. You had me up until this statement, and then you threw it all away. Apparently recession means pop-up windows.
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What's wrong with Diablo 2? Load up little hacking person. Hack hack hack. Exit program. Simple, aggrivation free. Happy. Okay, except for the saving scheme, with indeed did suck. |
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I think if EQ has a warning label, then discussion thread Web sites should have a warning. "Welcome to PlanetCrap 6.0! WARNING: MAY CAUSE CHOKING WHILE LAUGHING, WEIGHT GAIN, BRAIN DAMAGE, OFFENCE." Oh god yes! My grandmother nearly died of suffocation while reading this site! Time to sue Morn! Lawsuit! Lawsuit! Happy! Happy! Gay! Gay! |
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My grandmother nearly died of suffocation while reading this site! did she spill her coffee reading it? then morn is in even bigger trouble. "I'm not sleeping with a junior high-schooler, I have a life sized doll that looks just like one."
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Hugin You went from an admittedly overtly complex system of evaluating combat to one that involves minimal synaptic response. Do not embrace either extreme. I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
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Hugin: Every time I get vaguely into a state of mind where I might think about joining up a MMO-thingy, I read a statement like the above quoted the feeling goes away. but of course, describing a good round of Q3A or MOH:AA or Diablo 2 is totally different. "dude, i had his ass on DM6 but the choad was campin the RA so i went down below and RJ'd back up on the deck and spanked his perching ass with some quad lightning." it's just context. - if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller |
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Ah. See, the other extreme was just a violent counterreaction though. |
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crash, why not just use the "every game is Pong" argument? It's quicker and saves everyone a lot of time. |
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because, uh, every game isn't pong...? - if you can laugh at it, you can live with it.
- "Hey, how 'bout this: fuck you." -LPMiller |
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I'm still too unsure to actually buy a commercial MMOG, at least until I know how these things will respond to my modem. I play UO back in the start and it was "playable" lag most of the time, but that was with 56K... jesus, most people's connections improve over time, mine downgrades. So I downloaded StarPeace, RuneScape, and Mankind... I'm sure not the best of examples, but we'll see. StarPeace sounds cool. |
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Right. Every game is "Adventure". I am laughing at the horror of being alive.
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Bob: If you want to try out PIGs, do some betas. AC2's got a public beta this summer. You're the new nazis.
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Bailey, I think they all try to be "Adventure", but they forget the bats. Greg
-Swallow it all and be glad, for a shilling I've paid and a shilling's worth I'll be having! |
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