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Pressure Valve
May 24th 2000, 09:12 CEST by andy Valve has long been regarded as the most respectable of the FPS companies, but some recent events have cast a shadow on that image. The latest controversy looks set to not just turn people away from the company, but may raise questions about its long-term commitment to mod developers. When Valve decided to invest in the Counter-Strike mod and make it an official Half-Life add-on, there were mumbles of discontent in the community. The decision was widely seen as a positive move to support a few dedicated mod authors, but some people saw it as a kick in the teeth to those working on other popular projects. The next Half-Life patch is expected soon, and then an upgrade is likely to be released which will include Counter-Strike. To be compatible with the new version of the game, mods must be upgraded using v2.0 of the Half-Life development kit. For the Action Half-Life mod, and possibly several others, this signals the end of the road. Because the new development kit no longer supports a feature known as "hull type 3", which is needed for some Action Half-Life features, the mod can only be compiled with the old development kit and will therefore not be compatible with the upgraded game. Even if fans of Action Half-Life choose not to upgrade so they can continue playing the mod, old clients may not be compatible with the WON registration system that is required to play. Some fans of Action Half-Life see this as an act of sabotage by Valve, believing that the company wants to cut down the number of available mods so that Counter-Strike can become the dominant add-on. Even if support for "hull type 3" is later re-implemented, it will likely be too late for other mods to gain much of a following. Action Half-Life is one of the most established Half-Life mods, having been around since shortly after the game was released. The current version was released as a third beta, with one more patch expected before the v1.0 release. According to Ryan Roper, the Action Half-Life team manager, the mod does not likely have any future unless "hull type 3" support is added to the latest development kit. Valve has said that it will look into the problem but has given no estimate of when support could be made available, if at all. The company often takes several months to release patches. |
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Mr_Grim is the current Head Coder for AHL. Im currently the Head Coder on Action Unreal Tournament. We have already been in development... |
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What if someone came out with a multiplayer mod, that was a sci-fi scene, incorpated a unique scoring/goals system, had great teamplay, and had player controlled vehicles. People WOULD play this. and, yes, contrary to popular belief, player controlled vehicles are possible with the Half-Life SDK. Cs does not have a "monopoly" on Half-Life multiplayer. There is soo much more that can and will be done. If a game has a unique idea, and is a GOOD game, and is available, it will be played. (D&D universe, Hong Kong Blood Opera, Sci Fi).. It just has to be seen if a mod with an idea will reach a certain level of quality that meets or surpasses Counterstrike. And i DO think people out there have that kind of talent. 90% of the mods i see out there though, are NOT original, and are just boring, buggy, half-completed, and copies of other mods. All the weapons are insta-hit "bullet" weapons. This aint always a bad thing (AHL, Counterstrike use only these weapons + melee weapon i think), but there is sooo much more that people can do.. -ilian |
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actually Weapons Factory Arena _0wns_ Quake 3 :) fun fun fun fun :) Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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My thoughts exactly. But I swear I'm getting tired of ports to UT of Quake mods. And how many TF clones are there? Theere is even SoF TF. Pete<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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I really hope what I read today about Looking Glass getting shut down isn't true. That truly, truly sucks. :( |
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<b>#143</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE>I really hope what I read today about Looking Glass getting shut down isn't true. That truly, truly sucks. :( </QUOTE> Nothing short of a tragedy for the gaming community. But it looks very likely to be true. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#143</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE>I really hope what I read today about Looking Glass getting shut down isn't true. That truly, truly sucks. :( </QUOTE> It's true...I just printed an open letter from a former designer on BN...go check it out. -jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Am i the only 1 who HATES daily radar? they ruined some great sites like PCGAMER I hope they all burn in hell |
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<b>#143</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE>I really hope what I read today about Looking Glass getting shut down isn't true. That truly, truly sucks. :( </QUOTE> Being in denial is an ugly thing, friend. Suppose it's true until Looking Glass themselves say it's not. I was saddened by this also. On a lighter note, I actually *want* to review Daikatana. Will reviewers be able to completely review the game without slapping a big "loser" sticker on it? Sure, some reviews will be utterly trashy, relying upon insults, shock value and incompleteness to gain readership;, some will be comical (Lowtax) and insightful; most will have the refinement of unwashed ass. Will this game actually separate the adults from the... um... non-adults? Anyhow, Counterstrike... I plan on picking up a copy of Half-Life just for this mod. All I've heard about it is positives, and if the player base is pretty friggin' huge, then of course Valve is gonna support 'em for keeping support of Half-Life high. It's good business, not a conspiracy. Heck, I'd dream of getting paid to continue work on a mod I was gonna work on anyways.... If a mod is drawing me into a game even after a few years of the original game's release, imagine the other gamers that are doing the same. Way to go, Valve. I still don't have how hard it'll be to recompile maps for the new SDK. Can anyone give an example as to how much work is required to do this? <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Well, let's all keep in mind that the main people from Looking Glass will have no problem finding work elsewhere, particularly folks like Doug Church (an unsung hero of gaming who never gets much acclaim, but who arguably has as good a resume as any programmer/designer in the biz). |
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<quote>Will reviewers be able to completely review the game without slapping a big "loser" sticker on it? </quote> Well, I'm reviewing it and after playing through about a third of it, it better get a helluva lot better otherwise it is a big "loser"... |
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Amen, Warren. I just picked up Thief Gold, too. Great games, great company. A real shame. Never played Counter-Strike or any Half-Life mod. All that talk of HL's shaky netcode scared me off way back when and now I'm invested so much time into Tribes and UT, I'm too flat-out lazy to try to learn something new. :) But from everything I've read and seen, Valve has done a terrific job supporting mods and mod authors for HL, so I don't think the removal of this particular model property from HL is part of a plot to shut down teams working on other mods (although I'm still curious to hear *why* it was removed). Creole Ned |
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<b>#147</b> "MoodyAllen" wrote... <QUOTE>I still don't have how hard it'll be to recompile maps for the new SDK.</QUOTE> *pulls out his magic wand* This line is actually: "I still don't have an idea of how hard it'll be to recompile maps for the new SDK." You never saw this mistake. You didn't see this post.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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So _that's_ who Epic are hiring .... hrm .. if Eidos kept Ion Storm afloat sans product why the buggering hell cant they key TTLG afloat ? /me goes to his corner to weep and mourn the loss of such greatness Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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They won't have trouble getting work but work has to first exist for that to happen. :\<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<quote>hrm .. if Eidos kept Ion Storm afloat sans product why the buggering hell cant they key TTLG afloat </quote> I don't think they have any ownership stake in Looking Glass... they're just their publisher/distributor. Eidos owns part of ION Storm. It's possible LG had enough long-term debt that no one wanted to purchase them. |
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<b>#143</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE>I really hope what I read today about Looking Glass getting shut down isn't true. That truly, truly sucks. :(</QUOTE> I haven't seen anything new on it yet (just woke up) but c'mon, it was from an undisclosed source. Hasn't the Adrenaline Vault done stuff like this before? -- Dethstryk Damage Gaming |
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All progression comes at a cost. To all of you whining and bitching about how Valve "sabotaged" the AHL project, refer back to the above statement. So you get a new SDK, optimized netcode and a slew of new visualization features? I wouldn't be complaining, I'd be working. Improving and advancing my product until it was polished beyond belief. Counter-Strike has every reason to dominate the Half-Life mod scene in such a way, too. It provided us with thrilling new gameplay and some nifty eyecandy, and best of all, it was <b>FREE</b>. And to that mark, I'll have to say that Half-Life would be in the $9.99 bin at CompUSA if it weren't for such dramatic support by Valve. What sort of company releases its product for other people to edit at their leisure? A company that <b>CARES</b> about its fans. Half-Life was released two years ago and yet it still dominates the online multiplayer scene. Be thankful and appreciative of a company that supports its product and its fanbase so well. Counter-Strike is a prime example of this, only because it annihilates Q3A and UT combined in servers, players, and time online. All because Valve decided to step in and offer their services to further the mod. How many game companies take action like that? You can probably count that figure on your fingers. And it only makes sense for them to support it because it: a) Furthers development. b) Furthers interest. c) Furthers capital. I decided it would be the best option on my behalf to involve myself with the CS community only on the fact that I'd have plenty of people to work with - Counter-Strike isn't dying soon. So in retrospect, quit whining and enjoy the support from a kickass team of developers that enjoy seeing what a little fuel of support can do in the fire of popularity. End rant. - Adam "aeflux" McDonald - <a href="http://csnation.counter-strike.net/">http://csnation.counter-strike.net/</a> |
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Well, it's confirmed. One of the few companies actually making unique and cool games is going under. Bah! It would be nice to have a thread on that. Hey, Thief2 had a patch ... it's worthy of a thread isn't it? |
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well here is what i think ..... what is happening here is survival of the fittest. Valve does not intend to "Kill" AHL, but think about it....would you go and spend all your money trying to fix every problem that arrives at the moment it happens. If you were in their position i think that you would make the same decision. they are just doing what every person who owned a large coherant super gaming corporation would do :) |
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I love it when people don't read everything and make themselves look like assholes :) |
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Weapons Factory Arena does'nt even own Q3F. http://www.gamespy.com/stats/mods.asp?id=22 And I'm glad Looking Glass Studios is closing down. They always made out of date games. Sucky graphics and single player only games. I was too busy playing Doom <i>over the modem<i> to ever play System Shock. Never played it, never will. And don't tell me that I missed out, because I did'nt. I played the System Shock 2 demo and I <i>hated<i> it. I did'nt even play all the way through it. I did'nt want too. That'd be like forcing me to play Daikatana. |
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re: #160 Go away.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#154</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote... <QUOTE>hrm .. if Eidos kept Ion Storm afloat sans product why the buggering hell cant they key TTLG afloat I don't think they have any ownership stake in Looking Glass... they're just their publisher/distributor. Eidos owns part of ION Storm. It's possible LG had enough long-term debt that no one wanted to purchase them. </QUOTE> They were talking about being bought by Eidos. It never happened. Any speculation I could offer as to why had already been made so I don't think I'll repeat it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#160</b> "" wrote... <QUOTE>And I'm glad Looking Glass Studios is closing down. They always made out of date games. Sucky graphics and single player only games. </QUOTE> Your loss. And sucky graphics? System Shock had sloping floors during the time of Doom. Besides, I don't think anyone else here will disagree that gameplay comes before graphics invariably, and every LG game was loaded with gameplay. Pete P.S. Are you JeffK?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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#160 Sucky graphics? Sure, but they're games had the one thing that everybody claims they want : gameplay. Thief2 is just about the best game I've ever played... |
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I meant "their games", but I'm a moron so you'll have to forgive me. :( |
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System Shock had suckly graphics?! Hardly... System Shock even had perspective correct texture mapper! Many people would tell me that Quake was the first game that had it... nope :) SS also had a true 3D world (non of that 2.5D Doom stuff). nick b. |
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<b>#166</b> "Nick" wrote... <QUOTE>SS also had a true 3D world (non of that 2.5D Doom stuff).</QUOTE> 2.5D? Wasn't that term brought into play when Duke Nukem came out? -- Dethstryk Damage Gaming |
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<quote>I'll have to say that Half-Life would be in the $9.99 bin at CompUSA if it weren't for such dramatic support by Valve</quote> This is always an interesting theory, but it doesn't really hold up to close scrutiny. People don't buy games to play mods (most mod players are early adopters anyway). They CONTINUE to play games to play mods, and it might, just might, lead a guy to get his buddy to buy the game. (Of course a few people will jump in and say, "I didn't buy Half-Life until Counter-strike appeared," to which I'd just say that you're an anomoly.) The reason it's still selling is continued marketing by Sierra, lots of awards, and... well, it's a great game. It doesn't explain why the non-configurable RollerCoaster Tycoon, with no mods, is still outselling Half-Life, and has nearly twice its sales. Yeah, apples/oranges, but the existence of mods doesn't necessarily improve sales, nor does the non-existence. |
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Damn.....u guys got no life..u spend most of your time playing games and posting and reading these junk...i don't even know why i bother posting this...go out, watch a movie, find yourself a nice girl...u know what to do from there. |
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<b>#36</b> "RedLine" wrote... <quote>a company can sit back, watch all the mods develop, and when they see something that is really popular and looks interesting, they can buy it or hire the people that made it and make something of it</quote> <QUOTE>the farmer sweeps in, makes me a good offer, and makes a bit extra himself.</QUOTE> <QUOTE>Now if this happens entirely by accident, there's nothing wrong with it... </QUOTE> <quote>But what if this "farmer" has spies all over the country, looking at thousands of fields just like mine, where people grow things just of the fun of it... he watches and waits while these people bear out all the risks, and then he swoops in when it's time.</quote> <QUOTE>if companies are going to do this kind of watching, waiting game (Some would call it poaching, but that carries too many of the wrong meanings, for me at least) I do think they should come out and be honest about it, and offer more support.</QUOTE> Are you TRYING to make no sense? You think that when a company pays someone money for a product they have created that it is somehow a bad deal for them? What is more SUPPORTIVE of a mod than PAYING the developers? If they don't like the terms of the contract they don't have to agree to it. This is even more illogical than your little webmaster vs. big webmaster argument. <b>#61</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote... <QUOTE>Pauline Kael, the great film critic for the New Yorker</QUOTE> Personally I prefer Anthony Lane.. but I'm a critic :) <b>#148</b> "Steve Bauman" wrote... <QUOTE>particularly folks like Doug Church (an unsung hero of gaming who never gets much acclaim, but who arguably has as good a resume as any programmer/designer in the biz).</QUOTE> Unsung hero? He's the most well-known unsung hero I've ever heard of... I've read at least a dozen interviews using that same phrase to describe him. (Note: I'm not doubting the hero... just the unsung part) <b>#157</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE>Well, it's confirmed. One of the few companies actually making unique and cool games is going under. Bah!</QUOTE> Man I just hope that someone in the company still owns the Thief property, rather than some publisher. A crappy Thief III is worse than none at all. Speaking of which, have you ever confronted Legend about StarControl 3? <b>Disclaimer</b>: <i>Having just read through the last hundred comments most of what I am going to say in this last section is redundant, ill informed and perhaps even inflammatory. But I spent my precious time writing it, so what the hell.</i> To stay on topic (even if only slightly), doesn't anyone recall when the Counter-Strike team decided to recompile all their maps so that breakable ents (boxes, windows, etc,.) would be regenerated each round. As far as I know you'd probably have to recompile all the original Half-Life maps as well to support this functionality. Which makes sense, considering that regenerating ents (like the ability to lie prone) were coded by a 3rd party to Valve. - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#169</b> "hangook" wrote... <QUOTE>Damn.....u guys got no life..u spend most of your time playing games and posting and reading these junk...i don't even know why i bother posting this...go out, watch a movie, find yourself a nice girl...u know what to do from there. </QUOTE> You know what the funny thing is? This guy is probably just as big a loser as he acuses us of being. Meanwhile we're the normal ones, with jobs and lives away from the computer. :) And what's with the sudden influx of weirdos? Did we get a plug on Shugashack or something? -jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#160</b> "" wrote... <QUOTE>And I'm glad Looking Glass Studios is closing down. They always made out of date games. Sucky graphics and single player only games.</QUOTE> I'll take five of those over most "modern" games any day of the week. -jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#169</b> "hangook" wrote... <QUOTE>Damn.....u guys got no life..u spend most of your time playing games and posting and reading these junk...</QUOTE> Ouch, that really hurts. <b>#160</b> "" wrote... <QUOTE>They always made out of date games. Sucky graphics and single player only games. </QUOTE> Some of the most entertaining games I ever played fit that description; and just because something is online with a flashy engine doesn't mean it's any good. Hell, I think Oregon Trail for my old Apple //e is a lot more entertaining than most of the crap coming out of the FPS industry right now. <b>#91</b> "RzE" wrote... <QUOTE>Show me someone who hasn't played CS, and I'll show you someone who isn't a true gamer. </QUOTE> I deleted Half-Life after playing single player, determining it really wasn't anything special, and then playing multiplayer, and determining it was laggy and nothing special. I never reinstalled the game to see if people could actually make mods which made it FUN. IMO HalfLife's success is more due to marketing, timing, and good luck than to any actual value in the game; but then that's not the topic. Maybe I'll go dig through my old CDs to see if I can find this thing and give CS a try; not right this moment, but maybe some time in the future. But then, maybe not. I'm thinking now that I used that CD as a coaster. Jeremy<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<quote>Unsung hero? He's the most well-known unsung hero I've ever heard of... I've read at least a dozen interviews using that same phrase to describe him. (Note: I'm not doubting the hero... just the unsung part) </quote> Well, when people rattle off the big names in 3D, you hear Carmack, Sweeney, Justin Chin and all the Dallas guys. Rarely does anyone mention Doug Church or Looking Glass. Maybe I'm just not paying attention, I dunno... |
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ehhhh... wtf? its 5/24, not 5/25 |
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neway, YES CS V1.0 will be OUT W/ HL RELEASE RETARDS, JUST THOGUHT ID SAY THAT TO SET THE RECPORD STRAIGHT.... now if youll excuse me, i have a dog to fuck |
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IM superman your all gay and i can fly |
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<b>#175</b> "ehhhh" wrote... <QUOTE>ehhhh... wtf? its 5/24, not 5/25 </QUOTE> I'm trying to figure out whether that was some really poor attempt at humor, or if this fellow really doesn't understand GMT. Jeremy<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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I'M GAY |
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Im gay like all of you! suck my cock |
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The trolls are back and they brought friends. Everybody remembers not to feed the trolls right? V<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<QUOTE> People WOULD play this. and, yes, contrary to popular belief, player controlled vehicles are possible with the Half-Life SDK. </QUOTE> And i know how to do it too. Hint: RPG Email me if you wanna know more, ill be glad to pass on what little i know about programming to you. [176] <QUOTE> neway, YES CS V1.0 will be OUT W/ HL RELEASE RETARDS, JUST THOGUHT ID SAY THAT TO SET THE RECPORD STRAIGHT.... now if youll excuse me, i have a dog to fuck </QUOTE> Yuh, whatever. You keep spounting your shit, you immature little troll. You have no clue about what valve is doing. CS will <B>NOT</B> be released with the fucking patch. I have said it before, because Gabe Newell <I>SAID SO</I>. If you are too ignorant and egocentric to admit your wrong and rather stupid, thats your problem. But from now on, please dont bring your trollish mental capabilities here, it scares the customers and infuriates the regulars. |
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eeh said: <Quote> now if youll excuse me, i have a dog to fuck </Quote> I know your mom likes the dirty talk, but still that's no way to talk about your own mother;-P - Paul |
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Wow there are some really horrible people in this community. I've only skimmed through the last 200-odd comments but I saw about fifty posts saying "the AHL team weren't professionals, they were just a bunch of casual gamers, who gives a shit about them". And here I was thinking that games were made modifiable so casual gamers could have a go at doing their own mods for fun. Now apparently you have to be 'professional' and make a stack of cash from your work, otherwise you're scum. You should be ashamed of yourselves. AHL team - I've never played your mod, I have no idea what it's like, but if you're having fun making it and people are having fun playing it then I wish you the best of luck and I hope you can work through the problems. |
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<b>#184</b> "Andy" wrote... <QUOTE>I've only skimmed through the last 200-odd comments but I saw about fifty posts saying "the AHL team weren't professionals, they were just a bunch of casual gamers, who gives a shit about them". </QUOTE> Nobody's saying that...or at least, I wasn't anyway. My point (which has since been proven moot by Lacutis) was that when a team throws up their hands and says that it's impossible to fix their mod it's more likely to be their fault than Valve's, since they aren't professional prgorammers. -jason<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Loony, When they downloaded the SDK they didn't have to sign anything saying they were professionals, they were allowed to just download it and start coding. Then Valve removes a feature that breaks the mod and somehow this is the AHL team's fault? (I know you've not said that explicitly, but it's what your comments amount to.) I don't know how you think a 'professional' team could handle this any differently. Valve has changed the engine. How is someone meant to work around that when they only have access to the SDK? Even if they could it would no doubt be some horrible hack, and as they're doing it for fun they probably want to avoid that. Here's an idea - reply to this without using your keyboard. You can cut+paste one letter at a time using the mouse, and you're a professional after all. You <i>could</i> do it, but I bet you wouldn't be happy if you were forced to. |
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loonyboi <quote>And what's with the sudden influx of weirdos? Did we get a plug on Shugashack or something?</quote> That's my theory. That's what it usually means when the trolls start showing up. |
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I very sad about the passing of looking glass. I honestly feel System shock is the best game every made. I'll go so far as to say it makes other games look rather stupid. Not because of Graphics, I'm sorry, if your overly impressed with spiffy graphics you probably get distracted by shiny objects. But the insanely deep and detailed game play. Not only way the mechanics of the game innovative, but the complete picture of the world you were involved with was amazing. SS2 unlike most game was a very non cinematic game to me. It was more like a good book. The details kept revealing themselves. Grand details (someone is tampering with xerxes) to minor stuff (like the basket ball team that was the lap dog of the VanBruan). Unlike so many games not every bit of information was used as a tool to advance the plot. It was used to advance the atmosphere. There are too many Porno games in the world. I use that description because in Porno people have sex just because they have genitals. This is why Porno is not very popular with women, they find the "why people have sex" more interesting then the fact that "people do have sex". Porno games are game where you shoot everything because it moves. If you look at upcoming games you'll see a lot of them are in development at this time. I fear the era of Literary detail and ground breaking game play that was the hallmark of Looking glass is over. And I frankly do not see a pretender to the throne. As to the people that point and mock, I condemn you to life in your own company. You have no Idea what has been lost. You don't have the base intelligence. I find I'm at the point where I find it hard to believe that anything good will come out of this industry and I'm starting to think maybe I should adopt other interest. Not very happy cow today<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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