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More Norwegian MMOG Goodness!
August 2nd 2001, 21:51 BST by Morn <a href="http://www.darkfallonline.com">Darkfall Online</a> is a new massively multiplayer online roleplaying game being developed by Norwegian developer <a href="http://www.razorwax.com">Razorwax</a>. With new MMOG titles being announced every other day, what's special about this one? Rather than lock ourselves up in our office for 3 years, cross our fingers, hope you like our game, and then release it, we are going to be doing an open development of Darkfall. More details can be found in this <a href="http://www.darkfallonline.com/features/letter/index.shtml">"Open Letter"</a> by the developers. Certainly sounds interesting, as this is something a lot of people unhappy with the traditional development cycles of large games have been suggesting for a while now. The future of game development, or a strong contender for "MMOG death of the month"? |
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Topic: More Norwegian MMOG Goodness!
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Well it seems to be official - Raven is doing Quake 4, using the new Doom engine, and set in the Stroggos milieu. Activision is publishing it, along with with a GBA Doom title, and a co-op multiplayer title from Nerve (they're currently working on Wolfenstein's multi) under a new franchise, currently untitled. Nothing about the new Doom has been said, except apparently some new footage was shown. Promote this to a topic morn? -Whisp |
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Well it seems to be official - Raven is doing Quake 4, using the new Doom engine, and set in the Stroggos milieu. You utter, utter bastard. Thanks for shoving the first spoiler in my face. I had hoped to completely avoid all knowledge/hype regarding this game, in the hopes of wringing any possible fun out of it... now I know I'm going back to that stupid planet? Already I think they've lost a sale. I want to go to the home planet of the Shamblers. Really, they looked at all the stuff that has been in Quake, and they thought, "Oh, yeah, let's go back to the orangey-red cyborg world. That's the best choice." It may seem like a small thing to some of you, but.. each Quake has shifted locales. One was the gothic mismatch, Three was the fantasy combat world, and 4 is going to be 2 again? Great. Just go right ahead and start fiddling with the unique features of the Quake franchise, I'm sure making small, seemingly insignificant changes to a time-tested pattern won't make ANY difference at all. Right? It isn't that too many publishers are dropping like flies. There isn't enough of it. |
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Someone made a good point in IRC just now. Who is the responsible party, for deciding that Q4 is on Stroggos? Carmack? Raven? A monkey in an Activision suit? WHO?? It might not seem important to you, but I'm sure that this knowledge would shed a lot of light on the eventual product. Anyone care to share? |
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Quake 2 was the only one of the Quake games with a vaguely coherent setting and storyline. There wasn't really any choice. :) Quake was a mish-mash of gothic and tech stuff with some recycled Doom plot McGuffins, Quake 3 was whatever came out of Paul Steed's warped brain running around in rejected Sonic The Hedgehog maps firing weapons from previous id games. Neither would be much use as the basis for a new sequel. |
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There wasn't really any choice. Uhm, maybe, think up a new idea? There is always a choice. Hell, spell Stroggos backwards, that would be more impressive. And it would still create the impression that Q4 will harken back to the "glory days" of Q2, which is the clear intent. Don't expect me to consider the possibilty that the Stroggos mythos is so complex that revisting the story is called for. If you think of it in the terms of, "Q2 was the most successful, okay, let's do that again," well, sure, Stroggos. (Although I still say a world of Shamblers would be much more interesting, if breaking the "new Quake whole new story" paradigm was indeed anything other than a foolish blunder.) But those aren't terms that create a compelling game, those are terms of creative bankruptcy. What gets me is that it wasn't a creative decision, it was clearly a financially motivated one. Nothing wrong with that, per se, but breaking a mainstay element of the whole series? If it was worth it, sure. But it isn't. No matter how overblown my words on this subject are, compare that to the probably fanboy rage. Or, more likely, since it is a minor change, the lessened overall interest. It might not be significant, or even noticeable... but it is assuredly greater than zero. In hopes of increasing sales by flogging the corpse of a past cash cow, whomever the person responsible for the decision was just shot himself in the foot. With a shotgun? A splinter? Too early to say. Do you think there would be any issue at all, from anyone, if they came up with a new story, even if it was the same as Q2, except the name of the planet were different, and you had tool-using dinosaur-like aliens instead of cyborgs? Hell no. You'd have people murmuring, "Wow, maybe this Quake will be really fresh and exciting!" Has there really been an upwelling of public outcry from fans, desperate to go back to Stroggos and finish the job? URLs, please. Face it, this decision, which should have been wholly motived by aesthetic reasons, instead came about out of fear and greed. Way to put a foot forward, guys. I really hope someone with more info on this decision is willing to come forward and discuss it, I'm really interested. With so little info, it is hard for me to understand the reasoning in any other terms than, "running scared." And, trust me, I want to believe Q4 will rock my socks. I have great faith in Raven, and the new Id tech, but this announcement is not a good sign. It is early yet since I brought this up, so I hope to see some comments bringing up counter-arguments more valid than, "gee, it worked the first time, what's the big deal?" Neither would be much use as the basis for a new sequel. If Q2 had been that kind of sequel to Q1, it would make sense. But it wasn't. Nor was Q3. So, why now? Hmmm? I hope I don't know why, but I think I do. |
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Jafd - "Uhm, maybe, think up a new idea?" You could do, but then why call it Quake 4 if it uses the Doom engine, has a plot completely unconnected to any of the previous three games, and is developed by a different company? |
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Gestalt- I think that's his point, in some sort of twisted way. He's saying that the only thing the other quake's have had in common have been the fact that they're almost completely unrelated to each other. Tying back into some earlier game would break that pattern. Of course, the fact that they haven't been related has also been one of the primary focus points for the whiners, who complain because they weren't related in plot or theme. -Whisp |
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This happens with other series as well. There's very little to tie the 9+ Final Fantasy games together. |
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I ganked this from a site linked from Blue's, emphasis mine: The return to the Stroggos setting of Quake II made sense because it is the richest of the three Quake games in terms of backstory, according to Stratton. Note the key word there: richest. Every journey begins with a single step, and now we have further insight into the minds behind this boondoggle. As I mentioned before, I am expected to believe that there is more to the epic saga of Humans vs. Stroggos? Sure, that story can be told, but what on earth for? Oh, yeah, right: riches. However he said it may not be a straight sequel to Quake II (meaning we may not see what happened to the Space Marine at the end of Quake II after he lifted his hand out the capsule). "It's going to be an extension of what is happening in that universe and that setting," he said. It is worse than I thought. They are being creative, with both left feet. I'm willing to lay dollars to doughnuts that the guy who's desk the buck stops at who made the final decision on this doesn't have anything to do with actually creating the game. "Okay, Michelangelo, here's some cash. But you have to use nothing but shades of purple! Purple sells BIG!!!" Please understand me when I say that all this isn't going to have anything to do with the actual quality of the game. Raven/Id is a proven delicious combo. But this misstep sets up a perception in the public mind that they are so desperate for creativity that they had to scurry back to the shelter of past success to shore up a future one. Er, I mean, shore up that perception. Of course, the fact that they haven't been related has also been one of the primary focus points for the whiners, who complain because they weren't related in plot or theme. I remember a few vague rumblings about this before Q2 came out, but I don't think it has been an actual issue in anyone's mind for a long time now. But today, we are in a freaky bizzarro-land where folks are going to bitch about the mirror image of the same thing. Ouch. True, no such thing as bad or too much press, but in this instance, the advantage gained isn't worth the sacrifice. IMHO. "Uhm, maybe, think up a new idea?" You could do, but then why call it Quake 4 if it uses the Doom engine, has a plot completely unconnected to any of the previous three games, and is developed by a different company? That's my point exactly. Why call Quake 2, Quake 2? They set a precedent for the series, then broke it, for misguided reasons. It will toll on them in the long run. I am saddened. |
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Okay, how about Quake 4 with Stroggos *and* shamblers. Happy? |
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To be honest? Yeah, I would be. Still not an 'optimum' solution, in my view, but SFW? I still ride the bus. There's more to my position on this matter, however, than simply my belief that the Shambler is by far the 'richest' piece of Quake lore yet presented, but if the recent Q4 announcment had said "We're going to the world of the Shamblers," the points I've attempted to make would still be valid, and I'd still stand by them. On the odd chance that anyone with power is reading what I am saying and is willing to consider the possibilty that seemingly insignifcant changes can have dramatic repercussions, put a Shambler in the game. I'd prefer a baker's dozen, scattered unexpectedly, but I'd be overjoyed with getting just one. If there isn't one already. The teeming masses will bow down to you. I played Q1 and Q2 on the hardest difficulty level all the way through, and there's no doubt that the Shamblers in Ep1 were far, far more menacing than that namby-pamby sissypants robojox who passed for the 'boss monster' in Q2. I sat that guy down, first attempt, hardest skill level, no quickloading, in less than two minutes. I crossed light-years to battle this "threat"? And now I have to go back? WTF, they've bred some cyborg bunnies now? At least those would be a challenge to aim at. If you're gonna go back and cannibalize your honored dead, in the belief that eating the flesh of heros will nourish your future projects, you may as well pour it on. The Stroggos have created a machine to open interdimensional portals, they've harvested Shambler younglings to make some cyborgs to attack Earth with that will actually do more than make us reload, and our only hope is sending in the best warriors that survived the Q3 psycho circus competition. Yes, of course it is far too late in development to do all that. But, they could have. Instead, they played it safe, carrying the belief that "sequels put asses in seats." Unless, of course, they really are doing something terribly clever, or cleverer, as I have described. I believe Raven could do such a thing. If the moneydogs stood back and kept their stinky ass fingers out of the mindpie, a goofy double-play like announcing Stroggos, then when the game is close to release, saying, "Oh, didn't we tell you? The Stroggos conquered Earth and renamed it to Stroggos IV, see..." is well within their abilities. And would be a fabulous marketing tactic. Which is why I'm so interested in getting more info on whose plate this decision rests on. Please. Someone out there knows. They're not... scared... of telling anyone, are they? I don't want spoilers, details, industry secrets, nothing like that. Just, a signature. You know, that thing in the corner of a painting, usually bigger than the copyright symbol. |
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Settle down Beavis. --jmc |
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Warren - "This happens with other series as well. There's very little to tie the 9+ Final Fantasy games together" Yeah, but at least the Final Fantasy games are all developed by the same company and the same core designers. It would be pretty silly if they released a game called Final Fantasy XIV which was developed by Sega or someone. :) Jafd - ""Okay, Michelangelo, here's some cash. But you have to use nothing but shades of purple! Purple sells BIG!!!"" It's more like the Monty Python sketch really. "We want a last supper with one Christ, twelve apostles, and NO kangaroos". ;) Jafd - "Why call Quake 2, Quake 2?" Because it was based on an updated version of the Quake engine and developed by (most of) the same guys who made the original Quake? |
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Jafd - "Why call Quake 2, Quake 2?" Because it was based on an updated version of the Quake engine and developed by (most of) the same guys who made the original Quake? Fine then. Note that few, if any, of those same reasons apply to calling Quake 4, Quake $. Oops. How did my pinky get all the way over there to the shift key? Funny, that. |
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Fine then. Note that few, if any, of those same reasons apply to calling Quake 4, Quake $. Oops. How did my pinky get all the way over there to the shift key? Funny, that. Heh ... well, this may shock you but ... game companies are trying to make money! I know, I know ... but it's true! ;) |
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Of course it is true. But it is a matter of putting the cart before the horse. As I said before, it's gonna be a good game. Of course. But this misstep is going to cost them money, even though they made the decision in order to maximize their money. |
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From Blues: "It was the day that followed (five years ago today) that George Broussard made his first-ever .plan update discussing the situation, in it, among other things, he addresses a comment by American McGee who, in an IRC sessions said "Prey is not going to happen," to which George responds "Uh.. Yes it is. :D"" Heheheh... |
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As I said before, it's gonna be a good game. Of course. But this misstep is going to cost them money, even though they made the decision in order to maximize their money. What? ==================== I am a prototype for a much larger roll of duct tape. |
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As I said before, it's gonna be a good game. Of course. But this misstep is going to cost them money, even though they made the decision in order to maximize their money. What? LOL! |
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Just a test.... Oh, what the hell. Last post. |
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tsk, tsk |
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#221 Whisp tsk, tsk I know, I couldn't help myself. |
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My turn. |
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... and back to me. |
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