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Please stop it, my head is hurting!
July 4th 2001, 00:47 CEST by Morn <table align="right" border="0" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="0" width="199"><tr><td><img src="/images/misc/shaminos_friend.jpg" width="197" height="213" border="1"></td></tr><tr><td align="center" class="imagetext">We love this guy! If he only wasn't so horribly evil...</td></tr></table>Three of you emailed me little stories about a well-known (not for quality, although it's not as much of a waste of time as this place here) gaming news & commentary site which isn't going to get any further free Sierra games anymore because its virtuous Editor In Chief did something that's not really much worse than any of the other crap he's been doing for a while now. No, I'm not going to post any of them. Just ignore the idiot. He's just a poor, lonely American. You should be glad he doesn't walk around shooting people between the eyes. One of you even wrote: "Personally, I think [the site] should be put out of business." You fool. Do you think you're any better than him when you say something like that? From the AO department: people are now <a href="http://community.mystics.de/board/view/?C=1&B=1&E=0&L=994151408&P=0&O=0&M=994196960-19164">complaining</a> about not being able to find their friends (who they just started to play with) in the "newbie zone". If you know AO, you'll at least giggle now. I did my taxes today. I hate the world. |
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Topic: Please stop it, my head is hurting!
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#78 "crash" wrote... so now posts have to have some sort of merit or something? Only in the minds of the people clicking "Post." i'm sorry, when did PC become a political action board? Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. did i miss the change? If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice. your "rise up against the oppressor" song and dance and copious links to breathless, near-hysterical "news pieces" gets old. A pity you don't have a plonk button. Soon the grim end will come for us all. Anyway. It may get old at some point, but it hasn't yet for everyone. Besides, old isn't immortal. just sayin. you wanna keep doing it, keep doing it. i'm just sayin it's gettin tired. Telling someone that their argument/position/point of view is "getting tired" is also getting tired. IMHO. #74 "George Broussard" wrote... This is 2001 and everyone has a burner. Hey, bingo. Someone gave me a burner, 4x2x, fer nuttin, because they bought a faster one for an absurdly low price. The uses I could put this thing to... I am thinking of writing some scifi set in a world where one would have to have extremely restrictive licenses to own a copy of a song, even, let alone a.... COUNTERFEITING DEVICE!!!! (cue dread music) Ahem. Said that, George is right, there has to be some cd lock on yer stuff. But innovation in this area is sorely needed. The current system punishes pirates slightly and punishes honest consumers a fair bit - in some cases, though, denying a legitmate customer any access to the game - the pirate never undergoes this penalty. This state of affairs is simply unacceptable . Some of you missed the point of FT's post. Surely he knows that there are ways to get around these irritations. (And, yeah, Ebay, sure. But it isn't a limitless supply, duh. And the abandonware situation is even more distasteful to many.) But Joe Sixpack does not. And in spite of the fact that we here, by and large, are far, far more clever than Joe Sixpack - that doesn't entitle him to any less protections or conveniences as any other consumer. For comparison, and as an aside, you must see Memento, as soon as is immediately feasible. What a stunner. You must hurry, before some potzer spoils it for you. Anyway. Pay attention to the scenes where the clerk at the hotel rips him off; specifically, the look on the mark's face when he realizes he is being had. Ho hum, got me again. It isn't fair to one to take advantage of one's ignorance to get one's money. Companies that are guilty of doing this are too numerous to be linked. Until this issue is addressed, piracy will continue to flourish - it isn't better anti-copy we need, but fewer asshole-execs. Hey George, the impression I get from the message boards I read is that a lot of people are planning on stealing your game. Do you think you can comment on whether you'll have the same old thing locking your ware down, or will EVEN YOUR COPY PROTECTION!!!!! be spankingly innovating and overthetopmindblowing????? I have an idea, ten bucks, it is yours. Fiddy, if ya use it. Har. ================ I am a prototype for a much larger idiot. |
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#75 George Broussard wrote... Flamey, http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISA...086 $5.99 TA, new in box. Crisis averted. I dont' think you get it - he's already payed, why should he have to pay again? Of course, this brings up an interesting point. The license agreements with most software specifically grant you the right to install and use the software on one computer, but do not deal with the medium of transfer. Does this license extend beyond the physical media the software is distributed on? The only mention of the physical representation of the software I could find in the several agreements I examined was the right to make backup copies and use those instead. If the license grants you the right to use the software, regardless of the physical vessel it was derived from, does that mean that even if your copy is destroyed, you could demand a replacement? The only agreement I found that denied this was the one with Q3, that says that any warranties for the physical product didn't apply to normal wear and tear. Second interesting thought: The license is considered binding when you click the "Yes", or "I Agree" or whatever button, but in none of the agreements I read was any payments or obligations (other than to follow the license agreement) required or made a condition of entering into the agreement? Does that mean that simply by agreeing to the provisions to the license as written, that license then is granted to you, regardless of any other actions you may or may not have taken, such as paying? I know it sounds ridiculous, and it probably is. This issue is likely explained somewhere in the standard laws dealing with contracts and licenses - but what if it isn't? The only thing I've heard is that for a contract to be valid, some sort of exchange must take place. Well, by agreeing, you've agreed to do certain things, and not do others. Services, in other words. Could those fulfill the required exchange? Of course, to get ahold of the software without paying for it means that someone else would likely need to break the license. Is receiving this software a crime, and even if it is, can you still obtain a valid license by agreeing? What if the distributor never clicked on "I agree", or installed the software? What then obligates them not to distribute copies? -Whisp |
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I dont' think you get it - he's already payed, why should he have to pay again? Because, you know, stuff wares out. CD's, DVD's, tapes, pets, clothes, video cards, cars, toys, and games. At some point everything degrades to the point where it is no longer useful. Then you buy another one and the circle of life continues. It sure would be nice though, if Nike magically sent me out a new pair of sneakers every six months because I bought some shoes from them in 1988. |
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szcx (#82): It sure would be nice though, if Nike magically sent me out a new pair of sneakers every six months because I bought some shoes from them in 1988. Yeah. Having to actually put my shoes on my feet everyday really causes some wear and tear on them. And when I get a hole in them, fucking Nike won't even issue me a new pair. Cunts. |
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#76 Ryslin: ..about Diablo 2 exp. i love it.. Okay. Thanks. Might pick it up when I see it on the shelves here. now .. i must RECOMEND Startopia it is addictive.. and wonderful if you are the sort that loves to micromanage and sim! I'm seeing a lot of favourable comments on Startopia but also a lot of bug reports. It sounds interesting but I'm not into sims in a big way. I'll download a demo if I can find one. If that gets me addicted then clearly I'll buy it. Although now that I think about it the Majesty demo got me addicted but I wasn't prepared to fork out the full price everyone was selling it for. It still hasn't dropped I price and I feel I'll be forgetting about it before it does. |
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If Nike attached a chain to their shoes with a massive weight as an anti-theft measure, you might have an accurate comparison. Copy protection affects performance, and I've yet to hear that justified beyond the level of the "necessary evil" argument |
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Warren Marshall (#83): Yeah. Having to actually put my shoes on my feet everyday really causes some wear and tear on them. And when I get a hole in them, fucking Nike won't even issue me a new pair. Cunts. The difference between shoes, movies, music, etc, is that you can still buy the old stuff. Trying to find Final Doom and the Quake expansion packs has been an major pain in the ass that took me months. I can go buy King Kong now or an Elvis CD now. Game companies seem hell bent on making their old stuff hard to find and it's probably because there's no huge difference between it and alot of the new stuff and they don't want to sell the cheaper games. |
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Cilan (#85): Copy protection affects performance, and I've yet to hear that justified beyond the level of the "necessary evil" argument What other reason is there? It's there because people steal software. "Why is that keycode lock on that door?" "People keep walking and stealing stuff so we put it there to stop the casual guys getting in." "Isn't there another reason it's there? Is that IT?" wtf? TheToadWarrior (#86): it's probably because there's no huge difference between it and alot of the new stuff and they don't want to sell the cheaper games. Yet you keep buying it. |
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Warren Marshall (#87): TheToadWarrior (#86): it's probably because there's no huge difference between it and alot of the new stuff and they don't want to sell the cheaper games. Yet you keep buying it. Because I want the new stuff as well as the old stuff. |
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Toad, companies seem hell bent on making their old stuff hard to find and it's probably because there's no huge difference between it and alot of the new stuff and they don't want to sell the cheaper games. Because there is no market for the old games. Don't blame publishers. Blame retailers that stock THOUSANDS of cd's, movies and more, yet PC Boxes are HUGE and that means they can carry only the latest and greatest. I SOOO wish we were all in DVD boxes. Then you could sell old games like Duke 3D for $9 and still make some money - and it wouldn't take a huge amount of space. Until then - hit eBay. |
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George Broussard, Because there is no market for the old games. Don't blame publishers. Blame retailers that stock THOUSANDS of cd's, movies and more, yet PC Boxes are HUGE and that means they can carry only the latest and greatest. I SOOO wish we were all in DVD boxes. Then you could sell old games like Duke 3D for $9 and still make some money - and it wouldn't take a huge amount of space. Until then - hit eBay. I agree. First of all, not enough retail space for the bigass boxes. And "hardcore" gamers are not exactly the majority of people, or even gamers in general. The masses want the shiniest new games with fancy graphics. So that is what is currently made. So that is what is stocked. |
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George Broussard, Because there is no market for the old games. Don't blame publishers. Blame retailers that stock THOUSANDS of cd's, movies and more, yet PC Boxes are HUGE and that means they can carry only the latest and greatest. I SOOO wish we were all in DVD boxes. Then you could sell old games like Duke 3D for $9 and still make some money - and it wouldn't take a huge amount of space. Until then - hit eBay. I agree. First of all, not enough retail space for the bigass boxes. And "hardcore" gamers are not exactly the majority of people, or even gamers in general. The masses want the shiniest new games with fancy graphics. So that is what is currently made. So that is what is stocked. |
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George, Didn't the industry adopt the "GT" box standard, aka the "DVD Case" standard? Is it just being slowly implemented or what? |
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I suspect that allowing really old games to remain on the shelves would also be a major support headache. Is it really cost effective to field support calls on a $5 copy of Halloween Harry because it doesn't run under Windows 2000? Somehow, I doubt it. |
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The "necessary evil" argument splits the people who think invconveniencing the many to punish the few is justifiable with those who think that the product should be made to perform as well as possible with as little hinderance as is possible....but that wasn't the point of what I wrote. I pointed out how ridiculous your little comparison of digital media (which wears down faster because of things such as copy protection) and shoes, which have no built in theft deterrents that inconvenience the user and cause accelerated destruction. But I guess it's easier to just jump on the second thing I said (which was basically an admonition that there are reasonable arguments for copy protection), misconstrue it and then avoid the first statement. The keycode analogy has no real basis for comparison either...locks generally provide a feeling of security for the user and have no inherent drawbacks. Cd checks negatively affect the user. |
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#94 "Cilan" wrote... Cd checks negatively affect the user. Piracy negatively affects the user as well. Nevertheless the current anti-copy measures are either a joke or an intolerable nuisance, depending on whether you're a thief or a customer. Shouldn't that be reversed? ================ I am a prototype for a much larger idiot. |
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George Broussard (#89): Toad, companies seem hell bent on making their old stuff hard to find and it's probably because there's no huge difference between it and alot of the new stuff and they don't want to sell the cheaper games. Because there is no market for the old games. Don't blame publishers. Blame retailers that stock THOUSANDS of cd's, movies and more, yet PC Boxes are HUGE and that means they can carry only the latest and greatest. I SOOO wish we were all in DVD boxes. Then you could sell old games like Duke 3D for $9 and still make some money - and it wouldn't take a huge amount of space. Until then - hit eBay. That's very true, but they could be sold online at a discounted price with no support. That way you don't have to worry about helping someone getting Duke 1 running on their XP machine and for $5.00 or so, who's really gonna worry about having to download it? Activision does this as well as having Digital River handle selling boxed copies. I could have bought the Quake mission packs this way, but the link was dead and if you go to DR's main page, it's just to pimp their service to companies so I was SOL with Activision. Certainly there's enough of a market to put some games online and charge a small fee for them to people out there that want them. Abandonware sites seem popular, so the market has got to be there. |
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cd checks suck but I love cd-keys. If you don't need the CD, a key is much better as long as you don't do something stupid like Id did initially with Quake 3 and place it in one of the most commonly shared files. |
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#94 "Cilan" wrote... The keycode analogy has no real basis for comparison either...locks generally provide a feeling of security for the user and have no inherent drawbacks. Cd checks negatively affect the user. So taking a few minutes to find the damn keycode is better then a few second spent checking the CD. Also how exactly does a CD (the digital media) ware down from the check? I've got quite a few games, most of the good one have seen quite a bit of use over the years, and they still work. The ones that don't aren't fucked up because of a light being directed at them but because some one broke them, I have yet to see one simply deteriorate from normal use like a VHS or Cassette does. So being forced to put it in the drive really doesn't harm them. #96 "TheToadWarrior" wrote... That's very true, but they could be sold online at a discounted price with no support. That way you don't have to worry about helping someone getting Duke 1 running on their XP machine and for $5.00 or so, who's really gonna worry about having to download it? If you put it on a CD for free or some mag does having no support isn't a big deal, but as soon as you charge for it people expect some kind of support for the product. |
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None-1a (#98): If you put it on a CD for free or some mag does having no support isn't a big deal, but as soon as you charge for it people expect some kind of support for the product. Not if they agree that it's sold as is and you make it clear, the odds of it running can be pretty slim on new machines. It's their risk. Besides, two things I was looking for recently(Final Doom and the Quake mission packs) run just fine on new systems. Unlike newer games, the old games were written for an OS that virtually no one uses, so the user has to accept some risks when buying old software. I wouldn't be against them giving it away though either. :) |
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Just wanted to say. Welcome back George Broussard. We've all missed you and just so you feel at home: GO BACK 2 WORK AN FINISH DNF U LAZY GIMP! With love :) |
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#99 "TheToadWarrior" wrote... Not if they agree that it's sold as is and you make it clear, the odds of it running can be pretty slim on new machines. It's their risk. Then your sending support denials out to all of the people that didn't bother to read it before ploping in their CC number and downloading. Those people then of course will find the nearest message board or newsgroup and start bitching that so and so doesn't support their products and you have a PR nightmare on your hands. About the only way I see to handle it is to pass them off to a second party to distribute for some fee (simmaler to say epic classics). With any luck the company you sold the right to distripute to will be the one getting slamed with support questions. Considering it'd be their buisness to handle these games they'd probably be more equiped to take those questions as well. You'd probably still get a few questions, but you could forward them to the other company with out your own staff spending much time one the matter. It'd take a bit of work by the legal department to craft an agreement that would still give the original publisher/developer the option of useing the old game or content for promotions but it could be done (ie a we retain the right to cancel this distro contract at any time for any reason clause). |
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CD music? I've had a lot of CD's which have developed scratches and I can't play anymore. Do I whine, cry and bitch about it? No. Well, fucker, one difference of a CD player and PC is games play from harddrives, not CD, so there is no need to wear out the CD Another difference is it cost me over 150 dollars to buy TA and mission packs. And now I'm supposed to take it up the ass it fails just because you do? You sir, are a cunt. |
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Paul wrote up there somewhere: On the other hand, how many of you who pirate would walk into a store and steal the same game off the shelf? Does the assumption that you have a much higher chance of getting caught when you steal in the store affect your decision to pirate, but not shoplift? Assuming you believe in the whole victimless crime thing, and your ethics aren't of the highest-caliber in the world -- there is a distinction here. When you download warez that you would have never bought, you're not depriving anybody of any physical property, or asset, or what have you. When you walk into a store and steal a hard copy of the game, you're fucking over the store owner, who shelled out the money to buy it with the intention of selling it for a profit. |
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GO BACK 2 WORK AN FINISH DNF U LAZY GIMP! That reminds me. Hey Warren, GO BACK 2 WORK AN FINISH LODERUNNER U LAZY GIMP! :-P |
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So, the solution, George, is to buy a new copy of the game every time the thin media wears out? Perhaps some people who have never used computers might buy that, but this is the digital age. Your aguament is I have to buy games over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. And you justify this by comparing computer programs to shoes. You sirs, are the socks-with-sandals of the video game industry. |
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Yeah, fuckit, I'll say it again. I spent nearly 150 dollars buying TA and all I want to do is play it. And official word is I have to buy it again from on-line from a fucking on-line auction house to do so? Word is out, Dallas developers are thieving cunts? |
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George - "Most developers offer a cheap cd replacement" Unfortunately in this case the developer is dead, their parent company is dismembered, and their publisher has been swallowed by Infogrames. TBH I'm surprised that TA isn't available though, at least on budget re-release or in the big ol' Commander's Pack version which includes all the missions packs and stuff. I got one of those a couple of years ago for about £20. As for CD checks, if I play a game enough and find the CD check annoying I'll usually find a hack to get rid of the check. I've got a legal copy of the game, so I don't see a problem with fiddling it so that I don't actually need to dig through my cupboard full of games and find the right disc every time I want to play. I appreciate that they are needed though, as CD burners are way too common these days. Another good reason for publishers to switch to DVD-Roms? Whisp - "I've never tried to copy a commercial tape, but I took comfort in the fact that if I needed to, I could" Get a cheap TV card for your PC and a decent sized hard drive. Problem solved. :) Quicken - "I'm seeing a lot of favourable comments on Startopia but also a lot of bug reports" There's a few annoying little things, like I'm stuck on a mission at the moment which doesn't seem to be ending because I've taken over the entire pleasure deck (wahey!) and reached solid bulkheads at each end of my territory on the other two decks. Now I've got to wait for the enemy to try busting into my part of the station to get anywhere, and they're too busy squabbling with each other and too poor to achieve anything now that their tourist income is gone. In one game I finally managed to bust into the last enemy segments to discover their entire population dead - skeletons scattered all over the floors - because I'd wiped out their power supply, all their buildings had gone offline, and they'd starved to death. Sick, but fun. :) Glock - "Didn't the industry adopt the "GT" box standard, aka the "DVD Case" standard? Is it just being slowly implemented or what?" They did in Europe last year - not sure about America. Certainly most PC games over here are now released in DVD cases. |
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As for CD checks, if I play a game enough and find the CD check annoying I'll usually find a hack to get rid of the check. CD hacks are very little use when they make the program less stable and you want to play on-line. Few developers seem to realise that (or give a flying fuck, once they have your cash). |
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American Air Force didn't care if it put a zit in the face of the main in the moon. |
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Thinking... |
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Flamethrower - "CD hacks are very little use when they make the program less stable and you want to play on-line" Never had that problem. :) |
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I'm of the opinion that Evil's post, while unclearly worded, was a) not an endorsement of piracy and b) not the real reason why Sierra "pulled support". As I've posted in the EvilAvatar.com forums, I won't debate the first point. It is vague language which could -- yes could -- be interpreted by some as a pro-piracy statement rather than a "finding out which games suck without having to fork over your money" devil-may-care comment. *shrug* As for the second, a glance at Sierra's e-mail to Evil Avatar (which you can find quoted in part -- as well as links to the full version -- here) is a good indicator of why they really got riled up: Evil had a "Press Beta" of Arcanum given to him, and after playing it he summarized it as "it sucks". Yes, both parties have been digging holes in the debate. But one wonders: if a game is not "ready for Prime Time"....why the fuck are you giving out previews to people with an audience? I dunno. I accept Evil Avatar for who he is, and take his comments with a grain of salt. His is one of three major gaming news stops I make daily: Blue's News if I want "just the facts", Evil Avatar if I want some opinion with the facts, and Voodoo Extreme (if for no other reason than I can find out which Derek Smart-haters have been banned from their forums). |
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Cilan (#94): The keycode analogy has no real basis for comparison either...locks generally provide a feeling of security for the user and have no inherent drawbacks. Cd checks negatively affect the user. People get hard ons picking apart analagies around here, but you get my point, yes? TheToadWarrior (#96): Abandonware sites seem popular, so the market has got to be there. Abandonware is popular because it's free. :) I suspect that many of those downloading abandonware wouldn't pay for the same software. BTW, if you're interested in old Epic games ... www.epicclassics.com None-1a (#101): Then your sending support denials out to all of the people that didn't bother to read it before ploping in their CC number and downloading. Those people then of course will find the nearest message board or newsgroup and start bitching that so and so doesn't support their products and you have a PR nightmare on your hands. Precisely. It could be in huge flashing bolded text on every page and many people would still miss it. Flamethrower (#102): Well, fucker, one difference of a CD player and PC is games play from harddrives, not CD, so there is no need to wear out the CD Oh but there is. You just don't agree with it. You sir, are a cunt. I guess I'll go fuck myself then! Woot! AnalFissure (#103): When you download warez that you would have never bought, But downloading a game expresses some interest on your part. Why would you download a game you have absolutely no interest in? Sure, there are people who HAVE to have every single game in existence in their collection, but I'd be willing to say the majority of people who download wares have at least some interest in what they're downloading ... and therefore represent potential sales. Unfortunately once they download the full game ... they have it. What's to motivate them to go to the store and buy it now? Flamethrower (#105): So, the solution, George, is to buy a new copy of the game every time the thin media wears out? Perhaps some people who have never used computers might buy that, but this is the digital age. Name another industry that replaces your media when it goes bad. |
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>>>Adam Kahn, Glock, George Broussard and everyone else giving it to evilavatar.com You have my sincerest gratitude for exposing Phil for what she is: A wannabe. Yep, That's right. Phil wants to 'cool' for stating an opinion that's 'outrageous' and 'over the top' and shit. Guess what, Phil? This isn't about 'what you think'---This is business. If think these PR guys and Game companies are about being your 'friend' ---I strongly suggest you reconsider a new business prospect. I hear McDonald's is hiring---I'll e-mail you a electronic application if you'd like... =) >>>FlameThrower Say, How come you don't post in the EA forums anymore? "I have the Senate bogged down in proceedures. They have NO choice BUT to accept your control of the system." --Darth Sidious The Phantom Menace Th3 Incr3dibl3, Und3niabl3, UN-BANNABL3 Mal3 Battl3-Dwarf |
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Supreme Chancellor Palpatine (#114): Th3 Incr3dibl3, Und3niabl3, UN-BANNABL3 Mal3 Battl3-Dwarf Morn doesn't ban anyone on this site ... why do you constantly change your nick? |
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Quote: [Morn doesn't ban anyone on this site ... why do you constantly change your nick?] Warren, chill-l-l-l...You're cramping my style. :) That nick is what you _didn't_ see whenever I post at the EA forums. The message is indirectly aim at Phil. I respect what you do in the video game business but please don't read too much into my identity. :) The Incredible Undeniable UN-BANNABLE Male Battle-Dwarf |
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#111 "Gestalt" wrote... Never had that problem. :) Well, it's that screwed-up Wheel of Time installation that's causing all his computer instabilities... |
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#109 "Flamethrower" wrote... American Air Force didn't care if it put a zit in the face of the main in the moon. British Women have less sex than other European women. |
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If you wore out a cd by putting it in and out of the drive, you need a drive that doesn't have the patented SandPaper Loading Mechanism. Evil will calm down once he gets his x-box + spidey game. |
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Quote: [Evil will calm down once he gets his x-box + spidey game.] I have a _LOT_riding on X-BOX's inevitable failure. The stakes are 'mad' high. As far a evilavatar.com? Fuck a evilavatar.com. A Arizona internet nerd is in _NO_ WAY_ anything like a star of stage, screen & radio New York Howard Stern. Remember that, Phil when you TRY to imitate him. :) The Incredible, Undeniable, UN-BANNABLE Male Battle-Dwarf |
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EXTREME PINBALL! *Randy Savage breaks through a brick wall and battles a non-extreme pinball machine to the death with his teeth* |
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Hey, I heard that Mike David Chapman finally wore out his old copy of Catcher in the Rye, and he's fucking pissed that he has to buy a new one. His vhs copy of Taxi Driver has seen better days, as well. |
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Yeah, I meant Mark David Chapman. need coffee |
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AnalFissure: When you steal property rights, it's never victimless. If you use the standard you put down, everyone could steal anything that could be reproduced. Why not end plagarism too? - Paul |
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Name another industry that replaces your media when it goes bad. My copy of Unreal Tournament is selling drugs to children. Could I get a replacement? |
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Something I don't understand. Why do warez monkeys try to get every game that comes out... If you have no interest in playing it, why bother? All it will do is take up space, either physically (on some form of medium), or electronically. What's the purpose? Funk. |
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Warren Marshall (#113): TheToadWarrior (#96): Abandonware sites seem popular, so the market has got to be there. Abandonware is popular because it's free. :) I suspect that many of those downloading abandonware wouldn't pay for the same software. BTW, if you're interested in old Epic games ... www.epicclassics.com True, but can you buy Ninja Gaiden for the PC? Free is the only solution. I dunno about buying Epic's classics, I don't want my dog to feel abandoned. ;) |
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None-1a, that's their fault. If they can't read, they're an idiot and no one really cares if they got fucked. :) |
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They get every game out because they're "collectors", not "gameplayers". The larger your "collection", the larger your peni... err something like that. It is like those fruits who collect plates or spoons, they never actually eat with them. |
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