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Please stop it, my head is hurting!
July 4th 2001, 00:47 CEST by Morn <table align="right" border="0" cellspacing="2" cellpadding="0" width="199"><tr><td><img src="/images/misc/shaminos_friend.jpg" width="197" height="213" border="1"></td></tr><tr><td align="center" class="imagetext">We love this guy! If he only wasn't so horribly evil...</td></tr></table>Three of you emailed me little stories about a well-known (not for quality, although it's not as much of a waste of time as this place here) gaming news & commentary site which isn't going to get any further free Sierra games anymore because its virtuous Editor In Chief did something that's not really much worse than any of the other crap he's been doing for a while now. No, I'm not going to post any of them. Just ignore the idiot. He's just a poor, lonely American. You should be glad he doesn't walk around shooting people between the eyes. One of you even wrote: "Personally, I think [the site] should be put out of business." You fool. Do you think you're any better than him when you say something like that? From the AO department: people are now <a href="http://community.mystics.de/board/view/?C=1&B=1&E=0&L=994151408&P=0&O=0&M=994196960-19164">complaining</a> about not being able to find their friends (who they just started to play with) in the "newbie zone". If you know AO, you'll at least giggle now. I did my taxes today. I hate the world. |
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Topic: Please stop it, my head is hurting!
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Congratulations on flaamey discovering the "People sell stuff and then sell it again when it wears out" racket. I wish they had told me that about the carrot. THAT was embarrasing. The keyword here is "duh". That's spelled M-O-O-N |
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I do look after my CDs. The problem is I am required to have them in 100% of playing time when it is not a technical requirement. To play a music CD the CD must be in. Else it is a trivial matter to back it up, to MP3, CD, tape, whatever. All I did was play Total Annihilation online. All I want to do is play Total Annihilation online. There are people online who want to play Total Annihilation with me. I spent the thick end of 200 dollars to play Total Annihilation online. I'm sorry, so very very sorry, that paying (a hell of a lot of money) for a game and then - *gasp* - playing it is seemingly such a un-fucking-reasonable request to make. In the future I shall be more reasonable by sending money directly to development companies and snapping a blank CD here at my leisure in order to achive the same results. |
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Flamethrower (#170): I do look after my CDs. The problem is I am required to have them in 100% of playing time when it is not a technical requirement. Sorry sir, you're not. Anyone who actually takes the best care of their CDs shouldn't be bitching about them wearing out so quickly as you are. As has been stated before, your problem lies either with you or some faulty hardware scratching your CDs up, because it's certainly not the developers' fault you can't take care of a CD properly. -- Dethstryk |
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As has been stated before, your problem lies either with you or some faulty hardware scratching your CDs up, because it's certainly not the developers' fault you can't take care of a CD properly. You are not a liar, you are merely stupid. For the record, I own a Creative Labs drive, and I do not get many CDs fucked at all. Copy protection works differently to playing a data CD and to playing a music CD. If you knew anything about programming you'd know this. What copy protection does is spend a long time grinding away at very small portions of your CD. Instead of spreading the load over the whole CD it concentrates on one spot. This wears out that spot, and one spot of failure is enought to fuck the whole CD. To continue Warrens liar anology to the far cheaper music CDs, if you scratch a music track that one track fails. And it is interesting to note that I have scrated *none* of the music tracks on my TA CD. I have scratched nothing. The copy-protection exessively targets one tiny portion of the CD, and it makes a for disproportionately and unecessarily fast wear. CD-wearout is becomming more and more and more common in the TA community. Of course -- typical developer fanboy post -- blame the user, his hardware, whatever, just not the developer. Fanboy. It's what makes you stupid, not a liar. PS. The other day a friend who I sold my 1993 Amiga to phoned me up. He had a problem with Devpac2. His problem was "how to use". You see, those disks installed to the HD. The floppies are still fine because they have been hardly used. And the HD is still working. Compare and contrast to "advanced" technology. Compare and contrast too how game developers do NOT care if gamers are ripped off of hundred of dollars from THEIR copy-protection fucking up ... against how they squirm and bitch and hate if they think they lost seven dollars fifty from a boxed sale. Fucking liar thieving racketeering cunts. I'm spending 25 guilders a fortnight and getting my massive bonus CD of pirated games. Never again will I be ripped the fuck off. |
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Because you deserve it I'll rip you a second one on this. Sorry sir, you're not. Anyone who actually takes the best care of their CDs shouldn't be bitching about them wearing out so quickly as you are. And how "quickly" is that? FYI, this game is younger than Quake, but not by much. As has been stated before, your problem lies either with you or some faulty hardware scratching your CDs up Stated and proven that the problem with my TA CD is me or my faulty hardware? Stated by who? People who dislike me? Besides, me and all the other TA players who are having the same probelms about now, how come? Because it's certainly not a developers' fault ... Dear fanboy, you forgot to finish your sentance with the word "evar". |
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The game hasn't stopped working, the media has. And the developers deliberately link the media to the game. And the develoeprs deliberately concentrate 'grind routines' on one media spot. And break the media, break the game. Vary clevar. |
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Flamethrower (#172): CD-wearout is becomming more and more and more common in the TA community. Total Annihilation community, huh? Flamethrower (#173): And how "quickly" is that? FYI, this game is younger than Quake, but not by much. I know this, and that's why I think it's pretty "quickly". I have games and apps that are older than Total Annihilation and they work perfectly. Stated and proven that the problem with my TA CD is me or my faulty hardware? Stated by who? People who dislike me? Besides, me and all the other TA players who are having the same probelms about now, how come? I love how you concentrate on Total Annihilation, but never really talk about any other CD giving you a problem due to developers intentionally "grinding" an area of the CD to make it unusable. Dear fanboy, you forgot to finish your sentance with the word "evar". I'm a fanboy? TA this, TA that... Flamethrower (#174): The game hasn't stopped working, the media has. And the developers deliberately link the media to the game. I hope they deliberately link the media to the game. How else am I going to install the bloody thing? I realize what your point is here, but still... And the develoeprs deliberately concentrate 'grind routines' on one media spot. And break the media, break the game. Vary clevar. You just love the conspiracy theories don't you? If something isn't going right for you, someone's doing it purposely, uh huh. I can just picture those "evil developers" sitting in their offices adding in the code to "deliberately concentrate 'grind routines'" on their finished product, fixing to be shipped. Give me a break. -- Dethstryk |
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"CDs wear out" Uh. You do know how a CD-Drive works, right? Other than the spindle, there isn't any contact. Unless you've got some "blast-o-laser" inside your drive. I have never had a CD go "bad" from normal use. Sure, I've done some stupid fucking things (dropping, etc..) but never to the point of a CD going to hell. But I guess its moot - since I make backups of all my data in the unlikely event it does go to shit. My point is -- you have to be "Marty Meathook" to mess up a CD through normal use. Some people just shouldn't try to pretend they know how to keep their computer gear in order. Oh, and perhaps this link on CD drives is in order. Blah. blah. blah. Desiato |
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#158 "Warren Marshall" wrote... Of course not. Don't let something silly like "the law" get in your way. Besides, the world owes you. Download away! Well, wtf, how many farmers the world over, thank the land and the crops for providing and sustaining life? All this "world owes you" shit, give it a rest. The trouble with the abandonware situation is that there is no distinction currently possible between "hey I looooove this game I gotta have it and can't buy it" and "fuck yoooooooou I'm not paying for jack." That needs to be addressed. Note, the law in this area is obsolete. I agree with you, Warren, stealing is wrong. But consider the case of a shitheel publisher who buys up, say, a past catalog of work, then reams the company for profits and leaves it all in the shitter. What happens to all those games? All that creation? What, we just lump it in with thievery and disgrace? In the case (rare?) of the developer or publisher who owns the rights and doesn't want more distribution ("Hey! You! Fucker! No, you can't buy our old stuff anymore!" I can not judge), yes, protection from theft, absolutely. Without a workable legal framework, though, get serious. And it is, as pointed out, easily duplicated at virtually no cost. The current laws don't serve anyone's interest except the thieves. The prevalence of cd-check tech is a reflection of this: the pirates wave their fingers at the lock at move on, the honest consumer has to deal with additional irritation. That's the point that FT harps on, inarticulately or no. And I agree with that point. No one is happy with the way things are except the thieves. Thus, change the situation. Uhm, duh? #171 "Dethstryk" wrote... As has been stated before, your problem lies either with you or some faulty hardware scratching your CDs up, because it's certainly not the developers' fault you can't take care of a CD properly. It isn't like you can just do everything "properly" and then you're 100% free from accidents. Each time you have to manipulate the disc, there is a risk of damage and/or destruction. Whether you take care of them or not, they are still remarkably fragile in some ways, especially when keyed to complex copy protection. The thing is, that shit happens. There ought to be protections built into the system for honest consumers, as much as possible, because otherwise you're just slowly driving people away from paying and towards getting it for free, if it is more of a hassle to pay. Look at music and .mp3: the record publishers fucked everyone over for years, and look at all the loyalty they have from the consuming public now. ================ I am a prototype for a much larger idiot. |
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Total Annihilation community, huh? Didn't you know? It's thriving, new programs and mods appearing all the time. The main sites don't just have updates every day, they have NEWS ever day! It's fucking fabulous. Still. And it's the only RTS worht playing, by far far far far far far far far far. And I don't care I'm a fan of it. I paid to be so. You do know how a CD-Drive works, right? Other than the spindle, there isn't any contact. No? Go buy a Creative Labs drive. Or anyone elses. You do know when you place them in the drive they are flat on a tray. That is CONTACT isn't it? And that copy protection routines oftem stop, start, stop, start, stop, start contact... the CD falls from the air cusion to the tray. And up. And down. And grind. And repeat for three minutes. This is why PC-CDROMs wear out more than constantly-played audio CDs. I hope they deliberately link the media to the game. How else am I going to install the bloody thing? Enjoy your retardation. The game and the media are not linked and do not need to be. The installation needs to be linked to the media. The game needs to be linked to the installed destination. Or perhaps you enjoy the "installer game". I perfer the shit that comes somewhat after that. You know. The "game". That data and code thing that's on the blisteringly-fast harddrive. Asking for a CD-ROM at that point is bad for the CD, and unncessary. Unless you want to protect your copyright. And on the grounds that the mechanisim alone has fucked this person enough off to pirate all of their future titles on moral principles then I think it's fair to state, in this case at least, the entire concept of copy-protection has not only failed the consumer, it's failed the developer too. Given how many hours I played TA online could have installed it hundreds of thousands of times for the same wear and tear as I got from just playing it. That would last me approximately fifty lifetimes, not a couple of years. But no sense crying about money spilt down developers deep and unforgiving pockets. The only language they understand or care about these day is money. Fine. Becuase the quality of their media are so low I shall no longer buy their media. Their games I shall continue to seek out and keep. |
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Dethstryk - "I'm a fanboy? TA this, TA that..." Woah there! Slag off Flamethrower all you like, but don't lay a finger on TA. ;) It's still arguably the greatest multiplayer RTS of all time, and on the rare occasions when I manage to get to a LAN party I invariably spend as much time playing TA as I do playing UT, Q3 or CS. It's a lot of fun, even if it is getting a bit long in the tooth. |
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It was coded *well*. It was made for low-res windows but accepts any resolution. The effect is at 800x or 1024x it looks fabulous even today. There's also an unofficial conversion going on putting all the TA units into TA:Kingdoms. We'll see if it happens ... but many of the other TA conversions have actually succeeded and gone ahead. Gestalt -- get Uberhack and Bugfix, both linked at TAUniverse.com. They're amazing. |
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Flamey in #178: Becuase the quality of their media are so low I shall no longer buy their media. Their games I shall continue to seek out and keep. Just out of curiosity, does this mean that you would send the developer a payment for the game if you can, one way or another, download it (and run it w/o any CDs in the drive of course 8)? If what we're discussing is if copy protection is a pain in the ass for the consumer more than the pirate then I say that it's the consumer that gets screwed. I 100% think that pirating needs to be countered and fought but I still await a way to do it that doesn't involve getting the consumer stuck between a rock and a hard place. |
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Just out of curiosity, does this mean that you would send the developer a payment for the game if you can, one way or another, download it (and run it w/o any CDs in the drive of course 8)? I've been buying and paying for games my whole life, pre-teen, teen, adult. I believe as a fundamental principle developers (of all types of software) deserve commerical support for their efforts. I've supported numerous shareware developers. And when someone has BROUGHT round a pirate game for me (I don't ask) I either buy the game or ditch the copy. I did this to Motorhead. Didn't NEED to buy the game, a mate brought round a copy for me. Bought it anyway. And you know what? I'm so fucked off right now, that I can't play the game I'm addicted to for no other reason than developers don't care their digial anticrack routines fuck the fragile media they come on I've decided to protest. Developers are pissed off they get ripped off. They don't get it why legit consumers get pissed when the same shit happens to them. Well, fuck it. I play games and I used to give a lot of money to do so. My turning to exclusively pirated sources of games will hurt the game industry more than it hurts me. In fact, I can only win by this. Never again will I buy a dud game. Never again will I suffer copy protection originated woes. It feels bad to have to do, but it feels worse to see your games wear out. Fuck it. Fuck it sideways. |
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Flamethrower There is some logical thinking... TA made you spend 200.00 on cd's in order play it. I won't argue the fact that the cd protection as you described is the cause. I don't believe that it's a conspiracy by the developers, but for the sake of argument, lets say that the TA developers are all pompus money grubbers who are only focused on screwing the people who paid legit money in the first place. Ok, lets see now... So the TA people are bad, and now you say this: Well, fuck it. I play games and I used to give a lot of money to do so. My turning to exclusively pirated sources of games will hurt the game industry more than it hurts me. In fact, I can only win by this. Never again will I buy a dud game. Never again will I suffer copy protection originated woes. Yes, there you go! More generalization and assumption that the entire gaming industry is against you! Pirate them all, kill the industry just because you've had ONE bad experience with (count them) ONE company. I'm sure you'll pull another example out your ass, but only after the fact that you've been called on the grounds that you only had one to begin with. If you truly had multiple examples, you would have used them from the start. Serious question: When you went to purchase a new cd.. Did you contact the publishers and developers about the problem? Write a letter to them? From some of your statements, it seemed like you did.. If that's so, what did they say? |
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I hate to repeat myself but I do it because I find the topic interesting; would you pay the developer for the game? 8) I assume from your answer that you would but I prefer not to assume things. This question stands for the rest of you as well. If you could download a full version of a game, new or old, and then pay the developer directly, would you do it? You wouldn't pay full price for the game but you wouldn't get a manual or any official support though. |
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Go ahead. Justify theft in whatever way makes you feel better. "I'm pirating games from now on because I'm taking a stand". Sure. BTW, the no-cd cracks at Megagames work wonders for the enlightened. I haven't seen my legitimate Q3, UT, NOLF, or Half Life CDs in months. |
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TA is the shit. I know we've had discussions before on expounding how great the game is but goddamn, it is a masterpiece. Anyone who doesn't have it, go out and buy it in the bargain bin at BB or CompUSA. You can probably get one for < $5. I don't think Cavedog really were out to fuck the consumer with their copy protection however. It was more likely a mere oversight on their part. It was their make-or-break game, and likely the very last thing on their minds was long term reliability of their CDs. A conversion to the TA:K engine is something I've always hoped would happen. Whatever happened to the OpenGl TA project? The engine looked functional and it looked like a few people picked up on the development of it a while back but I haven't heard anything since. |
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#186 by diseased TA is the shit. Allow me: TA is the shit. It sucks that the TA franchise was never fleshed out a little more. I would love to see an updated hardware whore GF3 version of TA. Imagine the possibilities of per-pixel lighting in a true 3d RTS: night battles, where the terrain is basically black, and you have to rely on radar for long distance, spotlight units for close range fighting; when ordnance flies across the screen, all sorts of red and white flashes and reflections on the metal of the buildings; realtime shadows cast from any light source... |
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Allow me: TA is the shit. It sucks that the TA franchise was never fleshed out a little more. I would love to see an updated hardware whore GF3 version of TA. Imagine the possibilities of per-pixel lighting in a true 3d RTS: night battles, where the terrain is basically black, and you have to rely on radar for long distance, spotlight units for close range fighting; when ordnance flies across the screen, all sorts of red and white flashes and reflections on the metal of the buildings; realtime shadows cast from any light source... It's thinking about stuff like this that really tempts me into game development. Then I realize how much I hate programming. |
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#187 "Jeremy Witt" wrote... Allow me: TA is the shit. It sucks that the TA franchise was never fleshed out a little more. I would love to see an updated hardware whore GF3 version of TA. Imagine the possibilities of per-pixel lighting in a true 3d RTS: night battles, where the terrain is basically black, and you have to rely on radar for long distance, spotlight units for close range fighting; when ordnance flies across the screen, all sorts of red and white flashes and reflections on the metal of the buildings; realtime shadows cast from any light source... Well, Chris Taylor has said his next game will be an RTS game. If Dungeon Siege sells as well as I think it will, Gas Powered Games ought to have enough cash to buy the TA license... |
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Flamethrower (#172): What copy protection does is spend a long time grinding away at very small portions of your CD. Instead of spreading the load over the whole CD it concentrates on one spot. This wears out that spot, and one spot of failure is enought to fuck the whole CD. Dude, it's a beam of light. It ain't wearing out shit. CD-wearout is becomming more and more and more common in the TA community. *gasp* You mean ... as things get older, they wear out!? MY GOD!! Fucking liar thieving racketeering cunts. I'm spending 25 guilders a fortnight and getting my massive bonus CD of pirated games. Never again will I be ripped the fuck off. Hahaha ... "I don't like my CD's wearing out because of CD copy protection. I'm going to warez my games to show my protest." Can anyone see what's wrong with this picture? LOL Jafd2k (#177): Well, wtf, how many farmers the world over, thank the land and the crops for providing and sustaining life? All this "world owes you" shit, give it a rest. What? Note, the law in this area is obsolete. Obsolete or not, it exists. It doesn't go away because people close their eyes and wish really hard. The current laws don't serve anyone's interest except the thieves. The prevalence of cd-check tech is a reflection of this: the pirates wave their fingers at the lock at move on, the honest consumer has to deal with additional irritation. Well, I've said this about a thousand times, but nobody seems to hear me ... Pirates aren't who the protection stops. OK? With me? Pirates are not who the protection stops. You can't stop them ... nobody is trying. It stops the casual user, Joe Sixpack, who just bought a computer and hey look, it came with a CD burner. "Look Jim, I got this neat game ... let me make you a copy". THAT'S who it stops. That's the threat. Flamethrower (#182): Well, fuck it. I play games and I used to give a lot of money to do so. My turning to exclusively pirated sources of games will hurt the game industry more than it hurts me. In fact, I can only win by this. Never again will I buy a dud game. Never again will I suffer copy protection originated woes. It feels bad to have to do, but it feels worse to see your games wear out. Actually, this is good for everyone. By no longer paying for games, you remove any right you may have had to bitch about them. Bye. :) |
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Warren works at Epic, not 3DR and who needs a life when you have a 24 inch flatscreen monitor and access to a corporate OC3 ? /me throws a copy of Wheel of Time at Warren, get a haircut ya corporate shill ;) TA was a lot of fun when it came out, would probably still have it if I hadnt got UTTERLY bored of the whole fanboy mess behind it and the 9000000000000000000000.75 new units that came out which were variants of the original 78 per side. Personally, I prefered Warzone 2100 to TA and still do _much_ more fun and it had proper 3d mapping / los rather than cheating the way TA does (to a degree). just a shame pumpkin studios died off because people wouldnt buy the game. Ds |
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*sighs* Ill make this simple like. You hit the eject button, the tray comes out, you set your cd in the tray and either push to start it closing or hit the button (what youre supposed to do). The Tray closes, moving the cd you placed in the drive over the spindle. The tray closes fully tripping the retention lever on the spindle which lifts up THROUGHT the hole in the middle of the cd. The spindle detects it has a cd mounted (or has been triggered by the tray action) and begins to spin up, (the rising whir note you hear) up to the required rpm rate. Get this, the only part of the cd TOUCHING anything as it rotates is the clear bit in the middle where it rests on the spindle. When you hit the button to open the drive again, the spindle decelerates the disk and sets it down on the tray as it ejects. Cheap nasty Cdroms, like for example a creative cd rom wont have finished spinning down fully and will often flip a cd out still turning slightly. You may also have a misaligned spindle that isnt perfectly level (the laser can compensate its read tho) that brushes the casing. Indeed you may have dirt/ dust /sand/ plastic / solder fragments inside the cdrom that are coming into contact with the cd platter. Generally I tend to buy Pioneer slot load cdroms, if I cant get those I`ll settle for Plextor, Kenwood (those can have protection read problems due to the multibeam lasers) or finally LiteOn. Every single Creative CDrom or DvdRom that I have ever had the (mis?)fortune to come across has been a loud whining, rattling, cpu hogging pain in the ass to deal with. Flamey, your CL drive fucked up the TA cd. Ds |
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#191 "Darkseid-D" wrote... Personally, I prefered Warzone 2100 to TA and still do _much_ more fun and it had proper 3d mapping / los rather than cheating the way TA does (to a degree). just a shame pumpkin studios died off because people wouldnt buy the game. For what it's worth, your recommendation of this game in a prior thread made me go out and buy a copy. Now, if I can just find the time to play it... |
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This reminds me, has anyone played Kohan? I loved the demo and keep gravitating towards the box when I'm in the store. From what I'm hearing online, _that_ is the best RTS ever. New champ. Do you people buy new games or are we all set in our ways now? I feel like an old man when I'm in the stores, nothing impresses me. Ever get that feeling? I used to blame games for being too derivative, but now I'm not so sure it's them. |
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Kohan is excellent. Very streamlined interface and gameplay. You focus more on fighting and tactics than worrying about harvesting resources, which is a nice change. The graphics aren't stellar, but they're quite nice. I heartily recommend it. |
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So what got you banned from EvilAvatar.com, Flamey? |
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#172 "Flamethrower" wrote... What copy protection does is spend a long time grinding away at very small portions of your CD. Instead of spreading the load over the whole CD it concentrates on one spot. This wears out that spot, and one spot of failure is enought to fuck the whole CD. You made the mistake of buying the creative super hot laser drive didn't you. #178 "Flamethrower" wrote... And that copy protection routines oftem stop, start, stop, start, stop, start contact... the CD falls from the air cusion to the tray. And up. And down. And grind. And repeat for three minutes. Air cusion? WTF. The spindle raises up and lifts the CD off of the tray. #192 "Darkseid-D" wrote... Every single Creative CDrom or DvdRom that I have ever had the (mis?)fortune to come across has been a loud whining, rattling, cpu hogging pain in the ass to deal with. No problems here and I've been using the thing since it was new. The only thing I've ever had a problem is was those damn buisness card CDs, then again not like any one them is ever worth the effort anyway. |
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You guys know this is the second time this year we had an almost entire thread talking about Total Annihilation? A great game through and through, it made me glad I didn't waste my time on Orcs In Space, oops I mean StarCraft. I'd kill for a game that used semi-modern day military units with similar orders-setting and waypoints. I haven't seen a game yet that lets you practically automate everything once you figure out a few commands. The Core Contingancy expansion was great as well, one of the few expansion packs worth buying. I may have to dig out my old cds. Anyone know of a good dungeon crawl/arcadeish type rpg like Darkstone? I played Diablo 2 after playing the friggin PSX version of Darkstone and just couldn't stand the horrible graphics on my 21 inch monitor, and am loathe to buy both D2 and the expansion just for 1 more resolution, and not even a very high one at that. Maybe I'll just wait for Dungeon Siege. Now go play Cosmic Rift punks. --jmc ~no one gets out of her alive~ |
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And that copy protection routines oftem stop, start, stop, start, stop, start contact... the CD falls from the air cusion to the tray. And up. And down. And grind. And repeat for three minutes. Nada. If your Creative CD-ROM is doing that, it's defective. In fact, with nearly all CD-ROM/DVD-ROM's, or CD-RW drives that are sold today make the CD stay in the spindle away from the tray until until you eject. Dump the shit Creative CD-ROM drive, and get a TDK. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that Creative makes shitty CD-ROM'S. TDK's are actually Plextor's, but their customer service is a lot better, and since TDK's are in fact Plextors, they are really good quality CD burners. Stay away from HP as well. Oh yeah...GET A FREAKING TDK! :) |
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plextor = teh win especially their 20x burners :) Ds |
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didn't waste my time on Orcs In Space, oops I mean StarCraft StarCraft, oops I mean Warhammer 40,000 :-) |
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#190 "Warren Marshall" wrote... It stops the casual user, Joe Sixpack, who just bought a computer and hey look, it came with a CD burner. "Look Jim, I got this neat game ... let me make you a copy". THAT'S who it stops. That's the threat. But is it really all that great a threat? Were is the research that says it is? This has always been an interesting theory to me. I've done computer support. Computers are so complicated, that typical Joe user has no idea how to do anything other than turn it on and run an e-mail program. Tell him to copy a CD? Forget it... (Shoot, most people that I've seen don't even know how to hook up two VCR's to copy to each other.) It's my theory that anybody who can operate a CD burner probably also knows how to get on the web and download the latest no-cd crack for a game. I would like to see some kind of research which shows if copy protection actually does prevent a massive amount of CD's from being copied. |
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Flamey has new superior tech in his ancient computer! Air suspension CDROM drives! |
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Dude, it's a beam of light. It ain't wearing out shit. Having to take it in and out of the case, and the cd drive, is a risk of damage every time. You might drop it. You might scratch it, you might break it, whatever. I am not saying that such risks are unnacceptable, or the responsibility of the dev/pub to deal with the consequences of; what I am saying is that the technology does exist to dramatically minimize these risks, and this technology is not available to honest consumers, for the most part. A better solution is called for. Obsolete or not, it exists. It doesn't go away because people close their eyes and wish really hard. No, it goes away when people look around at a current situation and take action to improve it. Laws are created to serve and protect honest people. In this case, honest people are getting the shaft. One could say that as long as theives exist, honest people will always get the shaft, but I think the question of degree is open for negotiation. It stops the casual user, Joe Sixpack, who just bought a computer and hey look, it came with a CD burner. "Look Jim, I got this neat game ... let me make you a copy". THAT'S who it stops. That's the threat. As soon as Joe Compaq steals a copy, he becomes a pirate, in my vernacular. I get your point though- but it looks like you don't get mine. I agree with you, piracy, casual and otherwise, needs to be addressed via copy-protection. If the casual thief is not stopped, an unacceptable number of sales are lost. So, implement a system that stops casual thievery, fine. But a responsibility exists to make that system as transparent to the honest customer as possible. "Yeah sorry you can't play that game you paid for, piracy sucks, don't it?" That's an unacceptable response (and an inevitable conclusion, in most real-world cases), not because it is not "fair" enough (it is, in my view), but because technology exists to surpass the problem. All this blah blah about protecting intellectual property rights... yes, important. But blah blah about protecting individual consumer rights is equally important, if not more so. I very much feel that steps must be taken to reduce piracy (casual and otherwise) as much as possible. What I don't feel is that requiring the CD to be in the drive to play the game is at all called for, in this day and age. At all. Find another way. Meanwhile, take steps and create support paths to assist honest customers who somehow, for whatever reason or another, are being "inconvenienced." It is important for that to happen, because if the dev/pub doesn't do it, the users will do it themselves. You can pull that "it wears out, buy a new one, fucker!" schtick when you're dealing with cars, or shoes, or ice cream; with digital media, different rules apply. The world has moved on. Move with it, or just fucking die. Anyone with half a brain can tell you that Creative makes shitty CD-ROM'S Creative makes shitty everything. (note: my CrapSpy install is starting to attribute wrong post authors in Quote'N'Go. FYI. Proofread or cause a stir... :) ================ I am a prototype for a much larger idiot. |
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there are membranes you can put over the underside of cdroms that protect against dings n scratches and dont prevent the disk being read. oh and you can also polish out some scratches with a mild abrasive like say .. brasso. works for me. Ds |
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Do you guys against CD checks have any suggestions for alternatives? Would you accept an activation style setup where if you don't or can't activate over the internet it requires the CD, but if you have activated your installation using the CD key, you don't need the CD to play the game any more. This of course has the typical gripes about what happens if you reinstall, etc etc, but you can always fall back to using the CD check. |
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People might suggest keys.... but what about games that require the key and the cd to play... Examples, Half Life, Quake3a (originally), Diablo2, StarCraft (and Broodwars). However, Half Life you could start a lan server and play multiplayer without the cd.. the others its keep the cd and have a key.... Q3a finally had the cd check removed in a recent patch HL`s cd requirement was for single player only, which is fair enough, but to require a key AND a cd for online play .. c`mon.... Ds |
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#206 "Gabe" wrote... Do you guys against CD checks have any suggestions for alternatives? I'd be content with a single player game that forces me to run an app to ping the publisher's server with a digital signature every five minutes. (Especially since any game without any online multiplayer is a game without value, anyway.) I'm on cable, so what the hell? Sure that wouldn't have been an option even two years ago, but, it isn't. There just needs to be more options. I'm happy to be required to give blood every month, for pity's sake. Just don't ask me for a fair chunk of change on day one (and then have to beta test your release, right?) and then expect me to just sidle up on my ass four years later and buy another copy, just because the first one "wore out." Fuck that. What, the corners of the ones and zeros are losing their tread? 3m ta3. ================ I am a prototype for a much larger idiot. |
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*looks skyward* maybe people would settle for product activation when they installed the game and wanted to play , much like say ... windows Xp... (technically theyre doing it already with WON and Half life or Battle Net) /me decides to go to sleep (soon) Ds |
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Jafd2k (#208): (Especially since any game without any online multiplayer is a game without value, anyway.) *sigh* Yes, all those RPG's I've enjoyed over the years were complete rubbish. Lack of multiplayer made them so totally without value. Do you seriously believe what you said, or are you just trying to provoke people? You can't be that dumb ... |
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#210 "Warren Marshall" wrote... Jafd2k (#208): (Especially since any game without any online multiplayer is a game without value, anyway.) *sigh* Yes, all those RPG's I've enjoyed over the years were complete rubbish. Lack of multiplayer made them so totally without value. Do you seriously believe what you said, or are you just trying to provoke people? You can't be that dumb ... Hmm, I missed it when that was said. That statement is just an opinion, worded as a statement of fact. That's obviously wrong since I almost never play online anymore, I enjoy my fps's, rts's, and racing games much more when playing single player. People annoy me anymore when I'm trying to play a game. Bring on the bots, random gen maps, and racing sims for me, you can have the people. :) |
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BarneyQue - Agreed. I've played countless games of Unreal Tournament, and not a one of them online. The bots are more fun to play with than human beings are. They don't camp, they don't spam, they don't bitch. They play their positions in CTF. They go after objectives in Assault. It's great. -shai |
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Good thing those console kids have cracks for their PlayStation games so they don't wear out their CD-ROMs. Oh wait, they don't. They actually have to insert the CD to play. Good thing Sony didn't include those super-lasers found in Creative's CD-ROMs that burn holes in the CDs. What if Total Annihilation required the CD for audio or cut scenes? Would that make it somehow more acceptible when the CD crapped out because it was, like, using it for the game instead of copy protection? Guess what? In either case you'd be screwed! |
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#210 "Warren Marshall" wrote... Do you seriously believe what you said, or are you just trying to provoke people? You can't be that dumb ... Well, I thought it as funny. ================ I am a prototype for a much larger idiot. |
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Console kids can make copies and play them with their "cracked" PSX or whatever systemm they have. |
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shaithis - "The bots are more fun to play with than human beings are" Scary, but true. Humans suck. :) |
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addendum _some_ humans suck and the bots arent nearly as sarcastic as I am ;) Ds |
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Let's agree on a compromise - most humans suck. :) |
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