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Whence do we come, where do we go, and why are we in this handbasket
October 9th 2000, 19:34 CEST by Darkseid-D Yes folks, its user participation time once more! This time, its time to get inside peoples heads, to find out how they tick. The voices in my head have successfully silenced the voices in Unkle J33ts head. By curious side effect, Mars has aligned with the rings of Saturn, causing Andy to go on a posting rampage, and that, frankly, Mondays suck. In keeping with my rather irrelevent and inane manner, I thought Id throw caution (and spell checking) to the wind. It struck me, no not physically, that we have several unique personae present. On one hand you have your better known George Broussards and Brandon Reinharts, your Warren Marshalls and Katherine Anna Kang/Carmack. On another you have the semi legendary Sgt Hulka, the erudite Tom Cleghorn, the incendiary Flamethrower and the BOFH Darkseid. An eclectic mix to be sure. So, in the interests of history, for the benefits of new posters and downright noseyness, I thought Id pose our readers and posters these questions. How would you describe your job? How did you get started ? What drove you down that career path? Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby Ever get sick of doing what you do? As always readers/posters/lurkers the floor is now yours. Feel free to participate, or just snipe at Andy for just posting this to get hits. Oh, wait, he didnt post this did he. Anyway, standard pop journalistic type devices aside, have at it folks, Im sure there are quite a few curious people out there. Ds |
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Topic: Whence do we come, where do we go, and why are we in this handbasket
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<b>#63</b> "mcgrew" wrote... <QUOTE>I wonder why none of the trolls has shown up yet? Did they close Australia or something? </QUOTE> hmmmm <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#63</b> "mcgrew" wrote... <QUOTE>I beta tested dirt (we never did get all the bugs out).</QUOTE> This is hilarious. I hope you stole it from someone else, because if you didn't I'd be forced to reevaluate my opinion of you. I read your "Guide to art" years ago and as far as I'm concerned that is your defining contribution to the online world. Everything else is just a bonus (or penalty depending on your viewpoint). - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<quote>I wonder why none of the trolls has shown up yet? Did they close Australia or something? </quote> Oi! |
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How would you describe your job? Public Relations/Quality Assurance/Information Systems/ Janitor How did you get started ? I graduated from Western Washington University with a Comm major/journ minor/CS Internet minor and got an Internship at Monolith in PR. I still feel I'm getting started though, really. What drove you down that career path? I love games and I wanted to work in games. I couldn't program or draw, so for me this is a way in. Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby I love working with games and I play games, they are close together (much to my wife's dismay). Ever get sick of doing what you do? It depends on which day you ask :) Dan Miller Monolith Productions |
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in the words of the game pharoah.. "hi I'm new here wonder what this board has for a person like me" now...for the masses How would you describe your job? running around yelling "NO" very loudly..... How did you get started ? when he said.. "i have a swimming pool" What drove you down that career path? horomones obviously! Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby ask your parents that..post the answer..and i will get back to ya! Ever get sick of doing what you do? thats why they will grow up and have kids of thier own!!!! now on a further note.. i am not a programer..a web dude ..nor am i even a DUDE... i am a at home mom..who has this wacky thing called a love of games! i just hopped on the first person shooter bandwagon..but i only like it when i do it in groups of 5 or more...giggling as i type.. othere than that.. i am a smart ass! |
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<QUOTE>How would you describe your job? </QUOTE> A big plate of ass with a good salary. <QUOTE> How did you get started ? </QUOTE> As with everything in my life, it all started with a hot chick. When I first met the woman that I would later marry, she was working for McAfee VS, and I was a waiter at a fine dining establishment. Between bouts of various physical and mental pleasure with each other, she showed me this nifty thing called <B>The Internet</B> back in 1996. I soon learned how to do HTML and such, which has led to more people being offended by my cartoons than ever before. <QUOTE> What drove you down that career path? </QUOTE> I soon discovered that there was money to be had in the tech industry. Having read "Windows 95 for Dummies", I was able to procure a job at Hewlett Packard's support, and then later went on to.... <I>DON'T throw anything at me, please...</I> MS Win98 support. I really don't like fixing computers all THAT much. I'd much rather be in bed w/ the wife, or playng games. But I have to admit, I have a knack for it, and it's better than waiting tables. <QUOTE> Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby </QUOTE> It would be easy to say that it's <B>JUST A FUCKING JOB, DAMMIT!!!</B>, but that's not entirely an honest answer. When I go to someone's house now, and see a PC, I want to know the specs. If I'm drinking with some buddies, they sometimes ask me questions about PC probs (Which I answer, and then anally violate them with a porcupine for not understanding the BEER=NOT MY WORK equation). I've met more than a few friends IRL over the net. Whether you realize it or not, you damned denial-addicts, if you interact on the net, it does, to a degree, no matter how Nth, become part of your lifestyle. Embrace your geekiness, I say. But not in public, and wash your hands afterwards. <QUOTE> Ever get sick of doing what you do?</QUOTE> Fuck, I just realized, I forgot to say- I support a rather huge LAN form my cube at IBM. No real "End Users", although some of the folks who call me are as daft as those that I supported at MS. That in mind, answer your own damned question: How many times a day can you hear "Mah Compewter don't werk" before you plant a steel chisel into someone's forehead? |
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[11] Tom Cleghorn "'Erudite'... hm, I think I like that :) " Cool. Hey, I hear you had the same crapspy problem I'm having, how did you fix it? [13] bagofmice "Blue... no.. Red... AAAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " That explains the swap file problems in the other thread! [16] Darkseid-[D!] "'Those who can, do it. Those who cannot, write about it?' " Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those who can't teach, are employed by district 186 :P [17] Andy "Which amuses me no end because I can do all three of them." Jack of all trades, master of... [56] Johan "Oh, and I eat whales for breakfast. With mashed panda-bears on top." I prefer baby seals... tender, juicy, delicious baby seals. Club 'em, skin 'em, cook 'em, eat 'em. Yummie! [59] Karl Palutke "Mechanical/Aerospace/Industrial engineer. I do support for the repair and overhaul of USAF cargo plans at Robins AFB, Georgia." Did you guys ever figure out why parts kept falling off C5s in the early 70s? [64] RahvinTaka "hmmmm " I was speaking of a few of your countrymen; mciya, ramtin, barcode... besides, you aussies deride us yanks often enough ;) (I shouldn't have posted that, sorry... |
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<quote>Hey, I hear you had the same crapspy problem I'm having, how did you fix it?</quote> Which is precisely what? I've been absent (with or without leave - your call) for several weeks, so I've no idea what your CrapSpy problem is :) The only problem I've had with CrapSpy was that it crashed out before doing anything else - and that one solved itself by magic. I shit you not :) |
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<b>mcgrew</b> (#70): <QUOTE>Did you guys ever figure out why parts kept falling off C5s in the early 70s? </QUOTE> Early 70s? Before my time (I was born in 74), but my guess is a manufacturing or design problem. They were new planes at that point. The C5s manufactured in the early 70s have historically been less reliable than the ones built in the 80s (which aren't that reliable themselves). The sad fact is that some of those same parts still fall off the planes. . . *** These opinions are mine, not my employer's or the USAF's *** <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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I went in, deleted the contents of the cache folder then reloaded the threads I wanted, clicked 'mark all read' :) Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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How would you describe your job? Information Systems Auditor - Fancy smancy name for being responsible for maintaining and troubleshooting any problem with ppv events and the physical network at my job. From application probelms with the billing system and controller software to problems with the routers and sonet. How did you get started ? Worked in a video game store when I was young and bounced around from tech support to help desk. Was given a chance to work where I am now and I am loving it. What drove you down that career path? I wanted to get into game programming but life got in the way. Having the money to pay bills comes first (for now). Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby. It is a job that I look forward to working at. I am still learning (/cliche off). Ever get sick of doing what you do? Not yet. |
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[65] G-Man "I hope you stole it from someone else, because if you didn't I'd be forced to reevaluate my opinion of you." Yeah, it's original. Every now and then one or two of my neurons actually fires. "I read your 'Guide to art' years ago and as far as I'm concerned that is your defining contribution to the online world. Everything else is just a bonus (or penalty depending on your viewpoint)." Yeah, I outdid myself with that. It got you to read the Stupid Strogg jokes, didn't it? Those were original, too. Too bad not as funny... I thank you for your kind words. [66] Milamber "Oi!" I must apologize to all the non-trolls in Australia now. My apologies. Just because all kangaroos are in Australia doesn't mean that all Australians are kangaroos. [71] Tom Cleghorn "The only problem I've had with CrapSpy was that it crashed out before doing anything else - and that one solved itself by magic. I shit you not :) " Yep, that's the prob and Craig's stumped. Durn, maybe mine will start working too [72] Karl Palutke "The sad fact is that some of those same parts still fall off the planes. . . " Everybody I knew wondered how something that big could fly. I always wondered how something that complicated could fly! I rode one back from Thailand, the pilot tried to break it by bouncing it a few times on landing (overnight per diem rates) and couldn't. The next stop, I couldn't tell when we touched the ground... and the navigation broke. |
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<b>G-Man</b> (#47): <QUOTE><B><A href="spy-internal:Load/169#46">#46</A></B> "bagofmice" wrote... <quote>PC site feature request. Could the New post indicators based upon last visit be written when you actually visit the thread? Thataway the new indicators are tagged per thread, as opposed to globally, which makes more sense. </quote> Just use CrapSpy you feeb. :) - [g.man]</QUOTE> ACK EGADS! ... THERE BE FEEBS! /d ducks<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#16</b> "Darkseid-[D!]" wrote... <QUOTE> <QUOTE>How would you describe your job? </QUOTE> I look after two electronic money transfer systems for a bank. At the moment I'm doing a back-end system to provide information over the internet, so it's a lot more interesting than the usual fire-fighting and testing that usually goes on the the place. Most of the work is SQL based using VB, ASP and javascript. It's fun enough, but very boring to explain. <QUOTE>How did you get started ? </QUOTE> After my computers degree, I was writing and publishing pen 'n' paper rpgs, but eventually I broke and got a job working for the Man. I think my first monthly paycheck was greater than the profits for the previous year with the rpg stuff (and my initial wage wasnae huge.) I enjoyed the rpgs immensely, but I think not having to get up in the mornings and put on a suit was its biggest advantage. <QUOTE>What drove you down that career path? </QUOTE> Money, and the classy chicks that chase guys with money :) <QUOTE>Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby </QUOTE> It's a job. I enjoy coding, but databases are not a good hobby. <QUOTE>Ever get sick of doing what you do? </QUOTE> Yup. But it pays, and I don't have overtime. Now, back to and praying that I've closed all those damned quote tags.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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arse<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<quote>Wieder: At least Sunstorm didn't throw rocks at you like A&M :/ (although I wasn't there at the time, I can't apologize enough for that display of neanderthal-like insanity).</quote> Holy cow Crusder, I had all but forgotten about that horrid event. No need to apologize of course since my fellow longhorns have done just as much at one time or another I'm sure. Did I write up that story in a .plan file while I was at Ritual? At first I was like "How on earth does he know about that?" ;) The beating we took at the hands of OU recently hurts deeper and will last much longer than that rock to the head did. :( Charlie Wiederhold |
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Crus<b>A</b>der |
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How would you describe your job? Reanimated Motivational Specialist (Project Manager) How did you get started ? A lightning storm in the castle, after lots and lots of stitching (with very fine thread), and no one wants me around. I parlayed that into a lucrative career convincing people they didn't want to work face to face with me. What drove you down that career path? Villagers with torches. Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby I was made for this line of work. Ever get sick of doing what you do? Yes, but a brief run through the editorial department, asking for content tends to stop that. Also, the occasional trip to the arctic. |
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<B>How would you describe your job? </B> I am a student of engineering. <B>How did you get started ? </B> By thinking "I am good at math, why not go for engineering?" <B>What drove you down that career path? </B> See above, and add a now dissapated interest in the field of Computer/ Electrical Engineering. It is definitely NOT for the women. <B>Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby? </B> I work too hard, and I don't especially like most of the subject material we cover so it's about as far from a hobby as possible. But I like college life, so that keeps me sane. I'm in it for the money at this point and the slight possiblity of a future job being better. Well, that and the fact that I realized I don't like this stuff two years into a rigorous curriculum. <B>Ever get sick of doing what you do? </B> Every day. |
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How would you describe your job? Organized chaos. I teach at a local high school and a local university. How did you get started ? The good ol' U of U. What drove you down that career path? I knew what I wanted to do a long time ago; consequently, I'm doing it for a living. Is what you do just a job? or more, like a lifestyle or your hobby? Lifestyle, yes. Hobby? You've _got_ to be kidding. Ever get sick of doing what you do? Yes I do get sick of it; however, there are other times when I believe I've got the best job in the world. =) |
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#79 You told me about it when I was at Ritual testing SiN before release (while showing off a newspaper clipping texture which said "UT beats A&M for 30th year in a row" or something to that effect), as I was attending A&M at the time. I was also the guy at the post-Qcon BBQ who pointed out that your shirt was emblazoned with the Fantastic Four logo. |
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PlanetCrap really demostrates how small this online world of ours REALLY is. - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Doh, post #82 was me. /me is dum |
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[77] mrbloo "I look after two electronic money transfer systems for a bank... using VB..." OMG I'm closing my account and putting the money in the mattress! "databases are not a good hobby." Amen to that! [78] mrbloo "arse" Ok I deserved that, sorry. ;) |
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<b>#87</b> "mcgrew" wrote... <QUOTE> [77] mrbloo "I look after two electronic money transfer systems for a bank... using VB..." OMG I'm closing my account and putting the money in the mattress! "databases are not a good hobby." Amen to that! [78] mrbloo "arse" Ok I deserved that, sorry. ;) </QUOTE> yeah, be afraid - although most of the work in our bank is still done with mainframes - we just give them the data to process. Our server goes down - ten minutes to fix it, or we go to the backup. If the mainframe goes down, people start eating their young and stocking up on baked beans and shotguns. For the record, the internet back-end I wrote used VB, which I hate using, but if you need something done quickly, it's not too bad - and I knew I could control its environment. I've rewritten other apps in javascript rather than try to get them working on other computers with the crappy VB installer. A 35k executable on top of three megs of dlls which interfere with other applications sucks.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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[88] mrbloo Don't worry, I trust you guys... i think ;) |
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<b>mcgrew</b> (#75): <QUOTE>Everybody I knew wondered how something that big could fly. I always wondered how something that complicated could fly! I rode one back from Thailand, the pilot tried to break it by bouncing it a few times on landing (overnight per diem rates) and couldn't. The next stop, I couldn't tell when we touched the ground... and the navigation broke. </QUOTE> The big problem we're having now is with the planes breaking while overseas and stranding Guard or Reservist pilots who are only called up for a few days at a time. At the end of their callup, the pilots take a commercial flight home, leaving the plane to be stored (usually at great expense) until it can be made flightworthy. Very few places have hangars large enough to store a C5.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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In order: Boring + Stressful + Fun + Interesting = variable. (Real answer: Multimedia Producer) By Chance (I started off doing other stuff and kinda ended up here) Money ('nuff said) It's a job ( I have a lifestyle which my job is a part of. I have hobbies which do not involve 0's and 1's, and even some activities that involve parts of my body other than (but sometimes including) my digital extremities) Yes (And this is usually a transient boredom which is alleviated when the next project comes along, for which sound and vision is required. When it gets exciting for a while. Then boring. Then exciting again as it all gets chucked together and you see some new sh1t for the first time.) |
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"Very few places have hangars large enough to store a C5. " Heh, you can put a few piper cubs in one, that ought to save a fw bucks ;) |
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Gee, it's been a week with no new postings, and there are less than a hundred here. That's a pity, because I know for a fact some of you have some very interesting stories. One fellow I know who lurks here (and occasionally posts), for instance, emmigrated from a very interesting part of Europe when he was very young to a very uninteresting part of North America. He has a nickname he doesn't use on line with a very interesting and humorous origin. This fellow can be hilarious. I wish he'd tell the rest of you his story, but it's his story and not my place to tell. In the interest of maybe kickstarting this thing and getting a few more people to post, I'm going to give my personal history of computing and computer games. As I mentioned, I'm an old fart. One or two of you are as young as my kids (and shouldn't be reading this smut ;) The first interest I had in computers was in grade school, with a boring 16mm movie in class that had one part that made me sit up and pay attention- the "electronic brain" that, when it made a mistake, was erased. "How would you like the death penalty for getting an answer wrong in class?", the announcer droned. Of course, he was referring to hitting the "reset" button (or pulling the plug). At the time, the world's biggest computer was no more than a humongous, giant pocket calculator (and your wristwatch is probably a more powerful computer than was available anywhere). I was 12 years old when I saw my first computer "in the flesh", as it were. The year was 1964, and it was at the World's Fair in Texas. There were two dozen terminals connected to it, running the first computer game I ever played- "Name the Presidents". Hints were given as to what president the computer was "thinking" of, with multiple choice answers. I distinctly remember thinking that if they would replace my teacher with one of these things, school wouldn't be nearly as brain numbingly boring. I also got to play with a light pen, a VERY low resolution one, to make "art" that was woven into a cloth bookmark with a computerized loom. At the time, this was the stuff of science fiction. So, I played my first computer game before Warren, CliffyB, or maybe even anybody else at Epic was even born! (punks!) The next computer "game" I ever played was in the Air Force. I was stationed at Dover, where the C5s were located and bodies were being shipped to from VietNam. It was winter, 1971 or 1972, nearly midnight. I was a vehicle operator for Aerospace Ground Equipment ("ground power") and I was scheduled to be off duty in half an hour. I got a call to deliver two air conditioners (each the size of an SUV) nearly to the other side of the base. Top speed on my tractor was about 15 mph, and I could see I was going to get home late. "WTF do these morons want with air conditioners" is what I angrily wondered; there was snow in the ground! Even wearing my parka I was freezing my ass off in the unheated tractor, and the closer I got to where I was going the colder and more pissed I got. When I got there, two guys were waiting outside in the snow. These guys HAD to be crazy. Of course, I asked them wtgdfh they wanted air conditioners for. "Oh, man, this is the coolest thing you've ever seen in your life!" they said. They were like five year olds on Christmas morning and I was Santa Clause. They took me inside to see their new toy. The entire building was full of what appeared to be bookshelves full of circuit boards, lined up like books. The air conditioners, they explained, were to keep the circuits cool. On room had this big, sci-fi looking thing on hydraulic jacks, with a ramp and stairs leading to its door. Inside was an exact mockup of a C5 cockpit, with ground glass where the windshield should have been. Yes, it was one of the world's first flight simulators, and they were right; it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. They would never, ever have let me fly a real C5, but they let me "fly" the simulator. The sun was coming up as I drove the tractor back. Yes, I later played Pong, and no, I wasn't impressed; I had played the C5 simulator. Pac Man and Space Invaders were a lot better than Pong, I still like those games. The first FPS I ever played was in Disney's arcade in that big A-frame hotel; Battlezone, a first person wire frame tank simulation. Way cool! Of course, when Timex came out with its T-1000, I bought one. It and its 1 mz Z80 was more powerful than the World's Fair computer, and probably as powerful as the C5 simulator. I wrote Artificial Insanity on that PC, as well as some games (Battle Tanks, Pac Man, and Space Invader clones). Because, that was the only way to play games on it; there weren't any games otherwise. I got a Radio Shack computer, not being able to afford a Commodore. I hacked a graphics program for it in a resolution its designers never intended it to be used in, and actually sold a few copies. I played with the Apple IIe in the public library, and wrote some stuff for it. Around 1986 or 1987 I got a used IBM XT, which I continually upgraded until it was a 386 and the only original parts were the case and power supply. I still have all the original parts, I understand that one of these may be worth money now as an antique. The next one I built was an AMD P120, with a brand new case and power supply. The latest is a piece of shit kludge Celeron 400 on a PII motherboard. Suckiest computer I ever used, let alone built. I'm stuck with it for a couple more years at least. So, what's your computing history? |
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olol |
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mcgrew hmm lets see first computer attempt ahh the ole apple..dont know what kind of apple didnt care at the time i was the only girl in my class that a: gave a crap b: learned to at least change colors on it c: hung around the guys typing goto 10 .... next.. mission impossible on a commedor 64 would accually fidagle my friend to invite me over for the night to play my parents bought me an atari played that to death... nintendo?! played at the guys houses... I remeber Top Gun!!!!!! met my future husband to divorce and a Tandy with Falcon Gold on it learned how to fly that on a keyboard without a manual also learned teh joys of "paint" programs i also had a friend ...call him Brain! he demanded i risk the wrath of his insane mother to come see his amiga OOOOOOOOH Populous!!!!!!!!! ooooh Compuserve!!!! at least a couple of years past that i moved to atlanta ..at the behest of Brain..and lo and behold..a puter...with lesiure suit larry..and Rex and the gender bender..[think thats what its called] and i also found out that Brain would never ever learn hardware...as i who new only that this was a box full of wires...installed his harddrive for him ..since he was about to break the whole box... then we found SCORCH!!!!!! ooooooooh ...blow that nuke!!! graphics sucked...game play was wonderful! having moved back to florida for awile...then going thru job corps...computers where not around much..but i did learn electric wireing..and plumbing! when i got home from that aventure .i found consoles and arcades..and played one of the meanist chunlis you'll meet and no i didnt use her super kick..i liked catching people in the air and throwing them to the ground..much more effective..and they could attack you less ahh the super nintendo..zelda...mortal kombat...breath of fire.... simcity.... did i say simcity! then lo and behold ...i find Brain..and what does he have.. a NEW pentium 90 math problem in tact..and Simcity2000 i went to work..went to brains house ..played simcity...went to work! finally ..i eased off a bit..and brain got prodigy for free...[he worked for compusa] and lo an behold CHAT!! and WAVS oh the wonders ooh the joy... famous last words.. computer crashes..he gets a c: with no error report..but he does get from the speakers "wheres the kaboom..theres suposed to be an earth shattering kaboom" he didnt breathe for 30mins not to mention the halliluia chorus when he recieved ims and windows starts...he got "you are an idiot" sung to him for days...that also caused him to stop breathing....he turned purple with mirth..i thought he might die! oh the joy..of watching him approch his computer with a mixture of dread and joy! ah ..then the wonderful windows 95...beta..that he "got" ahold of.. and teh multiple installs of 95..then 3.11 then 95 then 3.11 then the cascade crash...and i learned to loathe computers! but i was eternally hooked! after that ..tis just the same ole same ole i gain profficency and i loose time{grin} next! |
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mgrew... personall note mate wants to know if you new a bbs handle named Indigo88 |
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indigo you might be an overclocker if ...you put fuel additives in your push mover...heavy amounts ...you have ever dented the floorboard to see if the gas petal goes down further ...you have ever harmonicly balanced a room fan,or put a double inverting power supply in front of it so it doesnt vary with line voltage ...if you drink two diffrent forms of coffee...normal everyday..and the one that gets you awake ...you had ever wondered if you could just simply wire jumper an extra processer on..like they did ram in the late eightys ...you push the lid down on the pan to cook the noodles faster ...if you've ever gone for the t1 line assuming that dsl and cable arent fast enough ...if you despise wait states ...if you remeber 45nanosecond ram ...if you have ever bought a 1000watt linear amp for your moblie cd radio ...if you ever had a 4800 baud modem in your house ...if you carry type 14 in your pocket everywhere you go ...if your idea of a good heat sink ways more than the motherboard ...if you are unhappy that the enviroment laws passed and you now cannot direct vent the freon over the heatsink ...if you burned out more than 5 processors before the web came into existance ...if have ever tried to find an apartment with vents in the floor so you could set your computer on it ...if you have to shut down your computer to talk on the phone[syncro 1400 motor fan] ...if you have ever looked up a voltage amperage table..or called a manufacturer for burn out specs ...if you never owened a computer that ran at multiples of 33.50.or 100 ...if you've looked at a thunderbird heatsink and thought what a piece of blahguh... ...if you destain paper towels because your powersupply exaust drys your hands better |
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