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Walk Into Wall. Bleed. Repeat.
September 4th 2000, 04:09 MSD by andy NVIDIA owners -- rejoice! Epic have learned from their past mistakes. Owners of other video cards -- sigh in disbelief. Epic are going to make the same mistake again... Epic's Unreal engine was originally designed with 3DFX cards in mind, with its hardware rendering being based around the Glide API. This was because 3DFX cards were expected to be the de facto standard for gaming. It didn't work out that way, though, and as many other 3D cards became popular, so Epic had to adjust their engine to work with Direct3D and OpenGL. Although things got better with Unreal Tournament, and have continued to improve with patching, people still complain of poor (by comparison) frame rates under Direct3D, especially on NVIDIA cards. So do you think Epic have learned by now that it's a bad idea to target specific cards? (Cue the 'Crap masses: No!) Believe it or not -- but you really should believe it because it's true -- Epic have decided to focus their next engine on a specific manufacturer's cards. Again. This time it's NVIDIA cards, as announced in this press release:
Amazing, isn't it? Epic put themselves through a world of pain by focussing on one manufacturer when they believed it was going to dominate the market, and now four years later they're doing the same thing for the same reason. Gee, I wonder if it will all go horribly wrong... |
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Topic: Walk Into Wall. Bleed. Repeat.
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<b>RahvinTaka</b> (#150): <QUOTE>I really dislike the wrongness of this line of thought. People pirate games because there is an incentive to pirate games. Increasing price/protection schems increases incentive (luckily pirating schemes decrease accessibility or else all hell would break loose). Most people if given the option will go the path of least resistance - thus you give them an incentive to buy games and decrease incentive to pirate.</QUOTE> Ooo, that was well said... I think you just summed up the entire issue and the way you should solve it in the tidiest package I've seen. :)<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#127</b> "None-1a" wrote... <QUOTE>it's not like I have the right to go out and photocopy a book simply because some one might steal it. </QUOTE> Uhh...actually you do... that is exactly the kind of thing we are talking about... you could go photocopy all of your books, put them in a fireproof safe off-site and you would be perfectly, legally, in the right... and all of them would function in the same fashion as the originals... 12xu out<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#150</b> "RahvinTaka" wrote: <QUOTE>It seems many of games industry don't *get* this.</QUOTE> Well, they definitely get this, look at Blizzard for ex. The only problem is that they create the need for an after-purchase survice artificially (i.e., product won't work at full potential without it). That's BNet I'm talking about. Yes, helps to cut down piracy. But is a wrong approach.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#142</b> "[@~]MizuGami" wrote... <QUOTE>If your pissed, write an open letter to the hackers of the world, don't take it out on the developers/publishers. </QUOTE> why not? they take it out on their customers, not just the hackers.... 12xu out<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>RahvinTaka</b> (#135): <QUOTE>VHS is a bad analogy. VHS can be copied for backup without hinderance, </QUOTE> Can they? Even back when I was using them, I remember several movies that I couldn't copy due to protection schemes used on the tapes. The resulting video had lines and such running through it, and it had no audio. <b>xero</b> (#139): <QUOTE>You can call it a license to use a singular copy of the data or your can call it owning a copy of singular data. It's the same damn thing. </QUOTE> No, it isn't the same thing. Otherwise, they wouldn't call specifically call it a license. :) <b>flamethrower</b> (#140): <QUOTE>Of course you will, that's because the commonly accepted use of the word "buy" is to get ownership of something in exchange for credit chits. This is not the case with game, you merely rent them for the length of time the degradeable media happens to survive. </QUOTE> And now we're back to "CDs degrade over time/with use". We've been over this ... I think one way, you think another. *shrug* <QUOTE>However, drawing attention to this fact might point out to people that the games market is entirely stiched up against them. </QUOTE> Yes, we're out to get you. ALL of you! <i>*jumps from shadows*</i> <b>BOO!!</b> <b>PiRaMidA</b> (#141): <QUOTE>The difference here is that VHS, even the most watched one, would get like 1 use per day (not for very long, too). How many times have you watched you favorite tape? 20? 50? I doubt it's more than that. Games are different, with random CD access being performed each time you start it, so if you play the game daily your CD would deteriorate much faster than a tape. </QUOTE> The entire surface of the tape gets touched when you watch it. It then usually gets rewound at the end of the viewing. The tape gets spun and unspun from spools on either side. All of this, direct physical contact. A few random seeks on a CD equate to this? :) <b>xero</b> (#145): <QUOTE>You actually think EULA's are enforcable? Heh... they aren't really. Some software companies tried to get some laws passed to make them fully enforcable across all states, but I don't think it flew. Until that day, those EULA's mean about jack and shit. Until then I can make precisely infinite copies, and you cannot stop me. Try. </QUOTE> There's a difference between "I have the right" and "you can't stop me". <b>RahvinTaka</b> (#150): <QUOTE>It seems many of games industry don't *get* this. </QUOTE> *FREE* is always better than paying money. That's the pirate mentality. <QUOTE>MS got it long ago as did many other software companies - do you think they are suffering?</QUOTE> No, but not every company can afford to do things like sell Microsoft Access for $100 until all other competition is dead, and then jack the price up. Or give away Internet Explorer for free until all competition is dead and then own the internet browser market (and while IE is still free, they now own many intangible things). This takes money. BIG money. Most companies don't have that kind of cash ... Microsoft is a HUGE target for piracy. They claim millions and millions in losses because of it. But they're big enough to absorb it and still make a killing. -- Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Funny my UT cd just snapped the same way about 3 days ago. I gotta go get another one I guess : (<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#145</b> "xero" wrote... <QUOTE>You actually think EULA's are enforcable? Heh... they aren't really. Some software companies tried to get some laws passed to make them fully enforcable across all states, but I don't think it flew. Until that day, those EULA's mean about jack and shit. Until then I can make precisely infinite copies, and you cannot stop me. Try. </QUOTE> Yes is is in the process of takeing off, Second if the publsher was willing to sent a lawyer to your state to handel the case the EULA is fully inforable (as well as any other laws in your state that apply), they have to move around to do it but it is possible. <b>#129</b> "xero" wrote... <QUOTE>I said I own that data forever. Not until they go out of buisness, not until some dick steals my CDs. </QUOTE> If the compny went out of business there would be nobody to hold the copywrite on it, thus any thing would be leagal (unless the rights where bought buy someone else). Second you could also argue that when buying the data you expected it come come on some media. Since the CD's intent is to allow you access to the data, since you payed for that means to access the data (as well as the data) have the means gone mean is must be replaced. Since CD's do not become unuable simply by accessing the data in your lifetime like VHS does you would not need to create a backup for it. Currently you can create that backup (nothing says it must be easy), however unlike with the media at the time the laws where created it is unessisary with a CD (if a publsher wanted to push this enough the laws would nolonger apply to media that doesn't become unsuable with it's intended use). For any one that didn't like the Book thing replace it in my earlyer post to studio taken photos (which you can not for any reason photo copy even for your own use). I'm out of this now, it's turned into nothing but a big circle argument (warren how many times are you going to get me into these). -- None-1a. O forget it.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Post <b>#155</b> by Warren Marshall: <QUOTE>The entire surface of the tape gets touched when you watch it. It then usually gets rewound at the end of the viewing. The tape gets spun and unspun from spools on either side. All of this, direct physical contact. A few random seeks on a CD equate to this? :) </QUOTE> Yes, tape gets damages in two ways - first, magnetic coating gets destroyed from physical contact with reading head (though it touches each part of the surface *very* briefly, so it should not count). The only real threat is rewinding, which can stretch the tape. But, modern VCRs have a slowdown at the end of rewinding process, so it is taken care of. And, as I said, most tapes are watched what, 20 times before they get on the shelf for years? ;) <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#158</b> "PiRaMidA" wrote... <QUOTE>And, as I said, most tapes are watched what, 20 times before they get on the shelf for years? ;) </QUOTE> I'm guessing you don't watch a lot of porno? :) - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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[3] Show Time "Now let's fix my name." You mean like my wife had her cat fixed? [6] Jeremy "Despite your efforts to be a romantic hero, you will gradually evolve into a postmodern plot device." Too late, already happened [23] Mad_Dog "Having a broken collar bone is a pain in the ass." Are hemmoroids a pain in the neck? Damn, no wonder I flunked that physiology class (and the speling class) [36] Andy "Okay, either you've all misunderstood, or I've misunderstood, or God help me I've been suckered big-time by a press release." Like usual, you've misunderstood AND been suckered. Sucker! [40] xero "I could rant for a while on this one... " ...but instead you rave. [62] Derek Smart "If they get something that I don't, I'm going to make a big stink about it, make a couple of calls and either get someone fired or cause so much ruckus, you'll know I'm involved." Such a nice man! [63] Derek Smart "Other features which will most likely go unexplored but which will probably make their way into some products are support for Npatches, depth of field and motion blur, all of which the Radeon supports." WTF would you use motion blur and depth of field in a game for??? You guys seem to go for the 'eye candy' at the expense of gameplay these days. In a movie, lack of motion blur would elicit a "what was that?", while its inclusion in a game would elicit the same thing. Depth of field? Great, now we have a character that needs glasses, and we can do it in hardware! Notice there is little "depth of field" in real life unless you have an eye condition. Depth of field is purely an artistic technique, much like chairiscuro or pointilism (sp). [68] G`Kar "Non Facete Nobis Calcitrare Vestrvm Perinævm" which translates to "Doctors learn latin because they have to." No wait- "Get your knob outta my face before I cut off your vested penis" [69] G-Man "I've been watching for a long time, and I've yet to see you spell the word "break" properly. I'm beginning to think that you don't know how. :)" The english language is braked. BTW, are you a real G man? And when a G-man goes to the store, does he drive a G'Car? [70] Sgt Hulka "No One Farts Forever tech demo ran, slowly, but it ran, and it's cute. " Isn't that game "No One Liths Forever?" [87] flamethrower "G'Kars is another sad story of an honest gamer getting fucked out of their money. You do know, G'Kar, if you'd have priated this game you shouldn't be in this mess?" And you know what? Next time he probably will. Are you listening, Warren? COPY PROTECTION PROMOTES PIRACY. The Russian and Chinese professionals are going to crack your system no matter what, and the American script kiddies see your copy protection as a challenge, which they will post as soon as they can crack it just to show you they're as l33t as the Russian Mafia. Copy protection does NOTHING but annoy the honest customer and cost the developer needless development money, and sometimes sales. [89] Warren Marshall "Oh, that doesn't support your cd-protection-is-evil position. Sorry... " Yes it does. He has a game he paid for but can't play (kinda like Hulka but that's a different story) unless and until he sends YOU MORE MONEY. God damn it, if you are goinjg to put that shit copy protection in there YOU ought to pay the S&H, ship overnight, apologize to him, and throw in a free game for his inconvinience. I thought we rid ourselves of this shit back before CDs. There was a boycott going that fucking WORKED. Nobody would buy a game you had to have the floppy in for, and everybody dropped it for ten years or so. Jeet is right, these damned kids won't learn from history! [96] [@~]MizuGami "Pirating the game is not the answer. God If I hear one more..." God DAMN it get a fucking clue. He wasn't calling for piracy, he was pointing out to you fuckers that your antipiracy measures hurt US, not pirates. If I believed you guys were stupid I'd be able to understand this, but I don't see how someone that damned dumb could write a game. I agree with flamey that copy protection isn't evil. Its STUPID. You are hurting no one but YOU and ME. The pirates laugh at us both. [99] [@~]MizuGami "Oh so being unemployed gives you the right..." He didn't say that. He said he doesn't pirate games. "That attitude won't get you anywhere bro. You will become so jaded that NO app will live up to your preconcieved notions of what it's supposed to be." BULLSHIT. You have no fucking respect for your customers. You guys need to remember, just once in a while, who pays your mortgage. "How do you figure?" Why the fuck don't you pay attention? It's been explained a hundred times by a hundred people, dumbass!! "If a hacker IS able to break the app, it's usually incomplete. I've seen games that hackers have cracked that are buggy as hell, or are missing all CGI sequences." And how is this different from, say, Unreal Tourney? UT that I had to hack the INI to get to work? UT that Hulka can't get to work now? Are you saying they're selling pirated games at Best Buy? "I don't know 'bout you, but I'd rather dish the cash and get the whole game." Agreed, lots better than dishing out cash and not being able to play! " [flamey]'And you really have no idea why I am so pissed off.' No I don't. It's not my job. Call a professional. ;P" Well, so much for your status as a professional game designer ;p [100] [@~]MizuGami "Oh God, here we go. ;)" Dude, put down that crack pipe, take your ritalin, and READ THE GODDAMNED POSTS. [104] Warren Marshall "Oh, fragile my ass. :) I take absolutely SHIT care of my CD's (and DVD's). I have them laying around my desk, some on the floor, some in stacks on top of my computer. They slide around, get dropped ... they slide across each other whenever I thumb through a pile to find the one I want. I have some disks where the underside is full of scratches and marks. And you know what? They work perfectly ... so don't try to sell me "fragile". :)" You want to explain why over half of my kids' CDs are unreadable? They treat them just as carefully as you! Warren, you are full of shit. "Andy (#101): 'I get punished by 50 seconds for buying the game? Flamey does have a point." "Yeah, but we've covered your dinosaur of a PC before haven't we? :)" My ten year old van runs fine. What's wrong with Andy's three year old PC? You are telling us that without copy protection we could have saved $500 on that last hardware upgrade! And you STILL don't get it. [105] Andy "Otherwise I'll have to assume you don't have a proper argument." [106] xero Warren, are you and Derek feeling picked on? I notice George is nowhere to be seen, the coward... [107] [@~]MizuGami "That to me is lost sales if ever there were a definition." Yeah? I'm not buying Q3A. I got UT (same game, different developers; it's just Doom with mouselook and eye candy). Did id lose a sale. If I get a pirate copy of Q3 (I won't, BTW) they still lost a sale. "Lost a sale" is some doublespeak, isn't it? How can you lose what you never had? Id ALMOST had a sale. If they hadn't "lost" the sale, Epic would have. I do NOT appreciate funding your antipiracy measures, especially since it costs me in time and aggravation (see about thorty earlier posts). "I agree completely. But you know what? Times are changing, and its only a matter of time before developers can come up with a better mousetrap (copy protection that is) to keep these bums from stealing money out of the coffers." How much are you willing to wager? I'll bet my fucking HOUSE you won't invent a lock that can't be picked. What a man can build, a man can destroy. What you can pour blood and sweat and work into, someone else can burn to the fucking ground. You can even break a bank vault with enough time and plastique. [108] xero "It's kinda like not paying someone you hire to do work... you could call it 'stealing' their work, but I think that's just twisting the term. It's more like "not paying for services rendered". :)" Yeah, but when you're trying to argue that fire ain't hot and water ain't wet, you have to resort to semantics to keep yourself from sounding stupid. Um, the developers here aren't succeeding... [112] PiRaMidA "To make it shorter, I'll pull a PlanetCrap rule of the day out of my ass:" And I'll pull one out of mine- fuck you. Okey, now that I said that I feel better ;) [113] [@~]MizuGami "It sure as hell isn't non-paymet for services rendered." It sure as hell IS. This is why I get pissed off. People know it's wrong, but still refuse to make it tantamount to thievery." And this is what is frustrating the HELL out of me. NOBODY HERE IS SAYING PIRACY IS OK. We're saying you are STUPID for introducing something that DOES NOT STOP PIRACY BUT DOES INCONVINIENCE THE PAYING CUSTOMER. "if my shit stinks, I'll tell you it stinks." You don't have to tell us, we can smell it. But you're telling us your shitpile is a rose. [114] 12xu "what was this topic about again?" Stipid anticonsumer piracy algorythms. [115] G`Kar "No, you don't oppose piracy protection. You oppose poorly implemented piracy protection." Well, I would agree if their antipiracy were transparent to me, but it's not. I don't see how it could ever be. In other words, ALL antipiracy is poorly implimented. [116] G-Man ...and also uses an executable wrapper to authenticate the game." No wonder it takes so damned long to load. [117] Warren Marshall "If someone is standing there with a slow machine, and their game loads slow ... and there's a guy there with a fast machine, and his game loads fast ... how is the game at fault?" If someone is standing there with a slow machine, and their game loads slow ... and there's a guy there with the same slow machine, and his cracked game loads fast ... how is the copy protection NOT at fault? "What about VHS video tapes? Many of those (might be all now, I don't know, I haven't had a VHS machine in years) are protected against copying them. And from what I know, the tape is in direct contact with the reading head when you watch them." VHS copy protection is a JOKE. The only thing their antipiracy does is make the original shitty; the copies are identically shitty as the original (slight tearing at the top of the screen). And yes, the tape touches the head. Every time. "They wear out. They get grainy. Nobody bitches about that. Why not? :)" Because you can make backups. Because if the tape breaks, you can rent it and make a new copy. "If people didn't steal software, you'd be able to fully exercise your rights with no hinderences whatsoever." Damn it, what the FUCK do I care about pirates? I don't even know any damned pirates! All I care about is shelling out hard earned money to be inconvinienced. Pirates are YOUR problem, not ours. Please do NOT inconvinience us for the sake of your pathetically futile attempts at foiling the goddamned russians and the motherfucking chinese! Commie bastards, we shoulda nuked 'em, that woulda solved your piracy problems! I don't think you guys give a shit about your customers. It's pathos at its finest. [118] Derek Smart "SOF won't run on my Kenwood TrueX drive" So what would you do if that were your only drive? Take it back to the store! One more sale lost to piracy protection. [120] xero "It certainly is illegal to make copies [of a tape] for buddies" Not in the US; the courts have found it to be "fair use", then Congress further strengthend it with the Home Recording Act. The media reports lies that are in their interest. [122] G-Man "I'm not 100% sure but I don't think that SOF used SafeDisc. Activision doesn't have a licensing arrangement" They used a pirated copy! [123] Andy "...the PlanetCrap server is in the US..." So if Dopey Smurf posts his URL, you fellows are in danger of having pc wiped. Good move, guys. [127] None-1a "it's not like I have the right to go out and photocopy a book simply because some one might steal it." But you DO have the right to photocopy a book. You think the city would put xerox machines in the library if it were illegal? [130] xero "Actually yes I do own those songs. Those specific copies. I own them for personal enjoyment, as stipulated by fair use. I do NOT own the rights to sell those songs to others, and never claimed to. Those are two very different things." Ahh, and HERE is the crux of the matter. I have a right to make a copy of that Metallica album and give it to Warren. I have the right to rent "the terminator" and make a copy for my own use, or give it away. I have the right to photocopy a book, whether mine or the library's. Why don't I have the same rights with software? [135] RahvinTaka "VHS tapes are also considerably cheaper and there is a lot less risk - it is cheaper to buy a new tape than get a replacement shipped usually." Terminator II the movie cost 55 million to make, 10 bucks to buy. erminator the game cost 100k to make, forty bucks to buy. WHY? [136] RahvinTaka "no you don't. At least not under either US or australian law. You own a license to use them." No, you are confusing software and music. There is no license for music. [138] xero "yes it would be nice to backup your money via photocopying." I back up my money with a bank vault. When I want it, I just scribble on paper or stick a card in a machine. If I lose the card, they gve me another one. Free. If someone steals my card and uses it, I am only liable for a tiy bit of it. So if my house burns down or my wallet is stolen, yes, I have a backup. [139] xero "You can call it a license to use a singular copy of the data or your can call it owning a copy of singular data. It's the same damn thing." No it's not. A software license is a contract. I have no contract with Metallica, as much as Lars and his shyster would like to have one. Warren, on the other hand, has a leg up on Lars. [142] [@~]MizuGami "Xero, Have you ever actually read the EULA agreement that you must click on to install just about every piece of software?" Have you ever actually read the EULA agreement that you must click on to install just about every song? That's because there AINT ONE. ELAs are dinasaurs from the mainframe days, and I wish they would go away. Why should "Terminator: the game" have more protection than "Terminator: the movie", legal or otherwise? Especially since the movie cost five hndred times as much to produce and one tenth as much to buy? "They have to in order to keep the hackers out." GodDAMN, that is the funniest statement I've seen here today! You CANT keep out the fucking hackers, get it? "With every new security measure introduced, there are legions of hackers in dark little rooms toiling away to crack them." What man can create, man can destroy. So GIVE UP ALREADY, the friendly fire is fucking KILLING US. "If your pissed, write an open letter to the hackers of the world, don't take it out on the developers/publishers." The hackers didn't introduce the copy protection, you did. I cannot affect the pirates in any way. I CAN affect YOU, by leaving your game in the store until it's marked down to ten bucks (or forever, whichever comes later). Understand- I don't HAVE to play your game. I don't HAVE to play any game. Piracy is a personal problem- yours. Deal with it yourself, and quit dragging ME into your goddamned war. "It's like in ANY retail business, losses must be covered by increased prices and tighter security, or the company will go belly-up. I'd venture to say that we'd probably be paying $10-$15 less for each game if there were no piracy...Warren, Derek, George back me up/correct me on this one?" There is no way to prove ANY losses to piracy, but for the sake of argument, I'll agree with your figures. You (or rather, Warren) have copy protected UT. So, dude, you owe me the fifteen dollars you saved by copy protecting it. Although I'd rather just have a copy that didn't have to be in the CD drive that I could back up. But hey, fuck the customer, he doesn't matter, lots more where he came from, one is born every minute. Better make sure nobody gets a free copy, even if it costs you sales. |
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Post <b>#159</b> by G-Man: <QUOTE><i> I'm guessing you don't watch a lot of porno? :) </i></QUOTE> No, not on VHS, I have a computer for that :) Post <b>#160</b> by mcgrew: <QUOTE><i> And I'll pull one out of mine- fuck you. Okey, now that I said that I feel better ;) </i></QUOTE> Heh since we started talking about rules - fuck you too, old man, fuck you and your ten-page long posts in which you manage to answer every message in a thread ;) (no, you know I don't mean it).<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#161</b> "PiRaMidA" wrote... <QUOTE>Heh since we started talking about rules - fuck you too, old man, fuck you and your ten-page long posts in which you manage to answer every message in a thread ;) </QUOTE> The only problem I have with mcgrew is he can't seem to figure out how to use quote tags. - [g.man]<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#155</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE> <B>RahvinTaka</B> (<A href="spy-internal:Load/148#150">#150</A>): <quote>It seems many of games industry don't *get* this. </quote> *FREE* is always better than paying money. That's the pirate mentality. </QUOTE> no. Easy is better than hard. That is the average Joe way. Some people will pirate anything but the majority of people pirate because it is easy and get same/equivelent benefit for less effort. Now if you made the box contain kewl doodads and relatively cheap and easy to get then there would be a lot less pirating and a lot more buying. <QUOTE> <quote>MS got it long ago as did many other software companies - do you think they are suffering?</quote> No, but not every company can afford to do things like sell Microsoft Access for $100 until all other competition is dead, and then jack the price up. Or give away Internet Explorer for free until all competition is dead and then own the internet browser market (and while IE is still free, they now own many intangible things). This takes money. BIG money. Most companies don't have that kind of cash ... Microsoft is a HUGE target for piracy. They claim millions and millions in losses because of it. But they're big enough to absorb it and still make a killing.</QUOTE> I am not talking about market locking but more about a different philosophy. As a game developer you want to put as many copies onto as many machines and get the most possible per game in revinue. You should also readily exchange profits per unit with accessibility right ? The problem as I see it is the publisher/distributor system that is currently in place. They have soooooo much overhead it is not funny and the developer gets sooooo little compared to what they *should* get. Mainly though developers not having buisness expertise I would assume (not sure thou never been at one :P) <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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mcgrew #160 wrote the tome: [#96] [@~]MizuGami "Pirating the game is not the answer. God If I hear one more..." <quote>God DAMN it get a fucking clue. He wasn't calling for piracy, he was pointing out to you fuckers that your antipiracy measures hurt US, not pirates. If I believed you guys were stupid I'd be able to understand this, but I don't see how someone that damned dumb could write a game. I agree with flamey that copy protection isn't evil. Its STUPID. You are hurting no one but YOU and ME. The pirates laugh at us both.</quote> Wow....I guess I now work in the industry...Warren/Derek/George wanna hire me? ;) No I'm just a concerned consumer. [#99] [@~]MizuGami "Oh so being unemployed gives you the right..." <quote> He didn't say that. He said he doesn't pirate games.</quote> Maybe you should read more carefully...He said he did pirate games and would again. "That attitude won't get you anywhere bro. You will become so jaded that NO app will live up to your preconcieved notions of what it's supposed to be." <quote>BULLSHIT. You have no fucking respect for your customers. You guys need to remember, just once in a while, who pays your mortgage.</quote> See my response above. "If a hacker IS able to break the app, it's usually incomplete. I've seen games that hackers have cracked that are buggy as hell, or are missing all CGI sequences." <quote>And how is this different from, say, Unreal Tourney? UT that I had to hack the INI to get to work? UT that Hulka can't get to work now? Are you saying they're selling pirated games at Best Buy?</quote> Ok so it's Epic's fault that there were hardware incompatibilities for Hulka and yourself? [#100] [@~]MizuGami "Oh God, here we go. ;)" <quote>Dude, put down that crack pipe, take your ritalin, and READ THE GODDAMNED POSTS.</quote> It's called sarcasm my man, ever heard of it? ;) [#104] Warren Marshall "Oh, fragile my ass. :) I take absolutely SHIT care of my CD's (and DVD's). I have them laying around my desk, some on the floor, some in stacks on top of my computer. They slide around, get dropped ... they slide across each other whenever I thumb through a pile to find the one I want. I have some disks where the underside is full of scratches and marks. And you know what? They work perfectly ... so don't try to sell me "fragile". :)" <quote>You want to explain why over half of my kids' CDs are unreadable? They treat them just as carefully as you! Warren, you are full of shit.</quote> User results may vary... ;) "Andy (#101): 'I get punished by 50 seconds for buying the game? Flamey does have a point." "Yeah, but we've covered your dinosaur of a PC before haven't we? :)" <quote>My ten year old van runs fine. What's wrong with Andy's three year old PC? You are telling us that without copy protection we could have saved $500 on that last hardware upgrade! And you STILL don't get it.</quote> Apples and oranges here. Andy was referring to copy protection, Warren sounds like he was talking about Andy's excessive load times for the Sanity demo/game. #107 "I agree completely. But you know what? Times are changing, and its only a matter of time before developers can come up with a better mousetrap (copy protection that is) to keep these bums from stealing money out of the coffers." <quote>How much are you willing to wager? I'll bet my fucking HOUSE you won't invent a lock that can't be picked. What a man can build, a man can destroy.</quote> How many bedrooms is it? ;) I'd wager that fingerprint and retinal scanning would do the trick here. <quote>What you can pour blood and sweat and work into, someone else can burn to the fucking ground. You can even break a bank vault with enough time and plastique.</quote> I prefer it called C-4 ;) Just the Army in me. [113] [@~]MizuGami: "This is why I get pissed off. People know it's wrong, but still refuse to make it tantamount to thievery." <quote>And this is what is frustrating the HELL out of me. NOBODY HERE IS SAYING PIRACY IS OK. We're saying you are STUPID for introducing something that DOES NOT STOP PIRACY BUT DOES INCONVINIENCE THE PAYING CUSTOMER.</quote> God I must be the world's luckiest gamer. I've never had a problem...and I am a paying customer. [117] Warren Marshall "If someone is standing there with a slow machine, and their game loads slow ... and there's a guy there with a fast machine, and his game loads fast ... how is the game at fault?" <quote>If someone is standing there with a slow machine, and their game loads slow ... and there's a guy there with the same slow machine, and his cracked game loads fast ... how is the copy protection NOT at fault?</quote> Again, apples and oranges here. Warren was talking about Andy's excessive load times for the Sanity demo/game. [118] Derek Smart "SOF won't run on my Kenwood TrueX drive" <quote>So what would you do if that were your only drive? Take it back to the store! One more sale lost to piracy protection.</quote> Not always a piracy protection problem. Having cutting edge periphs can sometimes be the problem (drivers, disk rotates too fast, ect) [120] xero "It certainly is illegal to make copies [of a tape] for buddies" <quote>Not in the US; the courts have found it to be "fair use", then Congress further strengthend it with the Home Recording Act.</quote> Oh, so then Napster is getting sued because the lawyers are bored...gimme a break. I'd like to see this in hard-copy (paper form) [142] [@~]MizuGami "They have to in order to keep the hackers out." <quote>GodDAMN, that is the funniest statement I've seen here today! You CANT keep out the fucking hackers, get it?</quote> Give it time. "If your pissed, write an open letter to the hackers of the world, don't take it out on the developers/publishers." <quote>The hackers didn't introduce the copy protection, you did. I cannot affect the pirates in any way. I CAN affect YOU, by leaving your game in the store until it's marked down to ten bucks (or forever, whichever comes later). Piracy is a personal problem- yours. Deal with it yourself, and quit dragging ME into your goddamned war.</quote> No hackers didn't but it was introduced because of them. You are dragged into the war kicking and screaming whether you like it or not by just beig a computer user. If you were Amish and had no electricity, then you would be spared... "It's like in ANY retail business, losses must be covered by increased prices and tighter security, or the company will go belly-up. I'd venture to say that we'd probably be paying $10-$15 less for each game if there were no piracy...Warren, Derek, George back me up/correct me on this one?" <quote>There is no way to prove ANY losses to piracy, but for the sake of argument, I'll agree with your figures.</quote> Ahh the old "I didn't see it, so therefore it didn't happen" syndrome. There is no way to project exact numbers, but companies have a damn good idea how much they are losing to pirates. <quote>You (or rather, Warren) have copy protected UT. So, dude, you owe me the fifteen dollars you saved by copy protecting it. Although I'd rather just have a copy that didn't have to be in the CD drive that I could back up.</quote> Try the NO-CD crack it works wonders. I have nothing against using cracks if you legally own a copy of the app. Damn Warren, he really wants me to work with you...hint, hint ;) <quote>But hey, fuck the customer, he doesn't matter, lots more where he came from, one is born every minute. Better make sure nobody gets a free copy, even if it costs you sales.</quote> No the industry isn't fucking the customer, hackers are fucking the customer. Derek Smith aka [@~]MizuGami <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#131</b> "Jeremy" wrote... <QUOTE>I'm assuming there's some flaw in the Kenwood drive itself; but it seems odd that for the most part it works perfectly... </QUOTE> I think I recently read in Maximum PC that some class action lawsuit had been settled and owners of those defective drives would get free replacements. I just keep forgeting to contact the parties involved. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#165</b> "Derek Smart" wrote... <QUOTE>I think I recently read in Maximum PC that some class action lawsuit had been settled and owners of those defective drives would get free replacements. I just keep forgeting to contact the parties involved.</quote> Woah, if anybody has any link on that I'd love to see it. I've got this nifty 52x drive that won't even read all my CDs (just realized that WoT didn't work in it either, so that makes 3). Though I <i>know</i> I no longer have my original box/receipt/whatever as I didn't realize it had issues until well after I got it :\ Jeremy -- Despite your efforts to be a romantic hero, you will gradually evolve into a postmodern plot device. <I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>G-Man</b> (#159): <QUOTE>I'm guessing you don't watch a lot of porno? :) </QUOTE> LOL! <b>mcgrew</b> (#160): <QUOTE>And you know what? Next time he probably will. Are you listening, Warren? COPY PROTECTION PROMOTES PIRACY. </QUOTE> And PIRACY PROMOTES COPY PROTECTION. Quite the situation we're in huh? :) <QUOTE>Yes it does. He has a game he paid for but can't play (kinda like Hulka but that's a different story) unless and until he sends YOU MORE MONEY. </QUOTE> Well, technically, the data on that CD is still good ... he just can't read it because the media broke. All he would be paying for is the media to get a new copy. His license to the software is still good ... What's my point? Beats me. :) -- Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Which came first the piracy or the protection .... its not as obvious as you think Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#117</b> "Warren Marshall" wrote... <QUOTE>What about VHS video tapes? Many of those (might be all now, I don't know, I haven't had a VHS machine in years) are protected against copying them. And from what I know, the tape is in direct contact with the reading head when you watch them. They wear out. They get grainy. Nobody bitches about that. Why not? :) </QUOTE> I do, but now I have DVD instead, so I don't worry about how pathetic VHS is. Hell, I've bought a new VHS tape, brought it home, and had a nice band across the top of the screen where the tape was stretched or magnetized. WTF is that? -PainKilleR-[CE] |
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<b>[@~]MizuGami</b> (#164): <QUOTE>mcgrew <A href="spy-internal:Load/148#160">#160</A> wrote the tome: <quote>How much are you willing to wager? I'll bet my fucking HOUSE you won't invent a lock that can't be picked. What a man can build, a man can destroy.</quote> How many bedrooms is it? ;) I'd wager that fingerprint and retinal scanning would do the trick here. </QUOTE> you have your retinal scanner a piece of code in the game requires you to stick your eye in it and pass the pattern match before it let's you run the game vlad in romania writes a patch that makes it automatically get the retina print from jason hall to pass the test, then puts it on alt.binaries.games.hax ng in singapore writes a patch that bypasses the check and just makes the system think it checked successfully and uploads it to www.gamecopyworld.com all the bad people play the game as much as they want little timmy buys the game later that week, little timmy get's his eye poked out on the playground little timmy comes home and tries to play his game, but since it's got his left retina print on file, and he no longer has a left retina, timmy can't play the game <i>"It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye"</i><I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Post <b>#170</b> by err head: <QUOTE><i> little timmy buys the game later that week, little timmy get's his eye poked out on the playground little timmy comes home and tries to play his game, but since it's got his left retina print on file, and he no longer has a left retina, timmy can't play the game </i></QUOTE> God, I guess I am perverted, but that made me laugh for few minutes... And yes, there is no protection made by men which other men can't break. And usually, with much less hassle than it took to create that protection.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#166</b> "Jeremy" wrote... <QUOTE>Woah, if anybody has any link on that I'd love to see it. I've got this nifty 52x drive that won't even read all my CDs (just realized that WoT didn't work in it either, so that makes 3). </QUOTE> I'd like to see something on that, too, because my 52x drive just stopped working for some reason (I think it's because I ripped mp3 files from some 400 CDs with the drive, but I could be wrong, maybe it was Diablo 2 that killed it). That's another beautiful problem with copy protection schemes, though, a fair number of them have a list of CD-ROM drives with which they simply do not work correctly. -PainKilleR-[CE] |
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<b>err head</b> (#170): <QUOTE><I>"It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye"</I></QUOTE> LOL! And besides that, if I have to keep putting my eye up to the scanner, it's going to get worn out. :) -- Warren Marshall - Professional Nuisance<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<b>#173</b> My Personal Lord and Savior "Warren Marshall" wrote: <QUOTE>And besides that, if I have to keep putting my eye up to the scanner, it's going to get worn out. :) </QUOTE> Sure, maybe you'll get retinal cancer, but all your dirty magazines will be safe :) Wait, you don't work at 3D Realms.... nevermind.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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You guys maybe taking this a little bit out of preportion. What you're saying is that I would have to <i>purchas</i>e a retinal scanner for my computer and use it <b>EVERY DAY</b> just to play a video game? Jesus, it's not like a carry nuclear secrets and the address of the ruling illuminati (sp?) on my hard drive. I have a few video games, word, and Outlook, and Jezzball (Not a video game, an ancient art). Why would I want a retinal scanner, except for the fact that those bastard game companies are forcing me to buy one in order to play their game?<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Maybe MS (or the government) will force you to identify yourself with a retinal scan upon login (into a next iteration of Windows)? You know, combined with a worldwide database of (legal) customers/citizens? Insert random nightmare inducing speculations here. |
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<B>#160</B> "mcgrew" wrote... <QUOTE> And you know what? Next time he probably will. </QUOTE> No, he won't. How would I be any better off if I had a pirated version? Hell, I could conceivably be worse off. Now, if I can't get a burn from one of my friends, I can always have Epic send me a new CD. If I had a pirated copy, well, I'd be pretty well screwed. Next time, I <I>will</I> use a backup copy of the CD, and store the original away (I've done this for Deus Ex). ~~ Ignie Ferroque, Ash. - "Non Facete Nobis Calcitrare Vestrvm Perinævm" |
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Um G'Kar www.gamecopyworld.com get the nocd exe. then you dont _need_ to worry about your legally bought and owned cd becoming damaged. game loads quicker too :) note, if you pirated the game, shame on you, go and buy it, send a message that we _want_ this kind of game. Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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Dare I suggest this ... those new screenies from Unreal Warfare look spiffy but +insert tongue_in_cheek anyone else think the new players face looks like Bruce Campbell -remove tongue_in_cheek Ds<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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<B>#178</B> "Darkseid-[D!]" wrote... <QUOTE> then you dont _need_ to worry about your legally bought and owned cd becoming damaged. </QUOTE> I have it. It doesn't help me load patches, or the Linux version, which is what I <I>really, really</I> want to do. <QUOTE> game loads quicker too :) </QUOTE> Not noticeably. For me, anyway, but I have a SCSI CD-Rom drive and a fairly high-end (750 - 900 Mhz Athlon) system, so I never really noticed the UT loading time to begin with. ~~ Ignie Ferroque, Ash. - "Non Facete Nobis Calcitrare Vestrvm Perinævm" |
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S3TC- quality comparison on geforce under Linux: pics can be found <a href="http://www.3dcenter.de/news/2000-09/09-1.php3">here</a> (some more shots without comparison <a href="http://filebox.vt.edu/users/rhink/UTS3TC/">here</a>) (german site) note: seems to have been a Ghz-PC Ut was running on.<I><B></B></I><I></I><I></I> |
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