RIP Steve Jobs · PlanetCrap 6.0

Front Page (ATOM) • Submission Bin (4) • Archives • Users • Login • Create Account
You are currently not logged in.

T O P I C
	RIP Steve Jobs October 6th 2011, 04:21 CEST by CheesyPoof I was late to the Apple wagon, but I'm glad that I jumped on. Thanks Steve.

C O M M E N T S

Home » Topic: RIP Steve Jobs

|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»|

#24 by deadlock
2011-10-07 12:32:25

g-man:

I think NeXT was more important than late-stage Apple stuff (at least on the computing side). Also, I'm not sure Jobs should get any credit for anything that happened with Pixar. He basically bought the company from Lucas fully primed from what I understand.

NeXT is only important in the context of the revived Apple since OS X essentially is NeXTSTEP.

Shadarr:

#12 by G-Man

I don't know that Jobs was important to enabling Pixar to make films. He basically bought them as a hardware company and only when that tanked did he try to make them an animation production house as a last ditch effort.

This is my basic problem with the Steve Jobs lovefest. He's the boss, sure, so he deserves some credit. But the way people talk, you'd think he built the iPhone in his garage and directed every Pixar movie. You don't hear people talking about how Sam Palmisano created Watson.

There's some truth in this and people are quick to eulogise when someone has died. That said, I think you're selling Jobs short. He may not have come up with every idea and it's certainly a team effort but he was passionate about and championed all of these great products and innovations and there's no doubt that they wouldn't have been successful if he hadn't been as enthusiastic as he was. And he was right there, in the thick of it, testing, refining, contributing. He wasn't like the revolving door CEOs at HP or maybe Steve Ballmer at Microsoft: only seeing the products during monthly reviews or whatever. Jobs was right there from inception to launch, contributing at every stage.

Pathetic.

#25 by Fugazi(werking)
2011-10-07 19:23:40

A shame he died. I liked his tenacity a great deal, but his acolytes tire me.

Xbox 360 Blog

#26 by BobJustBob
2011-10-07 20:12:01

Yeah, it sucks how people are always talking about how their superior product is so superior.

BUYBUYBUY

#27 by Fugazi(werking)
2011-10-07 21:51:52

Yes.
That's exactly what I meant since I am irrational and unreasonable about my tastes.

Xbox 360 Blog

#28 by G-Man
2011-10-07 22:13:57

LPMiller: I know that I'm beating a dead horse here, but let me break it down into smaller chunks for you:

Jobs visited Pixar in person less than six times before 1994 according to Hormby, mostly because he couldn't be bothered to do the less than two hour drive from Palo Alto to Modesto.

The Disney film development deal was reached in 1992 and the Toy Story script was formally approved by Disney on January 19, 1993. A rough cut of the film was presented to Disney on November 19, 1993. Disney didn't like it and required major changes to the script which were made over the course of two weeks. In March of 1994 the cast returns to record the revised script.

That means that the script was frozen and all voicework was recorded before Jobs had been to Pixar more than a half-dozen times in his life. Toy Story then premiered on November 19, 1995.

Exactly how much involvement could Jobs have had on Toy Story's development if he was never at Pixar when pretty much everything but the grunt work of rendering it was completed?

#29 by deadlock
2011-10-08 01:27:17

Real shame pixar never got to to anything after Toy Story, isn't it?

Pathetic.

#30 by deadlock
2011-10-08 01:28:46

Come on lads, the dead can't begrudge themselves.

Pathetic.

#31 by LPMiller
2011-10-08 01:32:54

Yeah, and yet you are still wrong.

For one thing, you have your story on Toy Story wrong. According special features that are right on the Toy Story dvd (and in articles on the web) Disney required rewrites before the movie was made. Lasseter previewed the rough cut to them and everyone hated it. Lasseter went back, and in two weeks re did it to his own vision, which basically ignored every note Disney gave him, and that became the movie that was released. What you have written contradicts Lasseters version. You can make the chunks as small as you like, it's not going to suddenly make them true.

Some of this is outlaid in this otherwise kind of boring Charlie Rose interview: source, but the gist is also restated on the latest Blu-Ray.

"Steve's major impact was on the strategic direction of the company," said David Price, author of "The Pixar Touch." "He had the crucial insight that Pixar could one day be the equal of the Walt Disney Company in animation. He made this vision a reality by overseeing the IPO of Pixar stock in 1985, a week after 'Toy Story' was released. He foresaw that if they had that capital, it would give them the independence to create a body of work and to become a brand that would become as powerful in entertainment as Disney. He was very explicit about this.""]"Steve's major impact was on the strategic direction of the company," said David Price, author of "The Pixar Touch." "He had the crucial insight that Pixar could one day be the equal of the Walt Disney Company in animation. He made this vision a reality by overseeing the IPO of Pixar stock in 1985, a week after 'Toy Story' was released. He foresaw that if they had that capital, it would give them the independence to create a body of work and to become a brand that would become as powerful in entertainment as Disney. He was very explicit about this."

source, and yes I know they got the date wrong

So really, we have yet another source that shows Job's involvement was a bit more then 6 visits to the company.

The horse isn't dead, you keep missing him.

Was Lasseter the creative force in the company? Yes, Steve himself said that. That doesn't mean Jobs was kicking it up old school, forgetting he even owned the company. I mean, you are telling the story of 2 different Steves, stating he had no real involvement because it wasn't selling what he originally wanted to sell. That doesn't wash with his entire history, for one thing.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."

"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble

#32 by lwf
2011-10-08 01:42:19

Look. It is true that but for Jobs' investment and subsequent support, Pixar doesn't exist. But that's a incredibly low bar to meet. The same could probably be said of coffee. Michaelango couldn't have done the chapel without patronage either, but it's pretty clear who deserves the credit on that one.

Handsome like a coat hanger. Wii.

#33 by LPMiller
2011-10-08 03:07:21

i never said he deserved all the credit, just a bit more then G-man's simplistic view.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."

"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble

#34 by deadlock
2011-10-10 13:00:23

For G-man.

Pathetic.

#35 by G-Man
2011-10-10 18:44:13

Seen it dummy. Ever heard of PR?

#36 by Hugin
2011-10-10 19:12:11

I think the lives of Henry Ford and Thomas Edison aren't as cut and dried as general history would lead people to think (Edison in particular merely refined/commercialized a lot of things he's given credit for inventing, and when I say Edison, in a lot of cases I mean his staff/assistants anyway).

But what Ford, Jobs, Edison and others like them had was this combination, this intersection of charisma, perfectionism, motivational skill, marketing skill, stubbornness, and (enough) actual technical knowledge to make sure their companies weren't making bullshit.

When you look at Reed Hastings at Netflix, or any of the assholes running HP, or Larry Ellison, or any number of others you could name in the business community, the combination of all that is special and truly rare and underselling it is foolish. Yes, it's probably smart to note all the other people that contributed to the successful events in Steve Jobs life, and yes, some of these things would have to have been essentially fortuitous accidents, but the key is, Jobs, with very few exceptions, managed to take positive advantage of those events. And it's clear from talking to everyone who worked with him or had to compete against him, from friends and plain old enemies, what he did, what he was, was unique, and not to be lightly dismissed.

"Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob

#37 by G-Man
2011-10-10 19:37:11

I know about Edison and agree with your first paragraph.

I also agree that if H-P's management is your benchmark for comparison purposes, then sure, Jobs is amazing. But I don't think that is a fair (or useful) comparison. Also, what's wrong with Larry Ellison besides being an asshole? His company is very successful too.

#38 by Hugin
2011-10-10 20:21:17

I was trying to make a range, between total fuckups, what seem to be decent enough CEOs who've made some missteps, and successful CEOs who probably aren't going to be lauded as "world changers" when they die. I should have put the HP guys and gals before Hastings.

"Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob

#39 by gaggle
2011-10-10 21:20:05

Clicking 'like' on hugin's posts

"Roses are red, violets are blue, rubbish is dumped and so are you." : : - FML

#40 by BobJustBob
2011-10-10 21:21:52

I can't wait for it to stop being trendy to bash Netflix.

BUYBUYBUY

#41 by CheesyPoof
2011-10-10 21:25:46

Well, if Netflix stopped fucking up they wouldn't be bashed.

<Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.

#42 by BobJustBob
2011-10-10 21:28:49

If I had read your comment two minutes ago I would have said they haven't fucked up yet, but then I read they're keeping discs on netflix.com. Fucking Netflix.

BUYBUYBUY

#43 by deadlock
2011-10-11 01:03:04

#35 by G-Man

Seen it dummy. Ever heard of PR?

There's something sort of... nice about you calling me a 'dummy'. Like we're brothers. *SNIFF*

Pathetic.

#44 by TreeFrog
2011-10-11 01:12:42

Jobs was a total dick, but at least he made people care about UI. Imagine being stuck with Windows Phone 6 for all time. And that's exactly what would have happened if Apple hadn't forced everyone else to raise their game.

I am back from two weeks in Alabama. The weather was gorgeous and I bought a bunch of tools and clothes, thereby balancing out my manliness and femininity.

"One part disembowels me while another slowly eats its way through the gas line. As I bleed out on the floor, it reminds me that I need to buy milk." - Jibble

#45 by BobJustBob
2011-10-11 02:40:20

I find your story implausible. Alabama has never had two straight weeks of good weather.

BUYBUYBUY

#46 by TreeFrog
2011-10-12 01:45:18

I was exaggerating. I was there for just under two weeks.

"One part disembowels me while another slowly eats its way through the gas line. As I bleed out on the floor, it reminds me that I need to buy milk." - Jibble

#47 by Trolly McTroll
2011-10-18 22:38:05

I'm glad he commissioned someone to write his biography so his children could know him. That's nice.

Britney Spears is about as subtle as an alarm clock that punches you in the balls.

#48 by Gunp01nt
2011-10-18 23:02:30

In a way, aren't we all his children?

She's probably had sex with like 4 different guys by now and has no idea who he is anymore, his face lost in a memory sea of dicks.

#49 by jjohnsen
2011-10-25 04:17:10

Did anyone get the biography? It's not bad so far, I'm actually a little shocked that Jobs agreed to it, he comes of as a bit of a dick. The honesty is not what I expected from a guy that usually controlled the media so well.

Johnsen Family
Planetcrap Flickr Group

#50 by yotsuya
2011-10-25 04:55:13

Well, he's not around to say anything about it, so either he didn't care, or the publisher didn't care. Hmmm.

52 Weeks and Something's On Movie Blog

#51 by LPMiller
2011-10-25 05:07:41

eh, he was always a dick, it just amazes me that people seemed to have forgotten a lot of that till now. Bill Gates was a big dick too, people have forgotten that as well. You don't get that rich by being nice.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."

"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble

#52 by jjohnsen
2011-10-25 05:33:08

I know he was a dick, it just surprises me that he didn't care that he was going to be portrayed as a dick after being such a control freak about the media for so long.

Johnsen Family
Planetcrap Flickr Group

#53 by Chunkstyle
2011-10-25 07:45:20

I'm not sure he realized he was being dickish.

Game Developers: Don't forget the zombie monkeys.

#54 by Matt Perkins
2011-10-25 20:41:07

I think Chunk has the right of it. Driven is how many of these top guys see themselves. A giant dick is how others see them many times.

"programmers talk from a very deep gnome cavern, full of gold mechanics" - wisdom from the ancients

#55 by TreeFrog
2011-10-26 00:45:30

I want a billionaire I can look up to. Someone who is just all-round kitten-huggingly nice. Alternatively a psychotic billionaire who pays someone to cap motherfuckers like Zuckerberg.

"One part disembowels me while another slowly eats its way through the gas line. As I bleed out on the floor, it reminds me that I need to buy milk." - Jibble

#56 by Matt Perkins
2011-10-26 02:22:03

Well, just send me the money.

"programmers talk from a very deep gnome cavern, full of gold mechanics" - wisdom from the ancients

#57 by Milan Brezovský
2011-10-26 13:56:00

Well, I don't know anything about the guy, but at least Warren Buffet said out loud that super-rich should get higher taxes. Doesn't make him kitten-huggable, though.

Parhelic Triangle is coming. Eventually.

#58 by gaggle
2011-10-27 23:18:05

From looking at my colleagues computers BF3 looks pretty standard-fare linear singleplayer bullshit. I'll have none of that.

On the other hand, Steam Halloween sale has Deadspace 1 and 2 for 17 bucks. HOLY SHIT. I've been wanting to play DS2 for a good while.

"Roses are red, violets are blue, rubbish is dumped and so are you." : : - FML

#59 by G-Man
2011-10-28 01:27:22

Yeah, other than the graphics I'm not sure what the big deal is. But maybe I am just old an busted etc. Personally I never really dug the ticket/respawn system that the BF series relies on for its central gameplay - much preferring the limited spawn system that Counter-Strike uses - so perhaps I am just not in the target market in the first place.

#60 by Gunp01nt
2011-10-28 09:54:45

Games like MW2 and BF3 and the like are becoming so linear they're getting dangerously close to rail shooters. The BF3 fighter plane sequence already is.

She's probably had sex with like 4 different guys by now and has no idea who he is anymore, his face lost in a memory sea of dicks.

#61 by Dethstryk
2011-10-28 18:04:56

Judging BF3 for its throwaway SP campaign sort of misses the point of the game. The meat is in the MP.

\"Making love to a woman is like working on an assembly line. No matter how good you are at it, you\'ll eventually be replaced by a foreigner or a machine.\"

#62 by Matt Perkins
2011-10-28 22:51:17

From what I've seen, if I had a good internet connection, I would have bought BF3 already. It looks fantasic and appears to capture at least some of the goodness of BF2.

"programmers talk from a very deep gnome cavern, full of gold mechanics" - wisdom from the ancients

#63 by jafd
2011-12-21 16:56:47

I have been informed that Mr. Jobs has yielded The Prize to Its Riteful Owner.

Don't worry, I'll use it for what it is for, then I will put it back.

AND THEN NONE OF YOU EVER GET IT AGAIN, UNTIL YOU LIVE WHAT THIS ONE HAS GONE THROUGH ALONE.

SO MOTE IT BE. .eol.