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Facebook and mobile gaming? Duh, #winning!
March 4th 2011, 19:38 CET by m0nty Iwata gave the GDC keynote the other day, in which he bemoaned that game developers are not appreciated for their talents by customers paying top dollar for games that cost millions to make. It seems that Facebook games like Angry Birds have devalued the gaming experience for the masses in that they now expect the free-to-play model rather than actually having to pay for software. Then again, the new generation of game players are a lot more casual in their gaming habits than the hardcore, seeing as a large proportion of them skew old and female, part of a demographic who never would have played a game on a computer more complex than Solitaire before getting addicted to Crackville. Despite "traditional" computer game industry veterans like Brian Reynolds at Zynga and Raph Koster at Playdom moving across to social gaming companies and having a solid amount of success, it seems that old style game designers are being pushed out of the development and iteration process by marketing mavens watching real-time analytics from users interacting with features, such that intuition is now being replaced by metrics. The social games industry on Facebook went through a massive growth period which ended recently when Facebook turned off or restricted a lot of the virality features that had led to J-curves of word-of-status-update to produce gigantic injections of user numbers, making the likes of Zynga and Playfish the juggernauts they are today. All of these companies are bleeding users fast nowadays, and those who are adding users are relying on less noticeable spamminess that is still allowed. I am developing a social game myself, which is why I have immersed myself in this new world where the metrics are MAU, DAU, ARPU and sparkles-per-second. A couple of years ago, people were complaining about how PC games were being dumbed down to fit in the console model, but wait until you see the facebookification of your favourite games. This chart shows where all the growth is, and it's not in consoles, it's in social games. There's already a Facebook version of Saint's Row. This is the tip of the iceberg. As part of my research into the subject, I have been playing a few Facebook games myself: Madden NFL Superstars, CBSSports.com Franchise Football, plus a bit of Galactic Trader just to see what it was like. What about you and your social gaming habits? I know a couple of you play Frontierville (*cough*Bobandjjz*cough*). Would you be okay with the concept of acheivements that you're all used to from consoles to be even further extended to the ____ville mechanics of collection and gifting? Is there any actual gameplay in social games or are they just Cow Clickers? How much multiplayer content is there really, when your main interaction with other players is to send each other gifts? This is a fast-moving industry, but there's still a question mark on whether it's moving downwards to sudden oblivion, or whether these clicking grannies will ever move to more hardcore games with synchronous gameplay. I look forward to this topic being hijacked as soon as possible. Viva Libya! |
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Topic: Facebook and mobile gaming? Duh, #winning!
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Yeah slippery slopes are ever present to be sure. From the sounds of it the resolution is specific to preventing civilian casualties, but we'll see if and how that translates into actual reality. |
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Furthermore I would assume this could lead to more rebelling in other countries, fueled by the expectation that the UN will intervene if it goes tits up. are we committed to helping everyone? Plenty millions of people have been killed in the past couple decades by their own governments without any intervention because, well, that's just how the world works. There is no right way to go into another country and assert your rules. But here are civilians and rebels alike completely fucking stuck, by all accounts just hours and days away from being firebombed and wiped out by military forces. It's a delicate situation to be sure. |
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Yep, I have been mulling this over and have not really come up with a good answer. Starting another war is not a great idea. Leaving the rebels to their certain doom is pretty callous too. I do not really have an answer per say... but I guess erring on the side of the people over Qaddafi has to be better... "programmers talk from a very deep gnome cavern, full of gold mechanics" - wisdom from the ancients
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#211 by gaggle Yeah slippery slopes are ever present to be sure. From the sounds of it the resolution is specific to preventing civilian casualties, but we'll see if and how that translates into actual reality. Yeah, just like we were saving the Iraqis from that evil dictator so they wouldn't have to live in fear or leave the country in droves. |
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Well that was the joke I made before, you just can't go in and force "liberation" on a people. And to be fair the world was against that war but despite that we still went ahead (I say we because Denmark took part of it as well). This resolution is not about landing an occupying force, and at least up front it claims to be about preventing civilian losses rather than a regime change (even if one is effectively coming if the rebellion is not stopped). So at least in those terms I would say this is a different situation. But yeah only time will tell how exactly it rolls out. |
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#209 by Jibble This is basically us entering yet another protracted war. I'm not sure this one would be protracted. For now at least the no-fly zone idea has support from the pro-democracy forces, civilians, and the arab league. It's not hard to imagine a senerio where the no-fly zone doesn't work and a deal is struck to simply remove Qaddafi while leaveing the rest to to the National Transitional Council and other arab states. Nice 'easy' restriction to the part we're acctaully good at and a decent sign we don't want to be occupying forces just clean up the cockup we made out of the last two attempts and help out when nessecary and requested. Don't forget garnishes such as: Fish shaped solid waste.
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Air America: call us when you need some shit bombed. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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gotta go with your strengths. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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"It's not hard to imagine a senerio where the no-fly zone doesn't work and a deal is struck to simply remove Qaddafi while leaveing the rest to to the National Transitional Council and other arab states." Until a U.S. plane gets shot down and we decide to invade. Then it's a third shitstorm we have to pay for. "Cool, what kind of dog? I can't wait until I get a bigger house/yard so we can get a dog." A shorkie, shih tzu/yorkie mix. Small, friendly to kids, not to yappy and doesn't eat much. |
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Immediate cease-fire by Qaddafi and his forces. If it is true, that is instant win for the super no-fly zone... "programmers talk from a very deep gnome cavern, full of gold mechanics" - wisdom from the ancients
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I have a shorkie and a shidoodle. They aren't terribly yappy, but more importantly, are about the most kid friendly dogs in the world. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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That's what other owners have told me LP. Lack of smelliness, friendly, lack of yappiness and hypo-allergenic were our four main wants and so far I think the shorkie fits that pretty well. |
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You know that hypoallergenic is a made-up word, right? "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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you know that all words started out as made up words, right? "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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And while it's true there really is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog, it IS true that shorkies do not shred and are fairly safe for those with allergies, as I personally can attest. It does mean, however, they do need haircuts on occasion. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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I think he means that is has no real object. |
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I mean that it's a marketing term meant to sound medical, which can mean whatever the seller wants it to mean. It has no medical definition, therefor anything can be called hypoallergenic and nobody can say it's not. If you say your shampoo is nontoxic it actually means something. If you say it's hypoallergenic it means nothing just like any other marketing words like improved or probiotic. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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I imagine most people know hypoallergenic means "won't make me sneeze," so it's irrelevant if it's a made up marketing term or a medical one, because it's got a meaning to people and has entered the lexicon. It's origins don't matter one whit. In other words...who cares? "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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We need our own version of Twitter called Crapper |
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#228 by LPMiller In other words...who cares? If it does make you sneeze, then it matters. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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Trolly McTroll (#229): We need our own version of Twitter called Crapper What? "One part disembowels me while another slowly eats its way through the gas line. As I bleed out on the floor, it reminds me that I need to buy milk." - Jibble
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it IS true that shorkies do not shred I find this highly unlikely. |
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I know that hypoallergenic is a buzzword hen it comes to dogs. But I also know it must be somewhat accurate for shorkies because my wife has been around them for hours at a tie for no problem, where other dogs make her start gasping for breath and breaking out in hives after a few minutes. So fake word or not, I think we're ok as long as we keep her clean and her hair cut. |
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#233 by jjohnsenSo fake word or not, I think we're ok as long as we keep her clean and her hair cut. Well, she did give birth to your children so that's the least you can do. |
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I want a dog that is hypnoallergenic. Funk. |
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#230 by Shadarr #228 by LPMiller In other words...who cares? If it does make you sneeze, then it matters. But that's kind of the point. For most people with allergies, namely, me, they don't. Maybe a better term is allergy friendly. Will they still affect some people, sure. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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#232 by Gabe it IS true that shorkies do not shred I find this highly unlikely. It's true, shorkies suck at skateboarding. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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Well there go my plans for Youtube fame. Time to find a new breed. |
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Brian Reynolds of Zynga says "Fuck Xbox." |
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We're after a lot of demographic. If I explain what we think is the core magic of social, I think that will explain the relative attraction, or the lens through which we view the relative attraction of different platforms. The thing that seems to make social gaming and networking magical is the fact that all my friends are potentially there and they might see the things that I'm posting or doing or expressing," he began. Translation: people who have an XBox aren't interested in the shitty non-games made by Zynga. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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#239 by m0nty Brian Reynolds of Zynga says "Fuck Xbox." So? <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Zynga is.. interesting. They're mining entertainment dollars from previously unheard of sources, what interest should they have for the niche audience everyone is already catering to. |
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And what he's really talking about when he says "How many of your friends are on XBox Live? 100% are on Facebook" is spam. He's talking about those bullshit "John just sent you a cow in Frontierville" notices that everyone blocks. He's saying there aren't enough of your friends there for their spam-based business model to work. And I for one am crying. But I'm really looking forward to getting texts like that on my phone. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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Fuck Brian Reynolds. He used to write actual games. How you can go over to a company with a genuinely evil business model and still look in the mirror I do not know. It's not like he was desperate for work. "One part disembowels me while another slowly eats its way through the gas line. As I bleed out on the floor, it reminds me that I need to buy milk." - Jibble
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For better or worse it's the new frontier. I'm very conflicted about how I feel about Zynga, super casual Facebook games and their relevance to the future of gaming. |
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I don't hate Zynga, and I don't hate Brian Reynolds. If they want to make Facebook games, well, so be it. It's not going to affect me and the games that I play. It's not like PopCap killed AAA gaming, either. If anything these social games are a bigger threat to the likes of PopCap than the AAA market. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Popcap is great and makes genuinely fun, polished games. What does Popcap have to do with Zynga? BUYBUYBUY
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They both target a similar market, that is people that aren't Gamers but will play some light games. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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A few of us had fun on XBLA last night playing poker. Seemed kind of social... |
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It's a shame Popcap doesn't make games for gamers. I'm sure a lot of gamers would have enjoyed Plants Vs Zombies but I guess none of them could buy it, since it wasn't for them. BUYBUYBUY
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Oh Bob. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Bob's right. Popcap makes actual games for casual gamers. Zynga makes time-wasters for people with OCD or who want to avoid doing work. "I hope you one day decide to smarten the fuck up so I can stand to look at your posts." - gaggle
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The biggest threat to AAA gaming is the publishers putting out AAA games. "One part disembowels me while another slowly eats its way through the gas line. As I bleed out on the floor, it reminds me that I need to buy milk." - Jibble
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Zynga and PopCap are only related in as much as PopCap extended the continuum of gaming once and Zynga extends it even further. To the point where we can have a discussion of whether their products even constitutes games anymore. I recall PopCap starting off pretty bad, garnering no respect from the industry. What if Zynga does a similar thing? And would it be because their products improve or that we grow accustomed to it? |
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Oh gaggle. "One part disembowels me while another slowly eats its way through the gas line. As I bleed out on the floor, it reminds me that I need to buy milk." - Jibble
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Did I phrase that poorly? The implication being PopCap turned that frown upside down, they've made great games now. Couldn't Zynga do the same? Or are you oh'ing me because my avatar picture is so arousing? |
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PopCap didn't start out deliberately ripping off other people's games with the express intention of fleecing the unwary. Zynga were and are morally bankrupt. The only way back would be to fire everyone who works there and start over. "One part disembowels me while another slowly eats its way through the gas line. As I bleed out on the floor, it reminds me that I need to buy milk." - Jibble
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I think PopCap did start off ripping off other games and selling them as their own? I forget the specifics but they were not liked back then. Not as bad as Zynga but I still wanted to draw that parallel. From what I hear of their products are not for me, and their tactics as a company have sounded pretty morally bankrupt. But that's why I found the question interesting to consider. What happens if Zynga starts making games that rely less on Pavlovian responses and more on game mechanics for game mechanic's sake? What examples are there of popular FB games that are not totally dismissed by current gamers? This is where m0nty should drop in with some words.. |
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I don't think you recall popcap's start correctly at all. Zynga is not the next wave of gaming, any more then spam was the next wave of email. It's an offshoot, that will either become respectable (as they certainly have the money to do that), or die (as most start ups eventually do, especially ones so ethically challenged). "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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LP has the right of it. Zynga filled a gap in a system that became incredibly popular. Unless that gap exists in the Next Big Thing™, and Zynga manages to fill it, they will be just another footnote in the Facebook saga. Treefrog, that link was a good read, thanks. "programmers talk from a very deep gnome cavern, full of gold mechanics" - wisdom from the ancients
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