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WHAM, DIABLO III UP THE ISOMETRIC ASS!!!
July 3rd 2008, 04:20 CEST by m0nty Just to keep it all in one place. And by "it" I mean the slobbering fanboiism and the rare sane voice among the mob. |
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Topic: WHAM, DIABLO III UP THE ISOMETRIC ASS!!!
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#1268 by Ergo I can only hope you're either trolling or posting from a lack of experience. Despite stating the opposite, I guess I may have been slightly trolling - not in the usual sense though... more like picking a fight. I was unbelievably drunk (to the point that I'm surprised I was able to type at all) and with me, that sometimes results in arguing things to the very extreme. I've already hurt quite a few people this way over some utter nonsense or other, and there's still no end in sight... it's highly unfortunate. As for my actual opinion on the matter - I still think that a silly top, or Tera being in that game is not something to be hung up about. Games won't get somehow magically better if female characters wore less revealing clothes and/or looked homelier. And respect is seriously overrated. The whole word smacks of forced politeness, of trying to be politically correct and say something 'nice'... fuck that noise. (I would have included men as well, but somehow they seem to have embraced the idea quite readily so it's a lost battle anyway.) If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!
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what, got a problem with strippers? Sure most are flaky,but the mindfuck ones are worth every penny Sabrina Poirier, a student at Pensacola who withdrew in 1997, was disciplined for what is known on the campus as "optical intercourse" — staring too intently into the eyes of a member of the opposite sex. This is also referred to as "making eye babies."
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I don't think pennies suffice to ride the quality ones. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Someone pass along to Gaggle that it's Bago, they're probably magic pennies. MP3 Of The Week: as not sung by Camptown ladies.
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You lead me to watching this. Kinda bizarre, but not completely talent-less. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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n+. Stellar game! I actually booted the 360 for some GTA but ended up playing a bunch of n instead. I noticed OwenButler had dared make a move to unseat me from a couple leaderboards (ep15 & 18 I believe). This was an offense I had to retaliate against. Actually I try to make an effort to be competitive in this one game because.. well I figure I should be in at least one game, everywhere else I'm content with whatever score I end up with. Mad as my skills are though it turns out the best worldwide score I can muster is 269th place (on ep22). My mind boggles. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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N+ really does not seem like your kind of game. Isn't it brutally hard and all about repeatedly replaying levels to master them? "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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Oh, turns out there's cheating going on in the worldwide leaderboards. Well that sucks. Ah well, the friends leaderboards are the fun ones anyway! You're right that it's not my typical game Bob, but I felt like I should make an effort in one game at least. Besides, most people I know don't really like it that much so I get to have my hard-earned highscores mostly to myself. So yeah it is indeed the hard and repetitive gameplay I tend to shy away from, but I do like its simplicity, the graphics, the feel of movement, and the lack of any sort of downtime after dying. And it turns out there's some amount of strategy in it, because of how the scoring works. It's not just about racing through or picking up every gold coin, a tactic has to be worked out and executed on. But really I just wanted one game to act silly competitive in, to see how it felt. It's not really worth it, but as long as no-on really challenges my high-score I get to continue thinking I'm badass at a game. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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And if ya'll can survive another rant I have one more thing to say about the game. It requires a surprising amount of focus. At least for me. There were certain levels (this one in particular!) where it became obvious that I died every time I got unfocused. Even thinking about whether or not I was losing focus made me die. It was like the more I played the more I became aware of that process, and how poor control I have over the things that goes through my mind. It got preetty recursive at one point when I was thinking about writing a post here about this lack of focus, but of course thinking about that made me die. I also randomly had songs popping into my mind along the way, as well as Jibble's fantastic shoe-shitting thread from way back when. I seriously got to thinking that if I could ever learn to control this part of me I'd get to accomplish a lot more.. but then I had to stop considering that to stop dying all the time. You know how the 360 button on the controllers can suddenly start flashing in a pattern? Yeah that also got me killed. Weird brain. This is probably only interesting to me though, so I'll move on. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Still not talking to Gaggle, but if I was then I'd say something along the lines of never trying to get online high scores, especially not in an N game. I'm pretty decent at the old PC one but even on the times when I've really nailed a level I'm still miles off the top guys - it's got a high score playback thing so you can watch their runs and it's frankly sick the stuff they do. I also wish they'd release N+ for the PC, or at least do another one so I'm not just improving my existing times on the old N. MP3 Of The Week: Pete Rodriguez - I Like It Like That.mp3 (?)
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#1279 by Dumdeedum Still not talking to Gaggle Oh. Uh, could someone ask Dum what I did to him? "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Someone remind Gaggle of his unwatched copy of The Big Lebowski. I should do a DKI-style "People who haven't watched TBL" box in my sig - currently it'd contain Hugin, Shadarr and Gaggle. MP3 Of The Week: Pete Rodriguez - I Like It Like That.mp3 (?)
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I also have not seen TBL. |
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I have not seen TBL, either. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Assuming there's anyone left on the site that I can still talk to, could you tell everyone to get their shit together! MP3 Of The Week: Pete Rodriguez - I Like It Like That.mp3 (?)
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I'll get right on that. In other news: I know my tastes are questionable at times (well, all the time) but seriously, Happy Accidents is a very good movie. It's a romantic semi-comedy, with sweet actors, a simple premise, and a whiff of existentialistic pre-destiny. Or, in other words, it involves timetravel. But not in the way you think. Very good. From time to time it had a vibe similar to The Man From Earth, which is quite possibly my favorittest underrated movie of all time. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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The Big Lebowski is streaming on Hulu.com, so you don't even have to rent it. |
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I mean, is it really too much to ask that a female..whatever, soldier/ninja/bounty hunter wear some non ludicrous clothes? How many female characters in video games don't even get to wear pants? (as opposed to some kind of panties/thigh high boots kind of getup) "It's not so bad, it's not like she's naked or anything". What a pathetically low bar. Note to video game producers. This is what a female space marine looks like. This is what a female soldier looks like. Honestly, can we not aspire to that? Has any game sold less copies because they didn't put a blatantly sexualized female character in it? At what point do we say, "Wow, this game is fun...but wouldn't a female ninja with 97% of her porcelain skin exposed be really shitty at stealth?" I know, it's too much to ask. Hollywood has been doing it for years. Meh. Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
Blog. 190 lbs. 10 to go. |
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Women in games and how they are dressed... Tera Patrick joins up with Saints 2? Oh noes, they were going to have such a classy game before that. The lady in the shirt that barely covers her nipples out on some sort adventure? It's stupid. It wouldn't happen, it has no logical reason for being, and it actively detracts from the game. Soul Calibur 4. They appear to be over doing it (LOL), but hopefully won't over shadow it what could be a really good game. The problem is what it's always been. Most of the people designing women characters in games either have the mentality of someone who has never dated and turns to the internet and porn for all of their views on women or they actually are that person. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all games need to be clean or they need to not have busty women in small outfits. That's missing the point. The point is, lets try to step away from that being the norm. Lets try to just have women in games that are dressed rationally, not gussed up like porn stars about ready to do a shoot. That doesn't seem like that much to ask. Nor that much to even expect. "the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
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I did see TBL. Any game where competence can be measured by the amount of clicks per minute is not a strategy game.
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Relevant Link, sorta. |
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The thing that really creeps me out about female character design in games is that somewhere, in some meeting room, there's a group of guys (they have to be guys, come on) discussing this subject over various sketches or renders of their female characters. Based on the results, it's obvious that part of the final decision is based on which sketch is most likely to be taken to the bathroom for some "private time". Ahh, the shared masturbatory fodder of our culture. I shudder to imagine what ends up on the cutting room floor. Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
Blog. 190 lbs. 10 to go. |
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Dum needs to see Princess Bride. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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I've seen TBL multiple times, man. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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#1287 by Jibble Honestly, can we not aspire to that? Has any game sold less copies because they didn't put a blatantly sexualized female character in it? Yes. And the opposite is also true, games have sold more because of a blatant etc. etc. I don't have numbers to support that but I think it's clear that that is the case amongst games. And movies. And comics. And books. And cereal. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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I buy Captain Crunch because I like a man in uniform. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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Alternate quip: I buy Frosted Flakes because I'm a fucking furry. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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They should just license goldstein's appearance for all of 'em. |
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I buy Trix because I'm fucking anti-furry. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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I buy Alpha-Bits because check out that rack on B. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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I buy Count Chocula because oh he's so tortured and sexually ambiguous and oh read my shitty poetry while I cut myself. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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You've got issues, kid. |^^^^^^^^^^^^ |||__
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I had this long rant all written up, but basically I disagree that the popular sexy character designs we get are a direct result of masturbation-prone juvenile workers. Rather I think it's to do with how games are so focused on getting high initial sales, so designs are required to instantly appeal to the perceived audience. The mandate from corporate is probably to add sex to make sure it sells. But I'll spare us all that ranting. Instead I got to wondering how many high-profile positive female characters are out there? Alyx and the girl from Uncharted are the ones that comes to mind. Oh and Jade from BG&E. A quick google tells me Yuma from Final Fantasy could be another? How long can we make the list? "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Alyx sucks. She's a useless character that shamelessly panders to the audience in the exact way the other bimbos do, plus she throws herself at you from the start. She wears tasteful clothes but is still an oversexualized man-magnet. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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gaggle (#1302): I had this long rant all written up, but basically I disagree that the popular sexy character designs we get are a direct result of masturbation-prone juvenile workers. Rather I think it's to do with how games are so focused on getting high initial sales, so designs are required to instantly appeal to the perceived audience. The mandate from corporate is probably to add sex to make sure it sells. You work in games. Do your bosses send out mandates that the girls your games aren't porn star enough looking? Yes, sex sells. No, it's not required. No, every product shouldn't be betting on sex to sell it. Does every movie feel the need to include a mostly naked woman in it? Nope. Not to mention many of the games that are released with ridiculous females obviously aren't required to put them their by their corporate parents (either they don't have them or have it's known they have design control). Can't blame everything on the suits. But I'll spare us all that ranting. Instead I got to wondering how many high-profile positive female characters are out there? Alyx and the girl from Uncharted are the ones that comes to mind. Oh and Jade from BG&E. A quick google tells me Yuma from Final Fantasy could be another? How long can we make the list? That it's this hard to come up with a list beyond four names doesn't seem like a problem to you? "the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
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#1303 by BobJustBob Alyx sucks. She's a useless character that shamelessly panders to the audience in the exact way the other bimbos do, plus she throws herself at you from the start. She wears tasteful clothes but is still an oversexualized man-magnet. This may be so, but the discussion right now is visual design, and in that, at leasy by video game standards, Alyx is very good. Also: link to a big gallery of female videogame characters. "Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
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The problem I see here is in how difficult it is for me to accurately describe my opinion. Because yes I don't exactly agree with you but that doesn't mean I'm in the opposite camp. I do see a problem with how females (but really characters in general) are used in games, and I do want games as a whole to develop. I've mentioned Uncharted countless times as something I perceive as a bit of a shining beacon. Alyx too, but Bob's response makes me so physically tired that I'd rather just skip her as an example. At the center of this is that Underboob lady doesn't make me angry or sad. She's just.. there. She's a product of how the games industry is, she's a product of mass-appeal, and she's a product of our culture that allows females to be aggressive and carry guns and goggles. That's not all bad! Metal bikinis makes me roll my eyes, that's too ridonculous and juvenile, but Underboob Lady just caters to its audience imo. Assuming its genre is a forgetable action-shooter-whatever. And I get it, we disagree on that, it's a matter of perception. Far more annoying to me is the whole porn-actress-signing-event thing for Saint's Row 2, the game's attitude and marketing exudes so much stupid I just can't see past. I almost turned off the first game as the intro was rolling, it was so chock-full of awful wannabe-gangsta' fuckshit. Oh! The Mirror's Edge protagonist. Another for the list? "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Alyx too, but Bob's response makes me so physically tired that I'd rather just skip her as an example. You're saying that I could render you unconscious or even kill you if I find the right set of words? Hmm.... "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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Reading past the mention of my name, WTF gaggle. Saints Row is trash, Warrior Within is trash, but underboob lady is superawesome and you don't know why anyone would have a problem with her. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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gaggle (#1285): From time to time it had a vibe similar to The Man From Earth, which is quite possibly my favorittest underrated movie of all time. I loved that. It were great. Good ending, too. The Big Lebowski was shit, like most Coen films except Raising Arizona and O Brother. The protruding upper halves of the letters now appear, in the local language, to read “Go stick your head in a pig”, and are no longer illuminated, except at times of special celebration.
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A new challenger has appeared! "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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#1308 by BobJustBob Reading past the mention of my name, WTF gaggle. Saints Row is trash, Warrior Within is trash, but underboob lady is superawesome and you don't know why anyone would have a problem with her. Your phrasing is humorously simplifying my opinion. Underboob Lady reminds me of Laura Croft or Mary. Maybe undeservedly, after all I don't know anything about the actual game yet. But from a pure design perspective I think they effectively accomplish the task of generating interest and setting a tone. Neither of these characters do anything to mature the perception of games, but they're still not cringe worthy like I think Gary Busey's endorsements of Saints Row 2 is. The former is designing for an audience, the other a failed attempt at being hip and knowing what it is that is up in the hood. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Oh and cool link Hugin, there are some laughable designs in there heh. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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The Big Lebowski was shit, like most Coen films except Raising Arizona and O Brother. Welcome to Wrongsville. Population: You. |
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McBain (#1313): The Big Lebowski was shit, like most Coen films except Raising Arizona and O Brother. Welcome to Wrongsville. Population: You. Says the mayor of Tired Cliché City. "I buy Captain Crunch because I like a man in uniform." - BobJustBob
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#1304 by Matt Perkins Does every movie feel the need to include a mostly naked woman in it? A lot of shitty ones do. I think a parallel can be drawn here. #1305 by Hugin This may be so, but the discussion right now is visual design, and in that, at leasy by video game standards, Alyx is very good. Actually, I read a pretty good column positing that Alyx is as much a male fantasy as any bimbo, she's just a geek fantasy rather than a frat-boy fantasy. I haven't played HL, but based on what I've read I'd tend to agree. I think Jade from BG&E is a much better female character. Witnesses in the house heard Jones say "why did you pee on me Pooh Bear?" A few moments later, the witness heard the son say "Mama you done stabbed me."
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Which is to say you control Jade, but Alyx is just a supporting character. Big difference, that. I think especially in Ep1 Valve managed to bring a lot of personality forward in Alyx, she maintained an interesting relationship with you. Clearly she's infatuated with Gordon, but there are no boobs or orgasmic facial contortions in sight. But yeah of course she's a fantasy. Of course she's as likeable as possible. Alyx is a character in a story and her role is to please the audience, but the point is she does so without resorting to sex. Her toolkit includes the way she looks at you, her little comments, poses, manners, a whole range of subtler details. Things that any movie can do but are difficult to pull off in CGI. Utilizing that toolkit instead of relying on sex is one way to mature the industry. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Huh that came off almost disagreeing, but I actually meant to say I agree. Jade is a much better female character on account of all the things she gets into. I just meant to say that Alyx can't really develop all the same since she's not controllable. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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TreeFrog (#1309): The Big Lebowski was shit, like most Coen films except Raising Arizona and O Brother. I burst out laughing when I read this. Hoo, boy. Invention is the Green Goblin of Necessary Lemonade.
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#1305 by Hugin Also: link to a big gallery of female videogame characters. No sign of Lula, Ghost, BloodRayne, not even Elexis Sinclaire... huge numbers of DoA / beat 'em up girls though. Seems fairly console-centric. If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!
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