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WHAM, DIABLO III UP THE ISOMETRIC ASS!!!
July 3rd 2008, 04:20 CEST by m0nty Just to keep it all in one place. And by "it" I mean the slobbering fanboiism and the rare sane voice among the mob. |
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Topic: WHAM, DIABLO III UP THE ISOMETRIC ASS!!!
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Ooh, Tom namedropped Pogo on Fidgit for his Qt3 WotLK post. There were a lot of nouns in that sentence. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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Pogo is worth namedropping? Witnesses in the house heard Jones say "why did you pee on me Pooh Bear?" A few moments later, the witness heard the son say "Mama you done stabbed me."
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Tera Patrick is fucking hot. Even now. EOFD. If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!
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California becomes first state to ban trans fats. |
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anaqer (#1203): Tera Patrick is fucking hot. Even now. EOFD. Wrong. On both counts. Witnesses in the house heard Jones say "why did you pee on me Pooh Bear?" A few moments later, the witness heard the son say "Mama you done stabbed me."
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Good for California. One thing though, who else but me laughed when the name Mendoza popped up in the article? I laughed but didn't quite realize why at first. I guess this is a bit of a long association, but Mendoza is the arch nemesis to Simpsons' Ranier Wolfcastle, which connects to Schwarzenegger. So real-life Wolfcastle has a real-life Mendoza to yell at? Heh, that makes me smile. Or am I bago-ing it up too much? "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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The Serious Sam series and Painkiller are essentially the only entries in their own little sub-subgenre of shooters and they were marked out as anomalies before HL2 even came out. They may be Bob's favorite style of shooter (and for the record I quite liked Serious Sam), but they were in no way typical of the industry up till HL2s release. And saying HL2 is the most at fault for whatever has been wrong with shooter genre over the past 5-10 years when it 1. Wasn't a WW2 shooter 2. Wasn't a space marine shooter. 3. Wasn't an objective/team deathmatch based MP oriented shooter. seems laughable to me. "Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
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#1207 by Hugin 2. Wasn't a space marine shooter. Hey now… HL2 is the tallest leaf of grass so I think Bob's fury of hyperbolic lightning just strikes there. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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I have no particular opinion of Tera Patrick, but this discussion reminds me of a book (and exhibition and documentary) I thought was interesting: XXX: 30 Porn Star Portraits by Timothy Greenfield Sanders. It's very simple. He took twin portraits of various people who work or worked in porn, in as close as he could get to the same pose, one wearing clothing and often less or no makeup, and one naked and done up in "porn mode". You can see parts of the image set around the web. It jogged my memory because Tera Patrick is in it and I remember thinking she looked weird in regular clothes, though that may have just been an unfortunate choice of outfit. Bodies aren't what you expect necessarily, even in the case of porn actors where you can see their naked bodies very easily by definition. "Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
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#1208 by gaggle Hey now… HL2 is the tallest leaf of grass so I think Bob's fury of hyperbolic lightning just strikes there. What does that even mean? Whatever HL2 is, whatever flaws it may have, those qualities do not constitute the top three or four "problems" with FPSs in the industry. And it certainly didn't kill off some illusory thriving market of Serious Sam clones. "Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
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zomg nsfw! |
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Generally speaking, you don't need to tag links as nsfw in a discussion about porn. Witnesses in the house heard Jones say "why did you pee on me Pooh Bear?" A few moments later, the witness heard the son say "Mama you done stabbed me."
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#1210 by Hugin What does that even mean? Whatever HL2 is, whatever flaws it may have, those qualities do not constitute the top three or four "problems" with FPSs in the industry. And it certainly didn't kill off some illusory thriving market of Serious Sam clones. Let me clarify: HL2 is the tallest leaf of grass amongst first person shooters, popularity wise. You're right that it doesn't represent a break in games where suddenly FPS' became linear, but it's just a popular game of a type Bob doesn't like and that's why he calls it out as Worst Blahblah Blah. Well that's how I see it. Apologies to Bob for coming off condescending and/or presumptuous again, but his extreme hyperbole of late makes it difficult for me to give a damn about his posts. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Bob is the new joker. |
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And maybe the old joker, as well. |
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There is no hyperbole here. Stop saying that. The two biggest problems with modern FPSes are 1) too much scripting and 2) too linear. HL2 is the poster child for both of these flaws. gaggle: Speaking of you being wrong, everyone knows about Mendoza, and NOT good for California. The fucking nanny state is a bad fucking thing. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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Tera Patrick? Couldn't they get someone hot? I find her to be plenty hot. Invention is the Green Goblin of Necessary Lemonade.
--Flowers |
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I don't think that Volition/Saints Row 2 is sending the perception of games back a few years. SC4's buxom characters are worse. Plus that image Hugin linked in IRC from some game that I forget. Way worse. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Shadarr (#1212): Generally speaking, you don't need to tag links as nsfw in a discussion about porn. Hugin asked in IRC if he needed to tag the post. I was making a cross-stream joke. |
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I find her to be plenty hot. She hasn't made a good movie in a long time. |
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#1218 by CheesyPoof I don't think that Volition/Saints Row 2 is sending the perception of games back a few years. SC4's buxom characters are worse. Plus that image Hugin linked in IRC from some game that I forget. Way worse. You're probably talking about Damnation., with ridiculous underboob lady. "Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
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Yes, that would be the one. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Wow, that's ridiculous. |
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She hasn't made a good movie in a long time. Whatever. I personally think she's quite beautiful. Invention is the Green Goblin of Necessary Lemonade.
--Flowers |
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Whatever. I personally think she's quite beautiful. As the great Dan Hedeya said in the brilliant first ten minutes of "Joe Vs. The Volcano" (an otherwise terrible movie): "I'm not arguing that with you!" |
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Joe vs. the Volcano is a fantastic movie. "The best experiences are generative experiences. The best stories are player stories." - Will Wright
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The only part of the movie worth anything is the first segment at Joe's place of employment. |
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joe vs is an ok movie that actually gets better with repeated viewings. But it does not get great. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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BobJustBob (#1216): There is no hyperbole here. Stop saying that. Right after you stop hyperbolising. There's often a decent discussion to be had around the points you raise, but you kill it off from the get-go by conflating (your) opinion and fact. I'd be slightly more inclined to agree if you'd blamed HL1, as I really don't have time for linear FPSes any more. I thought the HL2 scripting was fine. Yes, hyperbolising is now a word. The protruding upper halves of the letters now appear, in the local language, to read “Go stick your head in a pig”, and are no longer illuminated, except at times of special celebration.
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And a good word at that. I actually recall HL1 as the superior realization of an immersive linear fps. You weren't slowed down in HL1, there were no inescapable cutscenes of people talking for several minutes at a time. It's not that HL2 is a step backwards, because they manage so much more storytelling in it, but at the same time I don't really want future games to emulate HL2 more than they have to. By all means copy Valve's fantastic production qualities, copy the visually pleasing aesthetics and their focus on characters. But someone needs to come up with a more interesting way to tell a game story than locking your character in a room with people obliviously talking to you even when you run around in circles at full speed. I think in that regard HL1 actually did pretty good, it was still linear but at least you just ran and ran and saw new shit all the time. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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And just for the record I love HL2, Ep1 in particular. But I can still see its inherent design flaws (well, some of them anyway) "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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The linearity is a different issue all together imo. It's not really a problem per se, it shouldn't be "solved" by implementing freeform everywhere. I like to think of linearity as something mappable to a curve. On the one end is, like, Oblivion, Dwarf Fortress, that new Farcry 2. Then a little bit further down is, say, Stalker. On the other side sits MoH: Airborne, and then maybe Halo 3 and so on and so forth, until the very extreme right where HL2 and its ilk lies. In that context I too have grown tired of HL2's linearity, but that doesn't mean I want every game to snap to the other extreme! I want the whole spectrum available, there's no Holy Grail magic bullet solution on the curve and each position has its merit. Except, yes, the far right. It just becomes too much of a movie there. Have you tried the mod Minerva? It's difficult to explain, but I feel it took the problematic linearity of HL2 and opened it up a lot. It's not at all free roaming, it's maybe somewhere around Airborne. On the Linearity Curve it's really just a tiny shift to the left, but everything became so much better for it. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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I tried it, but couldn't be bothered finishing the first release. I got, I dunno, halfway in and discovered that I couldn't get any further with the tiny amount of health and ammunition I had left. Making progress would mean going so far back I might as well have restarted, and given the limited fun I'd had so far it wasn't worth the effort. It was just get ammo+ health - pitched battle - get ammo+health - repeat ad nauseam. I never understood why it was feted as best SP mod evar. Riot Act was much better, albeit linear. The protruding upper halves of the letters now appear, in the local language, to read “Go stick your head in a pig”, and are no longer illuminated, except at times of special celebration.
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#1221 by Hugin You're probably talking about Damnation., with ridiculous underboob lady. I don't think that's as eye-rollingly bad as the marketing of RWS or Volition at all. Sexy females in games aren't automatically bad, just as it ain't bad when the men are pumped manly Gods. I agree it's not exactly maturing the perception of games but I don't think it's hurting it either. There's room for this and more mature titles, but some games are escapist entertainment and fantasies work great in that context. Whereas I do mind Dead or Alive's attitude because it literally is a game just about the breasts, that's the point where it becomes too juvenile even for me. But I don't get that sense from the underboob screenshot, from the sounds of it it's an action shooter game with no particular booby focus *shrug* "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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#1233 by TreeFrog It was just get ammo+ health - pitched battle - get ammo+health - repeat ad nauseam. I never understood why it was feted as best SP mod evar. Y'know I had actually had a lot of trouble at first, until I realized something the author had written somewhere: That you should consider retreating at times. That's a deeper point than one might consider at first. It's really what made the non-linearity for me. Because I remember storming up some hill to meet a bunch of marines in turrets and foxholes. They'd throw grenades that kept landing near me and at best I'd barely survive killing them only to die in the next encounter. HOWEVER. Once I started retreating it made sense. So I'd meet the guys behind their forcefields and turrets and, well, run away. Find an alternative route. Suddenly I was behind them, their forcefields were useless, their grenades far more ineffective because I was in an elevated position, and things started were in my advantage. That's when I started thinking of the mod in terms of brilliance. He had actually designed the level so the AI would be really effective from one angle but not another. It wasn't scripted, he just managed to squeeze that out of the system. And the alternative route I could find wasn't some obvious door that only opened when I retreated, it was there all along and I knew it was there, but it just weren't the first path. He toyed with my assumption that forward is always the right way, and I think it worked great. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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HOLY POSTING SPREE BATMAN! "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Minerva was boring. I liked the atmosphere of the early areas, but later on... it reminded me pretty much of Kona's less inspired missions for Quake 2. If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!
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you need to stop being a 60 year old man. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" - "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
"LP, your big balls are a religion." - Jibble |
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But it's so much fun! If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate!
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Caryn (#1168): You expected more from the guys making Saints Row 2? Do worry about the message the Postal guys are sending to our kids too? I don't think that's as eye-rollingly bad as the marketing of RWS or Volition at all. Sexy females in games aren't automatically bad, just as it ain't bad when the men are pumped manly Gods The point being, in this case, is that the rest of the game isn't supposed to be all Laura Crofted, from what I've heard, and here we have a chick in the impossible shirt...that she will adventure in and so on. It's silly and stupid. That's about twice as offensive as Fat Princess could ever be imo. "the concept that a happy worker is a productive worker is hardly an entry from Matt's Big Book Of Things The Fairies Said." - Dum
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Fat Princess? Is it offensive? I guess we'll see when it comes out Matt, but from brief googling it sounded like yet another Gears of War / Dark Sector / Area 51 blahblahblah. I roll my eyes at RWS employing a has-been in an attempt to promote pissing and shitting, I roll my eyes at the lameness of Gary Busey trying to act hip and awkwardly telling me to think a game rocks, but a sexy lady in a non-descript shooter? If she was naked or had boobs the size of watermelons you'd be on to something, if she was pulling up her shirt to confuse enemies there'd be a case. But so far all I've seen is a sexy lady, just like Gears of War portrays ultra-masculine men. Both are silly, and you won't find me applauding their efforts in maturing the industry, but I don't see it put to the same level of, well, the shit Volition is pulling. But again I guess we'll see when we learn more from the game *shrug*. Regardless of us agreeing it's an interesting line we're drawing here, of just when something turns silly and stupid. Uncharted: Drake's Fortune had some pretty good designs right? I haven't played the full version but it seemed pretty mature to me, design-wise. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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Gaggle, the difference is being all muscular, realistically or not, is entirely compatible with themes of conflict, survival, etc. It may be a fantasy, but it's a fantasy that fits the environment. Female characters in the same dangerous environment, expected to deal with the same dangers, are instead set up like strippers or lingerie models. Also I think it's a sad commentary on how distorted the images of women in the media and video games are that you think the size of the breasts of the model in Damnation act as an argument in favor of reasonableness, because they're the size of cantaloupes instead of watermelons. I mean, is it really too much to ask that a female..whatever, soldier/ninja/bounty hunter wear some non ludicrous clothes? How many female characters in video games don't even get to wear pants? (as opposed to some kind of panties/thigh high boots kind of getup) "It's not so bad, it's not like she's naked or anything". What a pathetically low bar. "Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
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I know Tara Patrick from the Howard Stern show, but haven't actually seen what she looks like. Isn't she pretty old? |
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Is 32 old? I guess it might be for porn. |
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#1244 by G-Man nce is being all muscular, realistically or not, is entirely compatible with themes of conflict, survival, etc. It may be a fantasy, but it's a fantasy that fits the environment. Female characters in the same dangerous environment, expected to 32 is ancient. |
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weird. greasemonkey is broken. I clicked on the quote button on gmans post. Let's see if it works this time. #1244 by G-Man Is 32 old? I guess it might be for porn. Huh. |
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Like I said G-Man, I've never seen her. I was just going by the things said on a radio show. I guess I should take into account that they see 18-year-old strippers a couple of times a week. |
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#1242 by Hugin the difference is being all muscular, realistically or not, is entirely compatible with themes of conflict, survival, etc. It may be a fantasy, but it's a fantasy that fits the environment. Oh. Hm. That's now the conclusion I draw from various games. They just want something that sells, and for men that's manly action power and for women that means sexy. I see your point though, and in that frame it really is redonkulous outfits girls generally get to wear. The female lead in Uncharted struck me as an outright positive evolution in this regard, a sensible female dressed and behaving as befitting her context. But I guess we disagree that that's a bar games in general ought to reach. I see Underboob as a design that's sexy and functional, heavy on the sex, and that doesn't annoy me in and of itself. I'm reminded of Tomb Raider, with its sily blend of sexy and functional. But TR doesn't make me roll my eyes, it's just.. silly fun, an escapist fantasy game. It's an interesting balance, this topic. Because something like.. Warrior Within's metal bikini babe (actual image) had me rolling my eyes the second I saw it. Coupled with the game's condescending superficial shallowness I was revolted at that character design. Ugh. *shrug* "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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You seriously think her top is "functional", assuming a game where she's going to be running around doing actiony stuff? What exactly stops it from flipping up and her boobs from flipping out approximately three seconds after she starts running, or bends over? And why would anyone deliberately come to a gunfight type situation with their boobs half hanging out? I mean, come on gaggle, you're halfway to sanity here, take the last few steps. That's an outfit for a background dancer in a music video, not anyone who is going to be in combat. "Bioshock, sadly, is no Painkiller." - BobJustBob
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I think I've made it clear that I consider her outfit silly, like I do Tomb Raider. I wrote "sexy and functional, heavy on the sex", and I meant that to indicate that it's clearly a silly fantasy outfit meant to instantly appeal to men. But the line I'm trying to define is that it's not, y'know, a metal bikini or huge 40 tripple D's bouncing around or a face smeared with makeup and always showing sultry orgasms. You think that's setting the bar too low and that's cool, we can disagree on that. I think the design shows a sexy female scifi soldier in an outfit that's cleary silly and frivolous but it doesn't outright insult me. Again I don't consider it anything that furthers the way the public perceives games, it more like keeps a status quo I guess. I had hoped not to come off as too insane with this point but maybe that's doomed for failure. Intarwebs fora talk in difficult are. "You can produce nuclear reactions directly through ultra high electric field initiated photodisintegration."
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