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Dr. Strangem0nty: How I learned to stop bitching and love the sports
February 19th 2008, 23:50 CET by Greg Cricket sucks! Football rules! Moar sports! This was made in response to his post that the NFL season was over, so here's a new sports topic. |
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Topic: Dr. Strangem0nty: How I learned to stop bitching and love the sports
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Yot, I hope you have fun watching the game, but man, I'd be really unhappy with the Suns right now. |
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McBain- Don't worry, there are plenty of people here who feel the same way you do. If you would have watched the game last night, you would have seen that Shaq is going to be fine. |
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Maybe Shaq will help sell tickets more than actual wins would. Isn't the management and ownership of sports franchises all about making money ultimately? |
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No, the Suns have had 100 straight sellouts. They didn't bring him here for tickets, they brought him here to counter Tim Duncan. |
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If it's all about making money, then WTF is Isiah still doing with the Knicks? <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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That's what I want to know. How does he still have a job? |
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You're assuming the Suns could get equal (statistical) value for Marion anywhere else. Everyone knew he was unhappy and they've been shopping him for over a year. He had an (essentially) expiring contract, and it was almost certain he was going to skip out in the offseason due to his unhappiness and their inability to afford an extension for him, so staying pat wasn't a viable option. I'd bet that with Gasol off the table there wasn't much left out there for Marion. You could argue Gasol or Ron Artest as better fits, but apparently Memphis' GM smokes crack, and Artest is selling high right now. With this trade you're at least getting rid of Marcus Banks' horrible contract, and have an outside shot at Shaq getting healthy and becoming a presence again for Nash's waning years. It's obviously not as good as the Pau Gasol trade (what is?), and they've pretty much acknowledged it's a huge gamble and not equal value, but they're at least trying something to get past the hump before going into the books with all the other almost great teams. |
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Maybe Shaq will help sell tickets more than actual wins would. Isn't the management and ownership of sports franchises all about making money ultimately? A valid point. |
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You're assuming the Suns could get equal (statistical) value for Marion anywhere else. No. I'm assuming they could have gotten someone who produces more wins than in *average* player, which is what Shaq does. |
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No. I'm assuming they could have gotten someone who produces more wins than in *average* player, which is what Shaq does. Like who? Shawn Marion makes something like $17 million this season. What sort of package of stellar win producers is out there made up of players who can match that salary, that a team would be willing to part with? I mean, it would be nice if they could get Lamar Odom and Luke Walton for example, but that's not going to happen. Only one I can see happening in a quick survey, that matches up salary wise, is Kirelenko and a 2-4 million dollar Utah reserve, and even that's iffy. |
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I like how, in football and stuff that ends with -ball (e.g. basketball), there's always a bunch of roided-out gangly folk who are always trying to like, get the ball from the guy and stuff. |
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McBain obviously thinks quality big men grow on trees and that teams are willing to part with them. And McB, that's cool that you like to crunch numbers and stuff. It can be fun. Just remember, though, that 'statistically' speaking, your '19-0' book should have been sent to you by now. It doesn't always happen. |
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McBain obviously thinks quality big men grow on trees and that teams are willing to part with them. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying Shaq's production is abysmal, its a horrible trade, even considering salary. The Sun's should take an average big man just because "quality big men don't grow on trees". You're being crazy. t can be fun. Just remember, though, that 'statistically' speaking, your '19-0' book should have been sent to you by now. It doesn't always happen. You're being an asshole now, and for no good reason. Fuck you you fucking fucking fuck. |
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Aww, poor McBain. |
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McBain- When did you turn into FoRmaT? I've never seen you act like such a pussy. |
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Fuck you, cunt. |
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And I think eggbert explained everything pretty concisely. There's nothing more I can add. You're thinking of the Suns in terms of the 2004-2007 teams, and I'm telling you, they're not the same. Honestly, they're probably not going to win it this year, either. |
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Seriously, man, what's up? |
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I dunno, but I watched the final two minutes of XLII the other night and it's still awesome. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Shaq's production speaks for itself. Its a terrible trade. He's an average player and next year he'll be below average. The best move would have been no move... if the argument is who else was avaible, then the answer is "don't trade". |
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I guess if it was on the other end I'd still be sore. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Seriously, man, what's up? What do you mean? You bring up an obviously sore spot in a completely unrelated fashion that doesn't respond to me in any meaningful way? Oh, and big surprise, its annoying! |
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I guess if it was on the other end I'd still be sore. No shit? |
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Well, again, they weren't going to win with Shawn Marion, so why not roll the dice? I didn't run out and buy a Shaq jersey and proclaim us the team to beat, but I don't think it's a bad shot. |
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I don't know whats worse, losing the Super Bowl like that, or the blow out the Giants got back in 2000. There's something to be said of the blowout putting your team out of their misery quickly to somewhat soften the punch. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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What do you mean? You bring up an obviously sore spot in a completely unrelated fashion that doesn't respond to me in any meaningful way? Oh, and big surprise, its annoying![/url] Unrelated. Again, if we look at the stats and numbers (which you were doing), the Pats should have won by 30. I wasn't doing it to pick on you, I was pointing out that then numbers don't always tell the whole story. I mean, hell, the Heat are 0-4 in games Marion has played in. Does that mean anything (other than the Heat are really shitty)? |
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Well, again, they weren't going to win with Shawn Marion, It's completely bewildering to me that you're so convinced of this. |
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Urk. What do you mean? You bring up an obviously sore spot in a completely unrelated fashion that doesn't respond to me in any meaningful way? Oh, and big surprise, its annoying! Unrelated? Again, if we look at the stats and numbers (which you were doing), the Pats should have won by 30. I wasn't doing it to pick on you, I was pointing out that then numbers don't always tell the whole story. I mean, hell, the Heat are 0-4 in games Marion has played in. Does that mean anything (other than the Heat are really shitty)? |
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Yot, this is one of those instances where you make me think you don't really understand how statistics work. |
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McB- Again, you said you've seen SOME Suns games this year. I've seen MOST. Marion, for all the good he does, has some serious holes. He can't create his own shot. He takes too many ill-advised threes. He has a history of disappearing in the playoffs. And he's been a locker room issue for the past three years. He's not content being #3. He's rather be #2 on a 9 win team than the number #3 option on a contender. |
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Oh, I know how statistics work. I also know that in sports, there are many other factors that cancel them out. |
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He clearly doesn't. Remember those gambling odds discussions? |
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Again, you said you've seen SOME Suns games this year. I've seen MOST. It's as if actually watching the games some how changes the production of the players were talking about. You and Joe Morgan should get a room. Marion, for all the good he does, has some serious holes. He can't create his own shot. He takes too many ill-advised threes. His win production is fucking great. He has a history of disappearing in the playoffs. Small sample size. Similar to Super Bowls and Yankees/A-Rod series in that way. And he's been a locker room issue for the past three years. I'm not sure what that has to do with his win production, which is awesome. I'm mostly concerned with what happens on the basketball court. |
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Then again, most people don't understand probability/statistics. Remember Jibble and the sample size wars of 2006? |
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I think this sums it all up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ij738Q-wWmk |
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So what are you up to these days, G-Man? You never talk about yourself. "I don't like story in games." - Soren Johnson
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What about mitigating factors of the team surrounding the player in basketball? Baseball is very much and individual sport WRT batting and pitching, but I don't know/care enough about basketball to know if there is any normalization for the team around the player. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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I know enough about probability and statistics to know they are boring as hell. My wife took a business statistics course and I thought that I could get into the text, but, ugh, no. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Eli Manning is a pretty fucking bad QB statistically speaking, probably worse than Kurt Warner. |
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He was pretty good during the playoffs though. A bunch of touchdowns and no INT's (that were his fault). <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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McBain- We obviously don't look at sports the same way. His win production might be great, but ultimately, it resulted in 0 rings. This team was stagnant, and you could SEE IT. We've won 3 straight Pacific division titles, and that's it. This team was not going to go any farther the way it was. You might think the numbers show otherwise, but again, they don't tell the whole story. |
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We obviously don't look at sports the same way. I don't think there is much of anything we observe about the world similarly. |
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And BTW, I do appreciate Shawn Marion and everything he brought to the team. The simple fact is that he didn't to be third fiddle to Nash and Amare, he asked to be traded in the preseason, and he was going to ask for Dwayne Wade money to resign here (3 years, $60 mil). He was here for nine years, and it was time for a change. |
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I don't think there is much of anything we observe about the world similarly. Thank goodness for that. |
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But when you watch sports and you can SEE IT!!!! that's much more convincing. |
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I like how McBain thinks athletes are robots. |
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SEE IT!!!! |
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BobJustBob said in #58: So what are you up to these days, G-Man? You never talk about yourself. Huh? Oh, I see your plan. Yes, let us combine forces in taking over the sports thread. Nothing much. Still working the same job. I recently moved though - nothing so drastic as you - just a few blocks away into a nicer apartment. I have been playing a lot of indie games lately as you may have observed. I am planning a vacation in a few months (not sure where to go yet), and then I have a trip to Montana coming up for a friend's wedding. Gonna go to Yellowstone Park for a few days while I am in the area. |
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Yup. Personally, it's much more meaningful to observe things with your own eyes than by breaking down box scores. I don't want to watch a game with a stat sheet and a calculator by my side. |
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Speaking of sports, my brother is supposed to come over this weekend and we were going to the new Prudential arena to watch the Devils and Islanders, but now it looks like we're going to get out first snow storm of the year. I suppose my wife and I can take the train, but fucking figures that the weather will fuck things up. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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