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E3 is Dead! Long Live E3!
July 9th 2007, 20:04 CEST by Hugin E3 on PC, the booth babes are gone, but the sweet funk of gamer excitement remains! It this the point where PS3 begins to turn things around? Will Nintendo bring anything of real excitement to the hardcore to the table, or will it just be all casual and party games? Will Halo 3 be awesome, or super awesome? Will Killzone 2 actually live up to the debut trailer? Any titles you're looking forward to seeing? What game will be best in show, as far as you're concerned? Which company will have the best overall showing? Discuss it here! |
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Topic: E3 is Dead! Long Live E3!
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I'd like to go to WDW. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Who's saying anything about undercutting them? Price matching seems resonable, as JJohnsen pointed out. It's ludicrous to say that retailers can 'demand' anything of Steam. Is there a law, precedent, or some kind of agreement that has been made that allows retailers this kind of control over digital distribution channels? If so, please provide me some links to back up this claim. |
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Is there a law, precedent, or some kind of agreement that has been made that allows retailers this kind of control over digital distribution channels? "If you sell it for cheaper via Steam, we'll stop carrying your products in our retail stores." You don't need a law to put pressure on a company. Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
Blog. 203 lbs. 23 to go. |
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...and seeing their sales, they decide fair competition is not enough, so they undercut Steam. |
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"Next Page" should totally be in <blink> tags. #1604 was re: to #1600 |
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Yeah, those three preceding posts totally made yours read like nonsense. |
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"If you sell it for cheaper via Steam, we'll stop carrying your products in our retail stores." This is even more pressure when you consider that most revenue will be from the 360 version and they wouldn't want them to not carry that. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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#1606 by Shadarr I don't need any preceeding posts for that! |
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WTF. Who is saying anything about offering the game on Steam for less, cheaper, undercut, or whatever fucking word you guys will use next? Competitive pricing is just that, and does not require selling the product for less. If there is some supar sekret handshake agreement between retailers and publishers, to where the kind of impropriety exists like you people are saying, then Steam should be in court right now and cut the legs out from under this kind of shitfuckery. Else I can see consumer lawsuits over this kind of shit. |
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Else I can see consumer lawsuits over this kind of shit. Huh? It's a free market, don't like the price shop around. It's not exactly uncommon knowledge that one of Best Buy or Circuit City have big releases on sale within a week or two of release it not the release itself. <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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Huh? It's a free market Explain to me how the fuck it can be a free market when, if what people here say is true, that retailers wont lets Steam sell the product for what they want due to some apparent "behind the scenes" pressure on publishers...?? I do know this; I will -not- be using Steam anymore as far as initial availability is concerned. So they lose my money in this case. I'm not about to pay more(in the future) for something when I can get a tangible copy for less at retail. |
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lets=let* |
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Explain to me how the fuck it can be a free market when, if what people here say is true, that retailers wont lets Steam sell the product for what they want due to some apparent "behind the scenes" pressure on publishers...?? Because the publishers are free to charge more to sell it to steam than to EB. And you're free not to buy it from Steam. |
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And retailers are free to sell or not sell what they want. Assuming, of course, they're not colluding behind the scenes with each other. |
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Because the publishers are free to charge more to sell it to steam than to EB EB is selling the PC version for the same exact price as Steam. |
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Assuming, of course, they're not colluding behind the scenes with each other. And yet, that's exactly what a few people here are hinting at, yet wont backup with any hard facts. |
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I think the agreement is assumed by people, there aren't any real hard facts as far as I know. Whatever the reason is, it's pretty much why I haven't bought anything from Steam. I guess I fit squarely in the "value aware consumer" hole, but everything I've wanted to buy from steam I could find cheaper at a store so I bought from there. Half-Life 2 I got $10 off, Episode 1 I got for $8 total, Psychonauts I got for $20 when they were charging $30+, etc. Prices start out slightly higher then the discounted retail versions, and the gap grows as the games get older and they hang on to MSRP. |
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Brad Wardell has made some comments about the situation over at Qt3. How retailers wouldn't allow the game to be cheaper online and how they wouldn't allow it to be sold earlier online (when the game went gold vs. when the box shipped to stores). "Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
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Does it suck? Absolutely. But you might as well pay for a Fileplanet subscription and then complain about how Fileplanet locks stuff behind their paid subscriptions. The only reason they can keep doing it is because you keep supporting it. "Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
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#1619 by BobJustBob Does it suck? Absolutely. But you might as well pay for a Fileplanet subscription and then complain about how Fileplanet locks stuff behind their paid subscriptions. The only reason they can keep doing it is because you keep supporting it. But there's the rub, how does your analogy work? Are you supporting the evil retailers by supporting Steam now or waiting for Steam to get a grip and make their pricing competitive? Support Steam now and send a message to retailers that online is here to stay. But also that it's okay to charge more for less, and for Valve and its publishers giving in to retail pressure. Don't support Steam and let the forerunner of online distribution flutter in the wind, and retailers can point to that and say online sucks, we'll do this our way. "…a four-dimensional real vector space equipped with a nondegenerate, symmetric bilinear form."
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Steam can't make their pricing competitive. The publishers will lose much less money by dumping Steam than by dumping retailers. And Steam can't change that until they're big enough to dictate terms to publishers the way retailers can, and the only way that will happen is by supporting Steam now. Oh, I'm absolutely certain that Steam will start screwing us as soon as they have the ability to do so. It's the way of business. But I'd rather get screwed in the way that doesn't involve a trip to the store. "Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
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Brad Wardell has made some comments about the situation over at Qt3. How retailers wouldn't allow the game to be cheaper online and how they wouldn't allow it to be sold earlier online (when the game went gold vs. when the box shipped to stores). Your take on this is obviously different from mine, as he implicitly states that they are contractually bound to offer the game at a certain price even though it can be gotten cheaper elsewhere. Entering into a contract is far removed from being pressured by a publisher who is driven by fear of backlash by the retail sector when setting price points. |
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I don't know what the hell you're saying anymore. "Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
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I'm not sure why Mank is so puzzled/outraged by this. It's not like it started happening yesterday. Nintendo and virtually all console makers have been doing this for years. It's the reason why you never see consoles sold for less than MSRP. You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religions. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough. --Aldous Huxley
DVDs |
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It's the first rule of capitalism: cheat. MP3 Of The Week: should I just put this thing out of its misery?
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It's not really cheating. It's actually pretty benign and normal business dealings. You have avenues of distribution that you'd like to utilize, and people (companies, whatever) that control those avenues. If you want to do business with them, you get together with all your lawyers and you hash out a deal. Sometimes that deal includes exclusive releasing, sometimes that deal includes agreements that you're not going to screw over the distributor by undercutting prices through another distributor. The only reason you're complaining is that they came to an agreement that's beneficial to both retailers and Valve, but not the consumer. Retailers get to charge their prices, secure in the knowledge that they won't be undercut by an online distribution model that would cut them (and their profits) out of the loop. Valve gets extra money because they're not discounting the software through Steam. Don't like it? Don't buy from Steam. Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
Blog. 203 lbs. 23 to go. |
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It does benefit me, because I don't have to get off my ass to get the game if I don't want to. I don't have to try and rush home from bumfuck Shakopee, in hopes I get to a store that hasn't sold out or worse, hasn't gotten their stock yet. Personally, I'm more then willing to pay more for the ability to not give a shit. I personally could care that it would be available for me to play till 3, since I won't be home till 6 anyway. "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
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You know most stores have telephones these days, you can call ahead to see if they have something, even have them set aside a copy for you. |
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Shit, that sounds super convenient. I'll call the nearest game story, over forty minutes away, and queue that right up! |
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Yea, and the cocksucker big box stores won't even let you online order either! <Hugin_len> Basically, cheesy doesn't have awful taste in music, he's simply very white.
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#1627 by LPMiller It does benefit me, because I don't have to get off my ass to get the game if I don't want to. I don't have to try and rush home from bumfuck Shakopee, in hopes I get to a store that hasn't sold out or worse, hasn't gotten their stock yet. Personally, I'm more then willing to pay more for the ability to not give a shit. I personally could care that it would be available for me to play till 3, since I won't be home till 6 anyway. And then you don't get a physical copy or anything. I see it as a fair trade-off. |
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I'd pay a little extra to NOT waste the cardboard, plastic, and even fossil fuels burned to cart the thing to store. |
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A physical copy is a minus, not a plus. It's a postponed errand sitting there waiting to annoy you. "Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
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I agree... with Bob. |
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It does benefit me I was speaking from a cost perspective, but I can see where there's an added convenience. The point was simply that people (myself included) bitch all the time about things that are perfectly aboveboard and legal as if someone was sitting in a corporate board room eating babies and raping children. Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
Blog. 203 lbs. 23 to go. |
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How about eating babies after raping them? "Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
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That's a little too close to snowballing for me. |
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#1633 by BobJustBob A physical copy is a minus, not a plus. It's a postponed errand sitting there waiting to annoy you. Yeah, but in my case the errand might be "Sell on eBay when done with it." |
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Yeah, but in my case the errand might be "Sell on eBay when done with it." Or, at the least, take it back to where you probably bought it cheaper and trade it in for credit towards a new release. |
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As long as it doesn't have a CD key. Then it's yours forever. "Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
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Where are CD keys stored in Steam, Bob? |
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I assume I'm set up for some sort of quip, but here goes: Steam doesn't use CD keys. "Games are not novels, and the ways in which they harbor novelistic aspirations are invariably the least interesting thing about them." - Steven Johnson
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Who trades in PC games around you guys? No one does around me anymore... My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in
"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo |
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I sell mine on eBay or Amazon Marketplace. |
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I Ebay mine, same with my Xbox, DS and Wii games. It helps me with my habit. |
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Half.com for me. I can usually get $30-$40 for a relatively new game. Works well to support the habit. Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
Blog. 203 lbs. 23 to go. |
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#1631 by jjohnsen And then you don't get a physical copy or anything. I see it as a fair trade-off. You can still burn the steam cache to a DVD though, right? 'We run a pretty tight ship around here.' 'With a pool table?' 'It's a gaming ship.'
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And then you don't get a physical copy or anything. I see it as a fair trade-off. Don't need a copy. I've lost my harddrive and backups, installed steam, and boom, there they are. Why waste media? "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
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Anything you've downloaded from Steam can be backed-up on a DVD, so it's really a moot point. You never see animals going through the absurd and often horrible fooleries of magic and religions. Only man behaves with such gratuitous folly. It is the price he has to pay for being intelligent but not, as yet, intelligent enough. --Aldous Huxley
DVDs |
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I personally could care that it would be available for me to play till 3, since I won't be home till 6 anyway. But it won't be ready for you at 6. Because that's when you'll restart Steam and download the rest of the game. The game that you probably thought you were pre-loading last week. |
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