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What about web games?
May 24th 2007, 15:55 CEST by Gunp01nt First off, let’s get some facts and figures. Runescape reportedly has 9 million active accounts. OGame (spiritual successor of Planetarion) has 2 million. But people who have played these games will know that they’re far from AAA quality we’re used to on our l33t gaming machines. Yet these games attract lots of players. Maybe because they’re free, maybe because they’re available on any computer with a browser and don’t require a shiny new console or gaming PC. Who can say for sure? Well, maybe the proprietors of pioneering web game Planetarion. When they were forced to start charging for accounts after the dot com crash, their userbase dropped to an estimated few thousands. So does that mean the web isn’t a platform where money can be made? I don’t think so. Let’s restate the obvious and well-known advantages of the web: - Accessible almost everywhere thanks to the ubiquity of internet connections - Always up-to-date - Web pages can look good without requiring fast client hardware. That’s how the information web was sold to consumers 10 years ago. Now apply these advantages to the position of game developers, who increasingly go for a multi-platform release to maximize profit. There are two free web browsers for the Wii, one for the PS3 and apparently they’re all somewhat Web 2.0 friendly. That creates the possibility of bringing rich web games to a very wide audience.* It’s surprising that games like OGame and Planetarion fail to make use of AJAX and other staples of Web 2.0, especially considering games seem like one of the few places where the excessive level of interaction and activity offered by AJAX is justified. Addition of these things could bring web games to a higher level of interactivity and UI and make them more appealing to a wide circle of users. What we need next is a solid business model. These days, ads just won’t cut it and would deteriorate the perceived quality of web games anyway. But as the many subscriber MMORPGs have shown, people are willing and able to pay for a game service if it’s good enough. Other options could be a fantasy sports approach: picture a space strategy game where people can start and run their own game universes for a fee. That’s just one example. What do you think, could subscription based web games work on a larger scale? Will the increasing presence of browsers on consoles open up a wider audience? (* Arguably, console owners usually have a PC for internet purposes and are more likely to use that for web games. That, or their work PC’s) |
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Topic: What about web games?
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I'll admit it...until this very point, I've blown off web only games as money losers and a hobby type thing only, not a business. So, with that thought in mind, how many of the subscribers Runescape claims, for instance, are paying subscribers? They appear to have a free and a pay service... Does anyone play any here play any of these games? Or have friends that do? The last web only game I played is Desktop Tower Defense on Kongregate... Though I did just sign up to Runescape because now I'm all curious. My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in
"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo |
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To go further on this idea though... why would I play a web only game from anywhere but work? When I'm home I can run games with better graphics, more features, full screen, etc. Is there a web game out there that competes on the level of a good regular PC game? I still see web games as diversionary tactics while at work, not something I'm going to log into at home. My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in
"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo |
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Jagex's popular browser-based MMORPG RuneScape has amassed more than one million paying suscribers, the company announced today. Garbage unreasonable. Refuses to be taken away.
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#6 by Matt Perkins To go further on this idea though... why would I play a web only game from anywhere but work? When I'm home I can run games with better graphics, more features, full screen, etc. Good question. I guess the game would have to sell itself through better exposure -> more players and by allowing you to quickly log on to the game for a short round of play. And you could make it possible for people to embed their stats page on their blog. dethstryk: My friend bought some porno mags. He's single-handedly holding up the porn industry.
yotsuya: What's he doing with the other hand? |
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Does anyone play any here play any of these games? Or have friends that do? The last web only game I played is Desktop Tower Defense on Kongregate... Though I did just sign up to Runescape because now I'm all curious. I play Desktop tower occasionally. And I usually have game of Dice Wars going that I play a few rounds of whenever I'm at my desk. Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore. -LP Johnsen Family
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o go further on this idea though... why would I play a web only game from anywhere but work? When I'm home I can run games with better graphics, more features, full screen, etc. Usually they're simple meaning I can play and still pay attention to the Lost finale. Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore. -LP Johnsen Family
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I'm blind, apparently... anyone see the price runescape charges per month? My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in
"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo |
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But what has this got to do with Shadowbane? |
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Web games have their own unique appeal over traditional PC games in the same way that door games appealed to early BBS users. They were the first MMORPGs. Granted they were text based, asynchronous and small in scale, but for a lot of people the multiplayer leaderboard aspects were compelling enough to make the limited investment. Any discussion of web games has to include Habbo/Netbaby/Neopets/Travian/PuzzlePirates/etc. to be complete. |
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I played OGame for a while. It would definitely benefit from some web2.0zation. The "gameplay" is mostly clicking a button and waiting for a timer to countdown or resources to build up so you can click another button, but it uses the MMO model of rewards and tech trees to keep you interested. Actually though, I think the best comparison would be a really slow RTS, where you have a lot of time, hours, to plan your next move. It's a good at work game to a point, after which the scale of things becomes a little silly and you have to start micromanaging. |
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#14 by eggbert I played OGame for a while. It would definitely benefit from some web2.0zation. The "gameplay" is mostly clicking a button and waiting for a timer to countdown or resources to build up so you can click another button, but it uses the MMO model of rewards and tech trees to keep you interested. Actually though, I think the best comparison would be a really slow RTS, where you have a lot of time, hours, to plan your next move. It's a good at work game to a point, after which the scale of things becomes a little silly and you have to start micromanaging. See, that's exactly the sort of game I'm thinking about making. dethstryk: My friend bought some porno mags. He's single-handedly holding up the porn industry.
yotsuya: What's he doing with the other hand? |
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A few of my siblings play Puzzle Pirates. |^^^^^^^^^^^^ |||__
| こんにちは | ||'|"\,__. |_..._...______===|=||_|__|...,] (@)'(@)"""*|(@)*(@)*****(@) |
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I played Travian for a bit... it got real boring real fast when I had to wait hours and hours to do my next move. Meh. Those kinds of games are interesting, but they aren't good long term, imho. My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in
"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo |
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Sprecher root beer is a favorite. |
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Never heard of it. Is it a regional brand? Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore. -LP Johnsen Family
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I played LONSB quite a bit. |
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Yea, that was cool. I mentioned that a couple days ago. |
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I played that for a while and some spaceship version of Trade Wars, but none of them have really kept my attention the way a real game does. I mean, I probably spent as much time playing Guitar Hero last night as I played LONSB in total. Even I know what crossing the Rubicon means, and I know fuck all about American history. -m0nty
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You can play the game that was the source for LotNSB here. |
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Or you can play a more fleshed-out game based on LORD mechanics here. It isn't a Fallout game unless I use my pickpocketing skill to place a ticking dynamite bomb into the pockets of an 8 year old boy.
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Oy... World of Warcraft is a pie eating contest where the reward is more pie.
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Women in other countries have been using pills to stop the inconvenience of having periods for decades? I'd heard about some women skipping the placebo section of their pills, but that was just individuals (in North America). Even I know what crossing the Rubicon means, and I know fuck all about American history. -m0nty
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this topic sucks Joker, Ph.D. Procedural Assholian Behaviour, Pedophilosopher
- All your ass are belong to my wang Jafd. Prepare to are penetration. "I fart in THX." - Sgt_Hulka PAY ATTENTION, YA DUMB FUKKAN CACKSUKKAN IGNORANT MORANS. |
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Matt P.: I played Travian for a bit... it got real boring real fast when I had to wait hours and hours to do my next move. Meh. Those kinds of games are interesting, but they aren't good long term, imho. When I played Planetarion, I found it was fun to log in to the game a couple of times a day, check my stats and make my moves and get on with work/life. It's like a turn based game with 8 hour turns, not a game you sit down and play for a couple of hours. It's more like fantasy football than WoW or Civilization. dethstryk: My friend bought some porno mags. He's single-handedly holding up the porn industry.
yotsuya: What's he doing with the other hand? |
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What I meant to add was: that's the most feasible concept for webgames imho. dethstryk: My friend bought some porno mags. He's single-handedly holding up the porn industry.
yotsuya: What's he doing with the other hand? |
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#26 by Shadarr Women in other countries have been using pills to stop the inconvenience of having periods for decades? I'd heard about some women skipping the placebo section of their pills, but that was just individuals (in North America). Really. That sounds a bit freaky to just stop it. Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore. -LP Johnsen Family
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So what? Medicine is full of freaky shit. fuck your song
and fuck your dance fuck your keeping me down and under |
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Oy... That blonde woman needs to be punched in the face. Fuck, that's irritating. "I need babies. We need babies. We need more babies." SHUT THE FUCK UP! Damn it... The last thing this strung out planet needs is more people on it. That pill is a god send. |
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So what? Medicine is full of freaky shit. Yep, medicine is chemically/physically altering the behavior of your body for a desired good. I don't see why people think this is so weird. World of Warcraft is a pie eating contest where the reward is more pie.
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Chinese Gold Farmers World of Warcraft is a pie eating contest where the reward is more pie.
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#33 by McBain Yep, medicine is chemically/physically altering the behavior of your body for a desired good. I don't see why people think this is so weird. I could see making an argument that it's medically wired. Mostly since every article written back when Sesonale was approved just had to include something about iron build up and cancer risks being the reason for the once every 3 months cycle persisting (So if you don't know better and remember those articles making the jump from 4 per year to never would sound off). Also McBain your lucky they're talking to stupid nuts jobs really. The whole 'omg no bleading means you aren't a woman' angle will fade quickly, if they'd been smarter and attacked based on the 'approvable letter' the FDA gave Lybrel back in June over concerns over quality control at the plant Wyeth plans make the stuff at rumors of it being 'unsafe' would hang over the drugs whole time in the market. |
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XAML rocks ass. That is all. Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.
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Here's a timelapse video of the modern approach to 3d modeling. This new workflow is taking root more and more, though it's still (in my experience) mostly confined to making characters. But gone are the days of slowly building up shit poly by poly and slapping on a bump map. Maybe some of you will find it interesting. "…a four-dimensional real vector space equipped with a nondegenerate, symmetric bilinear form."
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Did I mention XAML? Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.
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did I give a shit? "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
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Hey bago, what do you think of X3D, if anything? |
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XAML? Sounds painfully boring. |
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The issue at hand is that no one really knows what the long term health effects of halting menses will be. Will it increase the risk of cancer? Will it cause decreased bone mass in later years? These are documented side effects of pill usage. What will the effects be with sustained use? I have been skipping placebos ever since I figured out that it would illiminate my cycle. My doctor thought it was fine. They could study me if they really wanted to find out long term effects and I can assure you I've not been the only one doing it. Another thing to consider is that, for most women, a menstrual cycle is not something that makes them broken and therefore should not require fixing. For myself, it was a huge factor in G-load management (while wingwalking)as it depleted my hydration levels not to mention that it's a pain to manage. I don't want children now or ever so I don't really care. Being sick, bloated, aching back, cramps once a month has no appeal for me. Good ridance to bad company! |
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In a bid not to be outdone by Heroes, Veronica Mars season 3 episode 16 has four dudes cheering and playing Gears of War. For about a second. Two are holding controllers, but the screen only shows one player playing. Good times :). That is all. "…a four-dimensional real vector space equipped with a nondegenerate, symmetric bilinear form."
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(I'm not trying to attack you Wing, but I am going to use the issues raised in your post to talk about a lot of misinformation floating around about this stuff) #42 by wingwalker The issue at hand is that no one really knows what the long term health effects of halting menses will be. That's not really true. As you mentioned, a significant number of women maintain a pill regimen that has the same effect, in fact, the regular pill regimen already halts ovulation. The bleeding women on the regular pill experience is artificial, basically, a deliberate attempt to simulate menstruation on the part of the pharmaceutical companies. And women have been taking the pill for decades. So why put up with a fake period? Will it increase the risk of cancer? No. In fact it will probably reduce the risk of some cancers like ovarian cancer. Will it cause decreased bone mass in later years? Probably, just like the regular pill. Women on the pill should already increase their dietary calcium intake or take a calcium supplement. Basically, this is a very low dose pill with no placebo period. It's not that exotic, and not significantly different from the women who've already been skipping the placebo. Another thing to consider is that, for most women, a menstrual cycle is not something that makes them broken and therefore should not require fixing. I see this as, at one end of the spectrum, a lifestyle issue. Do you find your period annoying or inconvenient? Are you sick of futzing around with pads and tampons and whatnot? Worrying about bad frigging timing in swimsuit season? Get rid of it. Yay, science! Yay modern civilization! And if you're a woman who is significantly adversely affected by her period, like my stepmother who, pre menopause, was nearly completely disabled two or three days a month, every month with heavy bleeding and cramps, it'll be a godsend. Remember: A typical modern western woman, a woman going to school, in the workforce, i.e not spending most of her fertile life from the early to mid teens onward pregnant or nursing (which would be shutting down menstruation in most women), is having, historically speaking, a ridiculously high number of periods, several hundred more in her lifetime than her ancestors. So it's not like the current state of things is so "natural" anyway. There's no need to demonize menstruation, but there's no need to worship it either, not when these regimens are voluntary and reversible. No one is going to be less of a woman. |
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Whew! Thank god Hugin is here to educate Wing about women issues. My crummy little life
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That's why I said, I was using Wing's post to expand on stuff I've been reading around the web in this argument. Wing expressed similar sentiments anyway. |
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Whew! Thank god Hugin is here to educate Wing about women issues. Hugin already said he gained the knowledge he's sharing through reading. Not a popular way to go, I know, but some people still enjoy it. |
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No no, we must pile on your eloquently phrased post and, through means of forum magic, twist what you actually said into simple black and white statements that we can all get our froth on over. Prepare to have your post filed as a) false, b) unjustified, and c) racist. "…a four-dimensional real vector space equipped with a nondegenerate, symmetric bilinear form."
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Black people can't be racist. I think the main point to remember is that the adverse health effects from this are going to be exactly the same as from the regular pill, because it's the same drug repackaged without placebos. I highly doubt there will be any adverse effects just from not having a period. Didn't bloodletting go out of style a couple centuries ago? Even I know what crossing the Rubicon means, and I know fuck all about American history. -m0nty
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The whole thing gives me a sort of vague, irrational concern. I tried to think of something analogous, and I though that if there was some sort of pill that eliminated the need for sleep, I'd also be similarly discomfited. (Though given the known results of sleep deprivation I'd probably have a bit more reason to be concerned) For some reason, the removal of a cyclical process from the body altogether just makes me start imagining all sorts of sinister side-effects building up. Is it foolish? Probably. But I think even some people who find the idea intellectually fine (ie. myself) will have those vague doubts to dispel. Not like I have to worry about it anyway. It isn't a Fallout game unless I use my pickpocketing skill to place a ticking dynamite bomb into the pockets of an 8 year old boy.
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Shadarr (#49): Black people can't be racist. This is true. Asian people, however, are the racistest. |
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I dig XAML and all, but it's not the alpha-and-omega. I thought you led a life of fun and excitement, Bago? Is XAML really as good as it gets for you? |
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That's why I said, I was using Wing's post to expand on stuff I've been reading around the web in this argument. Wing expressed similar sentiments anyway For what it's worth, I was just playing devil's advocate. As stated in my original post, I've been skipping placebos since the time of Dinosaurs and have no health concerns about doing it. I agree with Hugin on most points. The fact that this pill is causing so much controversy is ridiculous. Any idiot child using birth control *me* could figure out how to "manage" away their period in a heartbeat. It is not new at all, it merely has a new name. No one was this upset when women started getting injections(can't recall the name) every three months as a form of birth control which also prevented menstruation. In my opinion, periods are horribly nasty and deserve eradication with extreme prejudice. |
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XAML actually sounds interesting. My intelligence, then, is not absolute but is a function of the society I live in
"I'm not sure it's possible to make a "subtle" jab at Matt's writing ability." - Ergo |
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