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Bioshock: the new Deus Ex?
August 18th 2006, 04:55 CEST by Gunp01nt A TTLG interview with Irrational Games' Ken Levine contained a few windows of hope: Right now the biggest hurdle to this is story. We can use the microprocessor to spawn in bad guys, randomize loot, give the player a huge range of tools to choose from and have the AI interact with each other in groundbreaking ways. We can make a really emergent world that feels different to every player. What the microprocessor can't do is write a single line of interesting story. It can't create a single compelling character. It wouldn't know a plot twist if it woke up in bed with one. What always bugs me about this is that it ignores the key component of what compels people to do nasty things: need. In BioShock, we put you in a terrible world that has exploited the weakest members of that world in horrible ways. Then we put you in a situation in which, in order to survive, it's pretty damn tempting to exploit the weak yourself. And there's no moral authority telling you what to do, what's right and wrong. So, a game world with substance, moral decisions, story and plot,... While being billed as the spiritual successor to System Shock 2, several things in the above quotes sound more like Deus Ex to me. Obviously, Bioshock doesn't continue the Deus Ex universe. But could it be the next Deus Ex in terms of depth, story and decision making? |
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Topic: Bioshock: the new Deus Ex?
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Yeah, see, that was the part I wasn't talking about. Working AI != Good AI This will not be the end of it.
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BRAIIIIINS! We need to keep our arms open, our head up, smiles big and our middle fingers raised.
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is there a crapper frappr? who all are the UK crappers? |
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http://www.frappr.com/planetcrap |
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I never played System Shock... |
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Doh, glad I don't have Dish network...bye bye dvr "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
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Oh snap? Jesus Christ, that is unbelievably retarded! - lwf
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Keep in mind that good AI has to only provide a "decent" enough challenge. The AI cannot cause the game to become to difficult or unfun, otherwise it fails. This can give developers a way to cheat and take shortcuts with the AI. こんにちは
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Not even System Shock 2 Matt? For shame. ..actually I don't know if I'd call either one really universally good games. Important for their times and their genres, and personally I enjoyed the holy fuck out of them, but they were an aquired taste I think. |
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Doh, glad I don't have Dish network...bye bye dvr Damn, that sucks. I have a Dish Network DVR, I think Ergo does too. At least Dish Network says they're going to change them enough so they won't have patent problems. I don't need much, just a fast forward and record button. Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore. -LP Johnsen Family
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Gamespot serves up FEAR and Chronicles of Riddick ads a lot. Did they release a budget/GOTY version for those games or did I step into a time machine and travel a year back? If lusting after Alyson Hannigan is wrong, fuck being right. Fuck it in the ear.
- Warren Marshall |
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So apparently I can't play the official MP4 of that Company of Heroes game because I don't have some cunting codec. Can someone remind me what the fuck it is that I need to fucking do to play this fucking file? |
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A console? Man, Company of Heroes is a real pretty RTS. They got a shitload of detail pressed into that title, I flashed back to what they originally did with Homeworld. It was a leap in detail compared to the then-current RTS', and CoH seems all about that as well. |
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AVC? |
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So, I'm considering registering as a bone marrow donor. It seems like a pretty painless Good Thing™ to do. Anyone have any compelling arguments as to why I shouldn't? |
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It's not painless. Quite the opposite, from what I've heard. I am not part of the solution.
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Donate your body for medical studies so that young medics have a cold carcass to play with. Painless! |
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If you want a painless good thing to do, then just donate blood every 8 weeks, especially if you're an O- bloodtype. It's easy to do and the Red Cross will remind you when your next donation date is. Bone marrow is pretty painful to donate. Current novel word count: 18,400 words (I'm hoping by putting it here it helps motivate me)
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So, I'm considering registering as a bone marrow donor. It seems like a pretty sweet ploy to meet clients. For shame... Tears of pleasure we weep, Inside our big sleep
Begging you please to keep, Your fist elbow deep |
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I'm assuming the after effects are the painful part? They use anesthesia when extracting the marrow. Ergo is right, as he always is except the times when his opinion is different than mine.--Mr. Nutty
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Suposedly, the anesthesia only dulls the pain, it still hurts like bloody screaming hell. Tears of pleasure we weep, Inside our big sleep
Begging you please to keep, Your fist elbow deep |
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#2 by BobJustBob It sounds like they have a great game and they're right now trying to think of ways to ruin it. How so? Obviously, Bioshock doesn't continue the Deus Ex universe. But could it be the next Deus Ex in terms of depth, story and decision making? I hope it can. Outside of the ending, I don't think DX presented very many moral choices. Yes, I can role play the game to make moral choices, but if there's not consequence I don't think it matters. They need believable and sympathetic characters if you want the player to buy into a moral choice. In DX, I can never let Jock die, so I make sure to find the bomb every time. What I want from a DX style game and choice are to be able to play the game multiple times, using different tactics and have a different experience. If they can make those choices difficult, then I say kudos to them. That would be great. |
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I'm with Caryn, marrow donation is too great a sacrifice. Let the fuckers die already. Today Officer Coon, Officer Nigger-hater, and Officer Keep-darky-down were acquitted of all racist charges.
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Everything I've heard says it is painful. I donate blood, and like Caryn says it's simple and close to painless, why not try it? Plus we may start to think of you as human if you go through with it. Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore. -LP Johnsen Family
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So, have we all heard of the new downloadable content for Chromehounds? I don't have a non-danish link, maybe someone else can dig one up? But we're talking purchasable content here, new arms and generators and stuff, content that obviously alters the gameplay. How farfetched is it to imagine the new parts are so useful that you'll "have to" buy them after meeting them on the battlefield? You don't wanna fight against an unfairly powerful enemy do you? Either by design or neglect I think that'll have to happen with gameplay-altering content that costs money. This is a slippery slope I do not in the least enjoy. |
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Can you buy parts that others can play against if they don't own them? If so, that would be pretty irregular. |
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Welcome to the Korean MMO buisness model. |
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Can you buy parts that others can play against if they don't own them? If so, that would be pretty irregular. As long as the new parts aren't horribly unbalanced, it shouldn't be a problem. However if it's a case where you can buy a missile launcher that does more damage and has the same size and weight as the stock model, that would suck. I am not part of the solution.
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jjohnsen in #36: I donate blood, and like Caryn says it's simple and close to painless, why not try it? Plus we may start to think of you as human if you go through with it. I've already donated blood plenty of times. BORING! Plus I'm not type O or AB negative etc. So the bone marrow people are liars, eh? Okay, that's enough to put me off of that. I might still get registered anyway, because the odds are that I won't even match with anyone who needs me. And if I know I'm "OMG SAVING LIVES!" for sure, a few days of soreness is probably worth it. |
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Maybe Chromehounds will somehow magically only implement perfectly-balanced items that never leaves you with a "damnfuckinghell that man has the 100-points-worth rocketlauncher", but even then the slippery slope dicates someone else will make a game that has that feature. I mean, marketing will want to have the cool toys be available through purchasable content right? There's going to be a constant pressure to include something that's just better, because that way more people will buy the item. Hooray! Monies! I'm not part of whatever generation this appeals to, at least as long as I only have my worst-case scenarios to imagine I can't stand the thought of running around in Battlefield 4 having to buy access to the spiffy weapons. It's bad enough in Battlefield 2 already where you had to buy a specific expansionpack because the weapons it gave access to was made available on all servers (regardless of what expansionpack it was running). If the same thing starts happening with individual items, and in particular if the rumors are true that MS wants to implement purchasable content that degrades so you have to keep buying them, then.. then it's game over man, game over! |
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It's not the test that hurts, but the actually bone marrow donation if you match someone and they ask you to donate. I researched this a while ago but never got myself added to it, mostly because I got lazy. When donating marrow there's two methods they can do. One is they dig into your bone and take it out. IIRC they would put you under a general anesthetic and insert a huge needle into your hip, or another big bone, and take the marrow out. That will be sore for a few days. The other way was to give you some drugs for a few days that would stimulate your bones to create an excess of marrow. This ends up giving you achy bones for a few days while on the drugs but the actual donation is similar to a blood donation as they filter it out while you are sitting on a gurney. I don't remember if that takes 30 min. to get the marrow or you might have to sit there hooked up to the machine for 2 hours. I forget. |
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And if I know I'm "OMG SAVING LIVES!" for sure, a few days of soreness is probably worth it. So, what was the life changing experience in your case? |
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Meh: Sanity: Aiken's Artifact tried that and flopped, and like None-1a astutely observed, this stuff is the norm in Korea (see e.g. Gunbound) and the world hasn't ended there yet. |
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Or you can look at the pictures in steps 5, Mr. Google. |
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Cheesy: Yeah, obviously, I have seen that page and read the details on the procedure, but they don't really tell you HOW painful it is, or how annoying etc. I'm going to do it, if for nothing else then to do it because you didn't. Anon: No life changing experience, just seems like a good way to get all my good deeds for a decade or so out of the way in one blow so I can continue to be an asshole in good conscience. |
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Even if is very painful you can always just do a ton of drugs until you feel better. Today Officer Coon, Officer Nigger-hater, and Officer Keep-darky-down were acquitted of all racist charges.
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So that's why they get caught in those nets. I am not part of the solution.
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Ah, the coveted poutine endorsement. We need to keep our arms open, our head up, smiles big and our middle fingers raised.
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Of course Sony picks up the cue from Microsoft, and now the makers of Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom introduces some magnificent features in their action RPG. You want that fourth characterclass unlocked? Gotta pay for it. If I may jump to conclusions I assume that means you can pair up with someone that has that class, and if you think it looks really cool and wanna try it then.. tough luck. You gotta pay up to do that. The thought makes me throw up in my mouth a bit. Doubleu-tee-eff. Linky link |
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Or you can look at the pictures in steps 5, Mr. Google. So G-man wants to get his bare ass fondled by a surgeon. That's uh... actually not that weird as insane sexual fetishes go. If lusting after Alyson Hannigan is wrong, fuck being right. Fuck it in the ear.
- Warren Marshall |
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I just made a long post that got eaten by an errant keystroke, so I'll do the brief version: I bought a 360. Gamertag is HuginMunin. Console basically good. Microsoft policies slightly bad, but I can deal with it, and Sony won't be any better when the PS3 rolls around. Overall Next Gen console complexity a double edged sword. I appreciate the cool new features, but I definitely miss the "turn it on and go" feeling. The 360 dashboard UI isn't horrible, but it could be improved. It's functional without being elegant, which is a shame. This console's operational logistics will definitely be more intimidating to marginal gamers, as opposed to previous generations that were about as complicated as toasters. Ah well. I purchased Chrome Hounds and Dead Rising. And I downloaded some demos last night that I haven't played yet. Oh, and power supply is LOLHuge. |
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Nice! I'm going to buy one in about a month I think. And Wii not long after that. |
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I appreciate the cool new features, but I definitely miss the "turn it on and go" feeling. Not sure what you mean by this? You can set the console to default to running whatever's in the drive on powerup (I thought that was the default - until they added the option to boot to dashboard with the last patch). Funk I am sofa king. We todd ed.
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Funk, I mean that there's a tradeoff. There's a lot of interesting fnctionality, but that inherently adds complexity. I don't mean it's hard to use per se, just that, you know, everyone can get fun from a ball, or a rubber band or whaever, and the more buttons you add and modes and features and stuff, the more you move away from the elegant simplicity of pure play. Golf cart vs a Ferrari. No one is saying a Ferrari is bad, but man, zipping around in a golf cart is awfully fun, the learning curve is about zero, etc. Does that make any sense? |
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>>>Hugin I've been hitting the Bioware Corp. forum for months, glancing periodically at Mass Effect in development for the 360. This looks like the game that'll draw me in to 360, if anything. If you like Bioware's style of CRPG, be on the lookout for this title, I'd be waiting patiently for your online review! ;) BeeDee They say a midget standin' on the giant's shoulder can see much further than the giant...
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I saw a trailer for mass effect (off the marketplace). I was more than a little underwhelmed. |
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Really? I think it looks sexy. Just so long as the script, voice-acting and combat doesn't suck as much as it did in KOTOR2, I think it could be good. |
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Remeber, you're talking to Squeaky. YMMV. Ergo is right, as he always is except the times when his opinion is different than mine.--Mr. Nutty
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Have they even shown gameplay footage of Mass Effect yet? "That probably entirely useless path, that probably lost day, that probably futile hope. What's the point of it all?" - Franz Kafka, The Castle
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I've definitely seen some stuff about how the dialogue system works, and some clips of the combat... but I don't recall where exactly. Pretty sure there was an E3 presentation that had someone talking you through it all. |
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