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Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racer
May 19th 2006, 20:23 CEST by CheesyPoof

I never played any form of Riiiiiiiiiiiiiidge Racer, have you? I wonder why they keep making it?
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#101 by Percy Kittenz
2006-05-20 21:12:46
blakcat9@planetquake.com http://www.livejournal.com/users/percykittenz
I will agree that Steam seems to need to update itself way too much, and asking if you want to apply patches now would be a nice courtosy gesture, but Steam takes a ton of the burden out of the equation that overrules what they put back in. In order to get that patch, you'd first have to be aware that such a patch existed, then find it on a download site - most of which require registration, so you might presumably have to do that - then get the patch at whatever throttled down bandwidth the site offers you, and once you have it, run the installer. Now, don't you think that would probably take around 20 minutes, even if you found a good download site? With Steam, it finds any and all updates automatically and downloads them as fast as possible, installing the files right into the system as it goes.

Besides, you're going to want this patch. The game is nearly impossible, or at least hair-pullingly difficult, without the patch due to a broken difficulty system.

When I bought Sin on Steam, I purchased it without pre-downloading. I waited about 20 minutes for Sin 1 to download, played that for a couple hours until Sin Emergence downloaded, then went right in. Pretty painless and I didn't have to leave the house. I expect it probably would have taken about as long to drive to the store, drive back and install it from the cd, but instead, I got to play my free bonus game while I waited.

"There are more things in Heaven and Earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. Because your philosophy sucks." - Lore Fitzgerald Sjöberg
#102 by Shadarr
2006-05-20 21:20:34
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I think what would solve all of Warren's complaints is if it started the game up immediately after install, and then did all the Steam crap in the background.  And applying patches should always be optional, because sometimes patches suck and break the game.
#103 by gaggle
2006-05-20 22:24:08
Simply saying it removes 3 line items is not seeing the larger issue.  Those 3 line items took the bulk of the time

Oh, well.. yeah, that doesn't seem like it's just three irrelevant lines then, I can see how you'd be fond of not having to go through that. But really? Just for updating Steam? We're both talking about the lines
- starts up Steam, - updates Steam, - restarts Steam
yeah? I remember installing Steam from fresh just recently, on account of reinstalled Windows, and I don't think it took more than a couple of minutes, at most. Unless I'm seriously misremembering things or you have a wacky slow internetconnection I'm not sure where exactly we're getting our beams crossed.

Certainly what took the longest was the downloading of all the games, now that was an all-nighter. Literally.


But eh well, reflecting back on your original post this is about being annoyed of all the waiting you had to go through, and that's obviously not something my own different experience can change. I see your point, and ah.. well hey, at least you don't have to go through updating Steam when HLep1 arrives. Presumably anyway.

"the game will be based on famous battles which actually took place in ancient Japan. So here's this giant enemy crab."
#104 by Squeaky
2006-05-20 22:32:26
I don't think anyone here still cares about WoW, but for those that do still play, some interesting things in the 1.11 patch notes:

The cost to unlearn talents will now decay over time. This cost will be reduced by a rate of 5 gold per month to a minimum of 10 gold.

Yay! Respecing is not as bad as it used to be!

After a disconnect from the server, it is now possible to log back in immediately, instead of receiving the message, "A character with that name already exists."

Hooray. Took them long enough to figure this one out.

Fear: The calculations to determine if Fear effects should break due to receiving damage have been changed. The old calculation used the base damage of the ability. The new calculation uses the final amount of damage dealt, after all modifiers. In addition, the chance for a damage over time spell to break Fear is now significantly lower. Note that Fear continues to be roughly three times as likely to break on player targets as on non-player targets.

Slight warlock nerf :(

And it looks like they're finally fixing that damned bug where Shamans take damage occasionally, and making mages fun to play. Also of note: keyrings, increased stack sizes for leather, and an altered cooldown system for consumables:
We have re-evaluated the mechanics of consumable items in the game and concluded that these should work in a more intuitive manner. As such, most items that can not be equipped with right click abilities have been streamlined into one of three categories. Using an item of a particular category will trigger a shared cooldown among all other items in the same category. The categories break down as follows with category cooldowns as listed.
Potions 2 minutes: This includes items such as Health Potion, Mana Potion, Invisibility Potion and Mighty Rage Potion.
Aggressive 1 minute: This includes items such as explosives, Really Sticky Glue and Discombobulator Ray.
Non-Aggresive 2 minutes: This includes items such as Healthstone, Night Dragon's Breath, Whipper Root Tuber and Target Dummy.
Many items that can be equipped have had their cooldown category removed and will be controlled exclusively by the item's self cooldown. For example, the Gnomish Mind Control Cap should no longer trigger the cooldown of the Talisman of Arathor.
We have re-evauluated the class specific quest rewards for both Zul'Gurub and Ahn'Qiraj Ruins. To bring them more in line with the effort required to attain them we have upgraded the superior items to epic quality.
All food/drink can be eaten while silenced. Previously some food/drink could not be consumed when under the effect of a silence.
The Gnomish Mind Control Cap may now only be used on targets that are not in combat.


Looks like they're also beefing up the PvP armour sets, and are adding a bunch of new quests.

and for you catassers:
A new LEGENDARY item quest has been added! Casters rejoice (and druids too)!



Full patch notes over at Qt3.

Aeternum vale
#105 by gaggle
2006-05-20 22:36:23
With all-digital distribution, would playtesting suffer? Usually we draw on the publisher's testing-teams right? That's been the case at my workplace, plus I'm pretty sure that's how it always is when I hear from other companies. Certainly Microsoft and EA and such staffs people dedicated to finding bugs of all sorts, not in the least in patches so as to avoid (too many) occurances of what Shadarr talks about. I assume Gears of War is being tested rigorously by Microsoft (uh, at least I think CoW is being published by MS)

How does Ritual do their testing? Anyone know? Who handles the publishing for their physical-distribution?

"the game will be based on famous battles which actually took place in ancient Japan. So here's this giant enemy crab."
#106 by gaggle
2006-05-20 22:39:47
Hell I should've made a real topic out of that question, think about the pages upon pages of solid discussion we could've had on that topic! God I love Planetcrap, it's good to be free of the shackles of ordinary forums.

"the game will be based on famous battles which actually took place in ancient Japan. So here's this giant enemy crab."
#107 by bishop
2006-05-20 22:44:42
http://www.darkintellect.com/00FF00/
You do the testing for Ritual.

Also, not that anyone at all who doesn't go to irc cares, but my x360 gamertag is six827.
#108 by lwf
2006-05-20 22:46:27
I don't care.

Put down the imaginary knife before you pretend to hurt yourself.
#109 by Dumdeedum
2006-05-20 22:54:53
http://www.dumdeedum.com
With all-digital distribution, would playtesting suffer?

Yes.  With patches on tap there's less incentive to get it perfect first time because you can always patch it tomorrow.  And if tomorrow's patch introduces bugs then there's always the day after.

This is why I uninstalled all but the one or two Steam games I play, the endless patching was annoying.  In retrospect I should probably have just set the "no updates for this game" option, but hey, I'm saving disk space this way as well.  So yeah, automatic patching has upsides like Percy listed, but there's definite downsides too.

Solid discussion done, I befriended no small animals today.

#110 by Mister Nutty
2006-05-20 23:05:57
I see Warren's point too, but given the choice between fucking with Steam for 20 minutes before getting into a game and installing a store-bought AAA game that is going to install Starforce or some other driver based copy protection that is likely to fuck up my system in some way that is impossible to undo without reinstalling Windows, I'll take Steam every time.

YHBT. YHL. HAND
#111 by LPMiller
2006-05-20 23:07:12
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
I care. And so do my pants.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
#112 by Mister Nutty
2006-05-20 23:07:58

Yes.  With patches on tap there's less incentive to get it perfect first time because you can always patch it tomorrow.  And if tomorrow's patch introduces bugs then there's always the day after.


In my experience, both as a developer and user, this isn't true.  Developers would rather get things right the first time and not deal with constant patching, and when patching isn't easily available that doesn't mean the first rev will be any better, it just means you'll be waiting longer with a buggy game until a big patch release comes out months later.

So stop whining you little bitch.

YHBT. YHL. HAND
#113 by Shadarr
2006-05-20 23:15:28
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
The one thing I'd say about Steam authentication is that it should be completely separate from the downloading mechanism.  There's no reason you should have to download a bunch of updates before it lets you type in your cd key.
#114 by Warren Marshall
2006-05-20 23:28:15
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
I see Warren's point too, but given the choice between fucking with Steam for 20 minutes before getting into a game and installing a store-bought AAA game that is going to install Starforce or some other driver based copy protection that is likely to fuck up my system in some way that is impossible to undo without reinstalling Windows, I'll take Steam every time.

Well, yeah, if it comes down to taking it up the ass with or without lube - I'll take the lube.  I still won't be happy about it though.

Jesus Christ, that is unbelievably retarded! - lwf
#115 by Dumdeedum
2006-05-20 23:32:10
http://www.dumdeedum.com
In my experience, both as a developer and user, this isn't true.  Developers would rather get things right the first time and not deal with constant patching, and when patching isn't easily available that doesn't mean the first rev will be any better, it just means you'll be waiting longer with a buggy game until a big patch release comes out months later.

So stop whining you little bitch.

Did you just call me a little bitch?  I demand satisfaction, Sir!  Sissy fight at dawn.  Weapons: girly slaps.

And whether developers want to get things right first time and would rather avoid patching is irrelevant because developers also hate testing stuff because testing is boring.

#116 by Warren Marshall
2006-05-20 23:47:24
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Developers don't decide to ship games early.  Publishers do.

Jesus Christ, that is unbelievably retarded! - lwf
#117 by schnee
2006-05-21 00:24:49
david@snowdesign.com http://www.snowdesign.com
Developers don't test. QA people test. They're usually OCD, so it's a happy coincidence that makes them really good at what they do... unless bastard marketing types only schedule a week for them and no time to fix stuff.

Sounds like the media-based installation can be substantially shortened by simply packaging all the updating into one big ball of fun.

No fucking way. Unfortunately, multiple CD runs are prohibitively expensive, so updates are necessary.

I'm working on an installer/updater now, and unfortunately, I can't see how Steam can optimize the process other than making file sizes smaller or making the app itself less piggy. It's simply the shortcomings of having an installer that can handle every eventuality, even updating itself.

#118 by Jibble
2006-05-21 08:16:22
I know not many were planning on it anyway, but don't bother going to see The Da Vinci Code. It's...well, not good.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 217 lbs.  37 to go.
#119 by Penguinx
2006-05-21 08:19:15
A small part of me hates you for spending money on that shlock. It's only a small part, though. Hopefully I can kill it away by huffing some gasoline.

#120 by yotsuya
2006-05-21 08:35:54
I went and saw it. It was alright. I've seen worse.

"It's only make-believe until it becomes flim-flam."
#121 by m0nty
2006-05-21 08:47:35
http://tinfinger.blogspot.com
Save your money so that you may waste it on slightly higher quality schlock, like X3.
#122 by yotsuya
2006-05-21 09:21:09
Here's one for the "I wonder what ever happened to that guy?" files:

SAN JOSE, California (AP) -- The former college student known as the "Naked Guy," who gained notoriety in the early 1990s for attending class in the buff, has died in jail, authorities said.

Andrew Martinez, 33, whose stripped-down strolls at the University of California, Berkeley, got him expelled and prompted the city to adopt a strict anti-nudity ordinance, was found unconscious Thursday in a Santa Clara County jail, said jail spokesman Mark Cursi.

Officials are investigating the death as an apparent suicide.

He had been in custody since January 10 on charges of battery and assault with a deadly weapon, authorities said.

In 1992, Martinez organized a "Nude-In" protest at the university. He said he was trying to make a point about free expression.

The message caught on, and nude spottings spiked on campus. Martinez, who landed on national talk shows, was expelled the next year after the university banned nudity.

"It's only make-believe until it becomes flim-flam."
#123 by McBain
2006-05-21 11:09:58
The new WoW patch is great.  Blizzard really listens to their players and makes real changes that make good sense.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
#124 by Shadarr
2006-05-21 11:43:27
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I know not many were planning on it anyway, but don't bother going to see The Da Vinci Code. It's...well, not good.

Damn, I was hoping Ron Howard would be able to syphon off the shitty writing, leaving only the story behind.  Ah well, it's not like I go to movies anyway.
#125 by McBain
2006-05-21 11:48:12
I had not realized until the recent Oscars that Brock Peters whom I knew so well from Star Trek was Tom Robinson.

Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
#126 by Matt Perkins
2006-05-21 15:37:19
wizardque@yahoo.com http://whatwouldmattdo.com/
You crazy bastards, why must you make me agree with Warren. The purchased game on DVD/CD should a faster install...because you aren't downloading the game! Duh!

The process should be like this:
- buy game
- install game (this should be all the time)
- register game
- patch game


Steam is a broken system for those who don't pre-download.

"me did a sneak attack to smack the demons off my back"
#127 by Caryn
2006-05-21 15:49:35
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
Developers don't test. QA people test.

This is not true, at least not for us. While we do have a QA team at Activision, we have two in-house testers that test builds we make every day just for them, builds in between the builds that go to Activision for testing. And for every major milestone on Quake 4 we were all required (well, strongly asked) to playtest the build each night up until the milestone. Since our artists/modelers often finished with their work and didn't technically have crunch, we turned them into a first-line-of-defense QA team and asked them to do testing on the builds every night, and for multiplayer we generally had the whole team test every night.

LPMiller: "dunno, I've done some damn amazing things pantless."
cinq0: "This is true. The last time he went pantless, he populated the Eastern Seaboard."
#128 by Penguinx
2006-05-21 15:52:49
Caryn, are you guys working on any new IP?

#129 by Penguinx
2006-05-21 15:55:05
If you can answer that, obviously. No need to drudge that silly argument up again.

#130 by Caryn
2006-05-21 15:56:57
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
Heh, wish I could, but as you guessed, I can't. I personally am working on the Marvel game we're doing.

LPMiller: "dunno, I've done some damn amazing things pantless."
cinq0: "This is true. The last time he went pantless, he populated the Eastern Seaboard."
#131 by LPMiller
2006-05-21 16:24:24
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
that better be cool, woman!

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
#132 by Warren Marshall
2006-05-21 16:45:11
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
This is not true, at least not for us. While we do have a QA team at Activision, we have two in-house testers that test builds we make every day just for them, builds in between the builds that go to Activision for testing. And for every major milestone on Quake 4 we were all required (well, strongly asked) to playtest the build each night up until the milestone. Since our artists/modelers often finished with their work and didn't technically have crunch, we turned them into a first-line-of-defense QA team and asked them to do testing on the builds every night, and for multiplayer we generally had the whole team test every night.

That sounds almost blow-for-blow like what happens at Epic.  We have an internal QA guy who bashes builds and we all test the game as often as is reasonable.  By the time Microsoft gets a build, we're reasonably sure it's going to work.

Jesus Christ, that is unbelievably retarded! - lwf
#133 by Greg
2006-05-21 18:16:20
Don't forget to add that developers should be unit testing their shit as much as possible before dropping it in a build anyway. But that's the common sense.

こんにちは
#134 by schnee
2006-05-21 18:49:36
david@snowdesign.com http://www.snowdesign.com
This is not true, at least not for us.

I'm so, so sorry.

#135 by bishop
2006-05-21 19:03:44
http://www.darkintellect.com/00FF00/
I sure hope Quake Wars has pants stealing technology.
#136 by Jibble
2006-05-21 19:11:26
#124 Shadarr
Damn, I was hoping Ron Howard would be able to syphon off the shitty writing, leaving only the story behind.  Ah well, it's not like I go to movies anyway.

Shitty writing is the biggest problem with the movie, too. When it's so bad that not even Hanks and Tautou can make it sound good, you know you fucked it up. Plus, the scene where Langdon and Teabing are arguing about grail lore is such blatant pandering to the Christian base that it's insulting to everyone. Every time Teabing says something controversial, Langdon pipes in with "THAT'S NEVER BEEN PROVEN!" or "ACCORDING TO SOME SOURCES!"

I know it's Ron Howard, but grow some balls, man.

Lady, people aren't chocolates. But you know what they are, mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.

Blog. 217 lbs.  37 to go.
#137 by Warren Marshall
2006-05-21 19:23:10
http://www.wantonhubris.com/
Don't forget to add that developers should be unit testing their shit as much as possible before dropping it in a build anyway. But that's the common sense.

Out and out coding mistakes are generally never the problem.  It's when that code interacts with one of a thousand different combinations of art assets and player inputs that it breaks.

Jesus Christ, that is unbelievably retarded! - lwf
#138 by Wudi
2006-05-21 19:26:42
Breaks it? It being what...that code with no mistakes?

pWned!

Zep--

Matt Davis: If you had kids you'd learn to tune out the screaming baby and carry on watching TV as normal.
#139 by yotsuya
2006-05-21 19:34:10
Plus, the scene where Langdon and Teabing are arguing about grail lore is such blatant pandering to the Christian base that it's insulting to everyone. Every time Teabing says something controversial, Langdon pipes in with "THAT'S NEVER BEEN PROVEN!" or "ACCORDING TO SOME SOURCES!"

I know it's Ron Howard, but grow some balls, man.

I didn't think Langdon's arguing was that bad. He just sounded like someone who didn't fully believe everything his colleague was saying. Kinda like here.

Granted, I haven't read the book, so I don't know if that was your point of reference.

"It's only make-believe until it becomes flim-flam."
#140 by Caryn
2006-05-21 19:40:31
carynlaw@pacbell.net http://www.hellchick.net
that better be cool, woman!

I'll write that on the white board so we don't miss it. Just for you.

LPMiller: "dunno, I've done some damn amazing things pantless."
cinq0: "This is true. The last time he went pantless, he populated the Eastern Seaboard."
#141 by LPMiller
2006-05-21 19:53:04
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
well alright then.

See, you people just have to ask for this shit up front.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
#142 by bishop
2006-05-21 19:57:30
http://www.darkintellect.com/00FF00/
(un)interesting social commentary (that probably belongs in a blog, but I don't have one)
 
A friend of mine graduated recently and we threw a little get together sort of reunion shindig. During the course of our adventures we came across a playground of sorts.
 
Now, there tends to be a bit of writing in various playgrounds but this stuff was so totally wrong for a playground that it is worth mentioning. Of course you had your usual "this person and that person and this other person BEST FRIENDS FOREVER!!!ONEONE" sort of stuff but then there was "my soul is gone" and "i am ready jesus" and a whole bunch of other things that make me wonder.
 
Who the fuck is writing this stuff? It was like the emo goth playground where everyone hangs around lamenting their sorrows, what with all the nonsense scrawled upon the playsets.
 
Five or six ricers (possibly several duplicates, roaming up and down the same road for no particular reason) drove by frequently and soon a gaggle of people wandered over to the playground and as they approached en masse (complete with paper-bagged alcohol of various sorts) they asked us if they could hang at the playground.
 
I don't get that. Is this some sort of territorial mad-maxian world where merely being at the playground constitutes some form of ownership? If so, wouldn't they have strict claim over it by virtue of living across the street, as opposed to us random fuckos just wandering by?
 
At any rate, the two groups kind of mingled separately until we decided that we'd be better off climbing this awesome looking rock structure a ways back, so we headed back.
 
I did make a funny when the only car that we had seen so far that wasn't a weak riced out honda was at a stop at the intersection just ahead. It was some old 80's looking model truck and I mentioned something along the lines of "hey, I wonder if that truck is a ricer too, seeing as that's all we've heard / seen going by in the past half hour."
 
No sooner had I finished the sentence when the truck roared forth with a whimpy whine, ricing its way out into the streets beyond!
#143 by LPMiller
2006-05-21 23:52:01
lpmiller@gotapex.com http://www.gotapex.com
Your story requires a bird of some sort.

"Testiculos habet et bene pendentes" — "He has testicles, and they dangle nicely."
#144 by Wudi
2006-05-22 00:13:19
and less faggy whining.

Zep--

Matt Davis: If you had kids you'd learn to tune out the screaming baby and carry on watching TV as normal.
#145 by None-1a
2006-05-22 00:13:58
also some kind of point would be nice.
#146 by Wudi
2006-05-22 00:16:33
Also, a group of fags and fag sympathizers hanging out at the playground? HELLO CHILD MOLESTERS!

Zep--

Matt Davis: If you had kids you'd learn to tune out the screaming baby and carry on watching TV as normal.
#147 by bishop
2006-05-22 00:24:59
http://www.darkintellect.com/00FF00/
So I'm finally getting rid of all my pc game boxes. I'm putting them all across the floor in the empty room and will be taking pictures to commemorate the event.
#148 by Shadarr
2006-05-22 00:28:24
shadarr@yahoo.com http://digital-luddite.com
I used to hoard PC boxes, until I had to move.  Then I separated out the manuals and jewel cases and recycled all the boxes.  There was no memorial.

These days, anything other than a DVD case gets recycled as soon as I get the game home.  One time I had to dig through my blue box to find the packaging for a game that wouldn't run.
#149 by anaqer
2006-05-22 00:33:37
blue box...?

will work for hate
#150 by Wudi
2006-05-22 00:38:52
blue box, Special colored boxes they use for recycling here in the states (and elsewhere), anamontipiea.

Zep--

Matt Davis: If you had kids you'd learn to tune out the screaming baby and carry on watching TV as normal.
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