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The Save Anywhere of the Future?
June 6th 2005, 17:19 CEST by Hugin The videogame industry has come a long way since the original Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM, and Quake. But it is still clearly learning how to explore and exploit the gameplay implications of 3 dimensional space. What I'm wondering is, is the next fundamental axis of gameplay going to be time? Max Payne (nee The Matrix) gave us bullet time. Prince of Persia allowed for the limited rewinding of events. The upcoming Sega combat racer Full Auto allows for a somewhat more expansive rewinding of time as well. And the gameplay of Timeshift seems to revolve entirely around the manipulation of time, speeding up, slowing down, reversing, and freezing. But instead of it being the twist or feature or gimmick of specific games, could this ability to control time in games slowly become a fairly standard feature, allowing players the ability to control and edit their play experiences as routinely as cheat codes and creative use of saves do now? Will developers ever feel comfortable giving players that much agency, given the impact time control could have on linearity, event scripting, environment destruction, player death, the sheer idea of cause and effect itself? Will players come to expect to be able to control their position in a game's temporal space as much as they expect to be able to control their position in the game's physical space? Will a game that unspools in unmodifiable linear time be as unthinkable (or as idiosyncratically ultra-hardcore oriented) as a current game with no ability to save? |
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Topic: The Save Anywhere of the Future?
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Re: Hugin's Game It is a great idea, but it has been done to a degree. Games like Hidden and Dangerous or Commandos offer that sort of "working as a team and hopping between different parts of the team seamlessly" experience. Ditto for tons of turn-based games like X-Com etc. And while they don't offer you that Groundhog day business of involving synchronisity, other games like TimeSplitters 2 have. Finally, The Last Express has exactly the kind of rewinding and TiVo style mechanics that you are all talking about. Some other early IF games probably featured some of the stuff Hugin talks about too (ie you taking part of one half of a conversation now, only to perform the other half later, or dropping an item in a room which explains how it got there for you to pick up in the beginning, etc.) It is less common in modern games, but still not uncommon - Day of the Tentacle for example did this a lot). Another game like that is The Journeyman Project series. Also Zelda etc. |
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I miss those games, and I want them with todays graphics. Now please-- get to work! |
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#50 Warren Marshall This discussion reminds me of a game called "The Sting". You had to plan robberies and once planned, you could hit the "play" button and see them carried out. If a guard saw you or something went wrong, you could rewind to that spot in the plan and try something else. Yeah I remember that game too. It was really awful. There a TON of games that use that mechanic, but they are really TBS in a sense ala X-Com/LSN, just disguised as realtime, so I didn't bother listing a bunch of them as examples. |
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ARRESTING NEW ARRIVAL: Comedian-magician Penn Jillette and his wife had a baby girl on Friday. The baby’s name is, and we're not making this up, Moxie CrimeFighter. When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
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The question is .. When your second self dies, do you then unlock a 3rd self? So you go kill the snipers, and die from say a trapline that can only be disabled from this other spot. This starts to take on the dementions of that game Warren mentioned, or you would have to limit how many times you can "save yourself". If you elminated the ultimate number of saves, you then have the "where should we save again" routine. I will think on that. |
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LPmiller-- Heard It! I hate my boyfriend and his Fark viewing! |
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Timesplitters 2 was such a shitty, boring game. こんにちは
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Ugh. I'd definitely want it to be better than the Jouneyman Project games. But yes, it's totally a split team objective thing just with one person as the team, and with a different framing device. No argument there. |
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I think the core solution to the argument of death is to turn it in to a gameplay device, a la Prey E3 2005 video. Videogames! Why waste good technology on science and medicine?
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#61 LPMiller ARRESTING NEW ARRIVAL: Comedian-magician Penn Jillette and his wife had a baby girl on Friday. The baby’s name is, and we're not making this up, Moxie CrimeFighter. Oh, man. As much as I love Penn, you have to be one mean bastard to name your kid something like that. "Every sect as far as reason will help them, gladly use it; when it fails them, they cry out it is a matter of faith, and beyond reason." --John Locke
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He's not mean till he forces the kid to wear a cape and mask all the time. Videogames! Why waste good technology on science and medicine?
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Yeah, I'm assuming some kind of Groundhog Day meets Quantum Leap-ish story framing the whole that that posits that dying "resets" you more than anything else. |
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Hey, maybe he's got an underground training facility and a battlesuit all ready for the kid. I can see him now, sitting at home, thinking "Screw this ranting about the stupidity and evil in the world. I'll just raise a little psychopath to kill the stupid and evil." |
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Hugin did you read the TimeSplitters link? |
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I read it. I never played the Timesplitters games, but now I might, just to see how its implemented. If there can be a million Space Marines Fighting Alien Bugs games, and a million WW2 games, I feel the market is ripe for a million time hopping games. |
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Other stupid names for celebrities' children include Pilot Inspektor (yes, with a 'k' since it wasn't stupid enough already) thanks to Jason Lee, Apple, thanks to Gwyneth Paltrow and even Brooklyn curtesy of Posh Spice (I don't remeber her real name). I SAID PURPLE, BITCH!
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Brooklyn and Apple are pull-off-able, particularly if the girls turn out hot. Moxie CrimeFighter and Pilot Inspektor are guaranteed to have all manner of psychiatric problems. I hate people who are so smug with their cleverness and uniqueness that they saddle their kids with names that might as well be "Why Doesn't Someone Give Me a Wedgie?" I didn't ask for a shrink, that must've been somebody else. Also, that pudding isn't mine. Also, I'm wearing this suit today because I had a very important meeting this morning. And I don't have a crying problem.
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YF, my daughter's name is Zoe Danger. i believe Moxie CrimeFighter will be her do-gooding nemesis. You've already tried the iPod, that smoothly transitions into trying the Mac Mini, and before you know it you're married to a man. Apple's master plan to make everything stylish wins. -- ChunkStyle
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Brooklyn, Apple, Moxie, Zoe. Stripper names, all of 'em. Gawd wuz a dream of good gubmint.
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Brooklyn Beckham is, you know, a boy. I have a hard time accepting that anyone could achieve this miraculously high level of stupidity. - Caryn
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#75 Leslie Nassar YF, my daughter's name is Zoe Danger. i believe Moxie CrimeFighter will be her do-gooding nemesis. You're a cruel, heartless man. But as long as she doesn't divulge her middle name to her classmates, she should escape most ridicule. "Every sect as far as reason will help them, gladly use it; when it fails them, they cry out it is a matter of faith, and beyond reason." --John Locke
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You mean a fag, (or puff in your culture). |
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This is why children should be assigned GUIDs. Actually, if I had a daughter I'd name her Candy PoleRider. "I spent a year in Vancouver; now I have to kill a hooker and feed her to the pigs just to get going in the mornings." - Leslie Nassar
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I was talking to a co-worker the other day about his soon to be born daughter. "Have you picked a name yet?" "My wife did ... Zoe." *awkward pause* "Stripper?" "Yeah, I know, but it's out of my hands..." |
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haha, that's great! i wish i worked in an environment that fostered pithy conversations, but sadly i must content myself with wearing headphones and placing mental speech bubbles above my co-worker's heads. You've already tried the iPod, that smoothly transitions into trying the Mac Mini, and before you know it you're married to a man. Apple's master plan to make everything stylish wins. -- ChunkStyle
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Did you name her that so she could say "Danger's my middle name." and be completely truthful about it? こんにちは
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I have no problem with Zoe. |
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Moxie is a cute name. Game Developers: Don't forget the zombie monkeys.
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Moxie and Zoe are fine names. 'Danger' is kinda silly, and 'CrimeFighter' is fucking lame. |
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Brooklyn Beckham is, you know, a boy. I bow before your superior knowledge of celebrity tabloid information. I didn't ask for a shrink, that must've been somebody else. Also, that pudding isn't mine. Also, I'm wearing this suit today because I had a very important meeting this morning. And I don't have a crying problem.
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From Law.com(http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1117616720269): Computer game publisher Michael Wilson sued publishing giant Random House Inc. on May 10, alleging that statements made about him in a book about two gaming industry gurus are false and have damaged his reputation… At issue in Wilson v. Random House Inc., filed in U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks' court, are statements that Random House published in "Masters of Doom: How Two Guys Created an Empire and Transformed Pop Culture," written by David Kushner… Wilson alleges in the complaint that Random House defamed him when it published statements in the book that, while he was at Ion Storm, "without the owner's knowledge, Wilson had borrowed company money to buy a new BMW." …Wilson says Ion Storm's chief operating officer was aware of the loan and that the company's chief financial officer signed the loan documents… "There's nothing they could have possibly said that could be more damaging," Wilson says in an interview, noting that he's trying to raise money for a new video game publishing company, Gamecock Media Group. "This is an industry publication read almost exclusively by my peers in the industry," he says…Wilson also alleges that he sustained special damages as a result of being harmed in his business interests, in his reputation and standing in the community and "has suffered shame, humiliation and mental anguish." The lawsuit seeks damages of fifty million dollars. When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
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SEEN IT. I didn't ask for a shrink, that must've been somebody else. Also, that pudding isn't mine. Also, I'm wearing this suit today because I had a very important meeting this morning. And I don't have a crying problem.
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DON'T CARE. When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
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Weren't you here for the whole "Gamecock" discussion? "I spent a year in Vancouver; now I have to kill a hooker and feed her to the pigs just to get going in the mornings." - Leslie Nassar
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Linked here, not five days ago. |
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MOTION TO DISMISS'D IT |
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SUSTAINED IT |
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IT IS SO ORDERED MP3 Of The Week: Charles Wright - Express Yourself.mp3 (?)
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SCROLLWHEELED IT "Every sect as far as reason will help them, gladly use it; when it fails them, they cry out it is a matter of faith, and beyond reason." --John Locke
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YAY |
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THE MONKEY HAS LANDED! Zep-- Inverted Mouse 4 Life, YO!
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For some reason that design makes me think of the lost vikings and an old amiga game who's name escapes me but the view window could be split into quarters, 1 for each active character. The characters varied and you use them to open areas for other characters, stack things, pull boxes, blow things up. Another, slightly later game, Liberation allowed you to do something similar but it was 'true' 3d rather than pseudo 3d, using shaded polygons instead of uhm.. well.. WADS (fucked if I know the right term for doom/duke nukem style 3d). Perhaps set it up with a timeline, insertion point, events, conclusion, you want your team to achieve the conclusion, you enter at insertion, but you can 'jaunt' (bonus points if you get that reference) one your team/one ofyour selves into the situation somewhere along the timeline. Achieving goals within the timeline grants you more/more accurate jaunts, but the goals are not necessarily sequential or obvious. Example you need to get into a building, avoid the security, get into a specific office to place a mis-information folder into a safe in an executives office. The safe is protected by a security system which is several floors below, the lifts go offline at a certain time, guards patrol the floors, the stairwells are locked down also. To prevent tripping security you 'arrive' in the parking basement and due to the thickness of the walls, your jaunts can only be say 100 feet (or 10 seconds) in any direction. Think along the lines of splinter cell or hitman or even deus ex for alternatives. You could try and work through the air conditioning and get close enough to jaunt into the office then deal with the securitythere. you could work across thebuilding and get into the security, turn off security for that room and turn on one lift, bring it to theparking area, use another 'team' and drop a 'jaunt target' into the lift, move the lift back up and jaunt to the marker (bypassing the time/distance limit of unguided jaunts), then work your waypast the guards on that floor, sneaking or brawling or jaunt ambushes, enter theroom, drop the file, leave. Or perhaps you prefer the assault approach, jaunt to the generators, blow them to fuck, smash your way into the stairs, get to the floor youwant, kill the guards, blow open the door, trash the room, leave the folder where it looks like its part of the mess, brawl your way out. definitely a cracking good idea Hugin ! |
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You 'grant' or 'deny' motions. You 'sustain' or 'overrule' objections. You 'affirm' or 'reverse' a decision on appeal. |
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APPEALED IT! |
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#99 Ds_ For some reason that design makes me think of the lost vikings and an old amiga game who's name escapes me but the view window could be split into quarters, 1 for each active character. Hired Guns, I believe. "Every sect as far as reason will help them, gladly use it; when it fails them, they cry out it is a matter of faith, and beyond reason." --John Locke
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Jeesh man don't be so anal about our wordusage, what are you, a lawyer? ..badadadadum pttsshh! I'm slowly warming up to this game idea that's being tossed around. Definitely all for a proper timetraveling-esque setting, and the current ideas sounds.. quite interesting. "You can get her in any color so long as it's double D and naked." - Hugin
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Answer STAYED! Zep-- Inverted Mouse 4 Life, YO!
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Ergo, thats the very game ! Liberation was in much the same mold as it, only it was truly a sequel to Captive. *screen goes all wooshy wooshy as we enter the nostalgia zone* |
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I loved Captive for a while, but it got very repetetive. I never played the sequel. "Every sect as far as reason will help them, gladly use it; when it fails them, they cry out it is a matter of faith, and beyond reason." --John Locke
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Space Hulk was the best splitscreen real-time team-controlling game. |
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