|
| T O P I C | |
|
The Save Anywhere of the Future?
June 6th 2005, 17:19 CEST by Hugin The videogame industry has come a long way since the original Wolfenstein 3D, DOOM, and Quake. But it is still clearly learning how to explore and exploit the gameplay implications of 3 dimensional space. What I'm wondering is, is the next fundamental axis of gameplay going to be time? Max Payne (nee The Matrix) gave us bullet time. Prince of Persia allowed for the limited rewinding of events. The upcoming Sega combat racer Full Auto allows for a somewhat more expansive rewinding of time as well. And the gameplay of Timeshift seems to revolve entirely around the manipulation of time, speeding up, slowing down, reversing, and freezing. But instead of it being the twist or feature or gimmick of specific games, could this ability to control time in games slowly become a fairly standard feature, allowing players the ability to control and edit their play experiences as routinely as cheat codes and creative use of saves do now? Will developers ever feel comfortable giving players that much agency, given the impact time control could have on linearity, event scripting, environment destruction, player death, the sheer idea of cause and effect itself? Will players come to expect to be able to control their position in a game's temporal space as much as they expect to be able to control their position in the game's physical space? Will a game that unspools in unmodifiable linear time be as unthinkable (or as idiosyncratically ultra-hardcore oriented) as a current game with no ability to save? |
| C O M M E N T S |
|
Home »
Topic: The Save Anywhere of the Future?
|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»| |
|
Hugin, I want that game. Make it! |
|
I too would like to play Hugin's game, but he needs to fix some bits of this. This stuck out as a sore thumb to me: Sniped to death in a level? Come back and as your 2nd self, knife the snipers. This sounds like trial and error game play, which I hate, Hate, HATE. Now if there was an extensive mission briefing so you knew exactly what to do, then it would be fun. Maybe tiered goals, ala Thief or something, so that at easy you try to get X, but when it's hard you try to get x, y, and z. This would encourage players to replay the level figuring it out without that frustration of "Bzzt, try again from the beginning." |
|
That's why it works with games like Sands of Time, or even that crappy platformer on the Xbox. The time mechanisms are built into the core gameplay, they aren't really bolted on with no relevance. And my stance on save anywhere is a game that features it is typically more difficult if you don't use it frequently. The concept itself is fine. But give me the ability to not have to min/max everything I do just to complete a level! こんにちは
|
|
Sure Cheesy. I have no objection to at least some, if not most of the mission goals being laid out like that. "You have to get through this corridor. And you have to take out the snipers guarding the corridor. So 1st to the door, and 2nd goes to the upper catwalk." Or whatever. I'd like to think that some failures could be written well enough to not be frustrating, as the player would feel empowered by the process of fixing it and saving themsevles. But I totally understand the trial and error feeling being a pitfall to avoid. |
|
Yeah, I don't want every game to require me to rewind to win it. Replayability is one thing, redoing parts I've already done will grow old real fast. "Palpatine - Helps me Anakin, council r skript kiddies !" - Ds
|
|
You know, Tivo abilities during the game would have to be something that was actually important to game, not just a player safety net. I mean, if you already have save anywhere, you don't need the net. On the other hand, tivo AFTER you have completed a game, that would be something, especially with games that have multiple paths. But...i dunno. I can see it being fun, and I can see it stealing my fun, so I dunno. When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
|
|
I want Hugins game , NOW! |
|
I think you could run Hugin's idea a lot of ways (I like it, btw). One way would be to have each level playable twice. First you get a chance to run a scout unit through it (flying drone, whatever) to see what you might need. If you want, you can skip this and just have your objectives tossed at you. When you get pinned in a tight spot, you can put in a mechanic that allows you to call for help. Perhaps just a beeper system that lets you page your alternate self to come back in time to help you. Really digging this concept, though it would be insanely complex in practice. Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
222 lbs. 42 to go. |
|
Leave it all complicated, Like stated. Yea I ran into the snipers, but to knife the snipers I would have to have seen that door to the left that I didn't know could be opened. That leads to a whole 2nd self new area kinda thing that allows me to save myself from the snipers. I would say freeze on moment before death, like a snapshot. Your view turns in place to find the area that your "death" came from. This could bring a whole knew annoying but to me ultimatly fun level to games like Myst/Syberia so on. |
|
Well, I all I need is an artist, and some programmers, and a sound guy and.... |
|
I'll do PR! Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
222 lbs. 42 to go. |
|
There's always the Harry Potter approach to it if you want to go for replayability. You play through the entire game and there's odd stuff happening. Some mysterious person is always saving you from certain doom by doing crazy shit (acrobatics, cool-ass weapons, etc.). Build on that being something you wish you could do, then the "ending" of the game is you being sent back in time to save yourself. Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
222 lbs. 42 to go. |
|
We'll see more of this sort of thing as a cool gimmick games use, but it won't be standard, nor should it be. I didn't ask for a shrink, that must've been somebody else. Also, that pudding isn't mine. Also, I'm wearing this suit today because I had a very important meeting this morning. And I don't have a crying problem.
|
|
#25 CheesyPoof This sounds like trial and error game play, which I hate, Hate, HATE. It doesn't sound like trial and error at all to me because the key to Hugin's idea is that these alternative selves are playing a completely different perspective of the game, almost a completely different mission, albeit ones that tie into each other. If you're the guy doing one thing who gets sniped -- say, sneaking through a building -- and you decide to take control of your second self and sneak up on the snipers to take them out because they got your first self, that's a completely different mission and branch. Trial and error gameplay in this example would prevent you from taking control of what is essentially a different character in a different place in the game, and instead it would force your first self, the guy sneaking through a building -- to find an alternate route or take out the snipers himself. Current novel status: 8500 words
"3D Jesus by my bedside that talks to me when it's late at night." |
|
Well, I all I need is an artist, and some programmers, and a sound guy and.... I'll do the web site and run the forums! |
|
Better get those flaming skull animated gifs ready for the front page. I have a hard time accepting that anyone could achieve this miraculously high level of stupidity. - Caryn
|
|
My "guest book" script is almost finished downloading... |
|
Now that Charles isn't crunching on Pariah, maybe he'll build you guys a community based document management system from scratch so you can upload all the concept sketches and ideamen documentation for the team to share. I didn't ask for a shrink, that must've been somebody else. Also, that pudding isn't mine. Also, I'm wearing this suit today because I had a very important meeting this morning. And I don't have a crying problem.
|
|
Well, there you go. OSX on Intel. They've been compiling it on x86 for five years, just in case. And just to rub it in, the last keynotes have been on x86... Just those three words, said and meant. I love you. They were quite hopeless. He said it as he might have said, I have cancer.
|
|
One s too many. Just those three words, said and meant. I love you. They were quite hopeless. He said it as he might have said, I have cancer.
|
|
Sure, but you need to pay my rent. When my paypal donations reach $70000, I'll guarantee you a year of work. Videogames! Why waste good technology on science and medicine?
|
|
Since that's $70000 Canadian, we only need to raise abut $200 here guys. We can do this! |
|
No, that was $70000 USD. Paypal doesn't work in $CDN. Also: Well, there you go. OSX on Intel. They've been compiling it on x86 for five years, just in case. And just to rub it in, the last keynotes have been on x86... Links? Videogames! Why waste good technology on science and medicine?
|
|
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2005/jun/06intel.html Just those three words, said and meant. I love you. They were quite hopeless. He said it as he might have said, I have cancer.
|
|
I could see it being kind of fun to play multiple characters at the same time, but the controlling time thing seems like a substitute for save-reloading your way through a level, which isn't fun anyway. Much better to create games where you don't have to replay the same thing multiple times than to change the way you're going back to replay it. "I spent a year in Vancouver; now I have to kill a hooker and feed her to the pigs just to get going in the mornings." - Leslie Nassar
|
|
I think the rewind-as-a-save function is a great idea, personally. As with save anywhere, just don't use it if you don't like it. I have a hard time accepting that anyone could achieve this miraculously high level of stupidity. - Caryn
|
|
This discussion reminds me of a game called "The Sting". You had to plan robberies and once planned, you could hit the "play" button and see them carried out. If a guard saw you or something went wrong, you could rewind to that spot in the plan and try something else. |
|
As with save anywhere, just don't use it if you don't like it. Uh huh. The only thing worse than a game that requires you to save all the time is a game that requires saving all the time but doesn't let you. I'm looking at you, Medal of Honor. "I spent a year in Vancouver; now I have to kill a hooker and feed her to the pigs just to get going in the mornings." - Leslie Nassar
|
|
Well, it's obviously shouldn't be a crutch for poor design. I can't imagine any system making the MoH sniper village even playable, let alone actually fun. I have a hard time accepting that anyone could achieve this miraculously high level of stupidity. - Caryn
|
|
I wouldn't see it as "reversing the same area" I would start at a place so far "away" from my potential death.. reversed exactly along my path. Maybe I can fast forward it back and forward from that "death" point.. the world looking a bit greyed out during travel. I then can stop and "materialize" anywhere in my journey along that one timeline. This would allow me to quickly (if I payed attention) find the divergent path, or even have certian things only viewable in the "timeline mode", and then I can go to the UNEXPLORED AREA and kill the snipers. Upon killing of the snipers, that previous timeline is erased so to speak(still there for reversal from the next death minus the death we erased) and we are standing where we died in "forward" time. So help me, If I could model I would be all over this. I can't. I can't code either. must learn! |
|
Wyst You sound like a fabulous Idea Man. You're on the team! |
|
you people need to put in more hours. Work smarter, and harder. Anyone caught below a 60 hour workweek gets a wedgie and a night out on the balcony. Just those three words, said and meant. I love you. They were quite hopeless. He said it as he might have said, I have cancer.
|
|
lol I do try. |
|
Balcony? Who can afford that. I am used to being put out with the trash in the morning, along with most my ideas. |
|
Re: Hugin's Game It is a great idea, but it has been done to a degree. Games like Hidden and Dangerous or Commandos offer that sort of "working as a team and hopping between different parts of the team seamlessly" experience. Ditto for tons of turn-based games like X-Com etc. And while they don't offer you that Groundhog day business of involving synchronisity, other games like TimeSplitters 2 have. Finally, The Last Express has exactly the kind of rewinding and TiVo style mechanics that you are all talking about. Some other early IF games probably featured some of the stuff Hugin talks about too (ie you taking part of one half of a conversation now, only to perform the other half later, or dropping an item in a room which explains how it got there for you to pick up in the beginning, etc.) It is less common in modern games, but still not uncommon - Day of the Tentacle for example did this a lot). Another game like that is The Journeyman Project series. Also Zelda etc. |
|
I miss those games, and I want them with todays graphics. Now please-- get to work! |
|
#50 Warren Marshall This discussion reminds me of a game called "The Sting". You had to plan robberies and once planned, you could hit the "play" button and see them carried out. If a guard saw you or something went wrong, you could rewind to that spot in the plan and try something else. Yeah I remember that game too. It was really awful. There a TON of games that use that mechanic, but they are really TBS in a sense ala X-Com/LSN, just disguised as realtime, so I didn't bother listing a bunch of them as examples. |
|
ARRESTING NEW ARRIVAL: Comedian-magician Penn Jillette and his wife had a baby girl on Friday. The baby’s name is, and we're not making this up, Moxie CrimeFighter. When LP says he's bringing Armageddon, he brings fucking Armageddon. - Caryn, 6/01/2004
|
|
The question is .. When your second self dies, do you then unlock a 3rd self? So you go kill the snipers, and die from say a trapline that can only be disabled from this other spot. This starts to take on the dementions of that game Warren mentioned, or you would have to limit how many times you can "save yourself". If you elminated the ultimate number of saves, you then have the "where should we save again" routine. I will think on that. |
|
LPmiller-- Heard It! I hate my boyfriend and his Fark viewing! |
|
Timesplitters 2 was such a shitty, boring game. こんにちは
|
|
Ugh. I'd definitely want it to be better than the Jouneyman Project games. But yes, it's totally a split team objective thing just with one person as the team, and with a different framing device. No argument there. |
|
I think the core solution to the argument of death is to turn it in to a gameplay device, a la Prey E3 2005 video. Videogames! Why waste good technology on science and medicine?
|
|
#61 LPMiller ARRESTING NEW ARRIVAL: Comedian-magician Penn Jillette and his wife had a baby girl on Friday. The baby’s name is, and we're not making this up, Moxie CrimeFighter. Oh, man. As much as I love Penn, you have to be one mean bastard to name your kid something like that. "Every sect as far as reason will help them, gladly use it; when it fails them, they cry out it is a matter of faith, and beyond reason." --John Locke
DVDs |
|
He's not mean till he forces the kid to wear a cape and mask all the time. Videogames! Why waste good technology on science and medicine?
|
|
Yeah, I'm assuming some kind of Groundhog Day meets Quantum Leap-ish story framing the whole that that posits that dying "resets" you more than anything else. |
|
Hey, maybe he's got an underground training facility and a battlesuit all ready for the kid. I can see him now, sitting at home, thinking "Screw this ranting about the stupidity and evil in the world. I'll just raise a little psychopath to kill the stupid and evil." |
|
Hugin did you read the TimeSplitters link? |
|
I read it. I never played the Timesplitters games, but now I might, just to see how its implemented. If there can be a million Space Marines Fighting Alien Bugs games, and a million WW2 games, I feel the market is ripe for a million time hopping games. |
|
Other stupid names for celebrities' children include Pilot Inspektor (yes, with a 'k' since it wasn't stupid enough already) thanks to Jason Lee, Apple, thanks to Gwyneth Paltrow and even Brooklyn curtesy of Posh Spice (I don't remeber her real name). I SAID PURPLE, BITCH!
|
| C O M M E N T S |
|
Home »
Topic: The Save Anywhere of the Future?
|«« - Previous Page - Next Page - »»| |
| P O S T A C O M M E N T |
|
|
| C R A P T A G S | ||||||||
|
|
| There are currently 0 people browsing this site. [Details] |
Powered by blah 0.9.1-dev •
PlanetCrap is © 1997-2035 Hendrik "Morn" Mans
|