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Eł 2005
May 7th 2005, 13:30 CEST by Squeaky The games, the boothbabes, the noise! Just to keep it all in one place. |
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Topic: Eł 2005
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Jeet was onto something when he said character's movements should be indicitave of their, er, character. All the great animators created walkcycles that reflected the subjects personality. If they can get better motion cap actors to interpret that level of interaction and movement great; bottom line is, the industry, as a whole, sucks at animating. FOR THE LOVE OF GOT MAKE IT STOP!
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As for the artistic cock blocking you refer to ... I don't see it. If your game has humanoid characters in a recognizable environment, they're going to need to move like humanoids would. For other types of creatures, I don't see any such limitations being imposed. Do you have examples? As I said, if your game takes place in reality and you're goal is to mimick the real world, then yes - mocap is a good solution. I thought I was pretty clear on that. However, in your games where humans move around at blistering speed and jump/double-jump amazing heights alongside aliens and robots, all through non-real environments such as alien landscapes and space stations and the like, are we really still talking about reality? If even your human models are capable of moving in non-realistic ways, then the superiority of mocap starts to decline. It will work just fine, there's no argument there, but I'm suggesting that it would be much better if there were more of an interpretation of reality for the character animations in much the same way as the rest of the game is an interpretaion (and exaggeration) of reality. All that said, since there's really little to no story in UT and UC, and the models are little more than moving targets, then my whole idea of artistic expression really doesn't hold a lot of water in this specific example. As long as the game is fun to run around and shoot in, then nobody is really going to care how much the targets either reflect or interpret reality. Assuming we are speaking in a larger context, however, applying to the term "games" in a general, broad-stroke sense, then going beyond multiplayer first person shooters and into the other genres, such as platformers, rpgs, adventures, etc...where story and character development are very important parts of the game, then what I'm saying starts to have more relevance. Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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That was your best? No. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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Well, I clearly ASKED for your best. Why must you disappoint me so? Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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I'm returning the favor. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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Zing? Zong! Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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or, more appropriately, zzZzzzzZzzzZing? zZzzzzzzZzzzzzzzzwha? Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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Keep swinging. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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LPMiller (#48): yeah monty, I can't really contribute to the conversation either. Contributing to the conversation is overrated. |
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Here we go again. "So they don't even want to assassinate Comrade Bastya...? Am I worth shit now?!"
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And you shut your pie-hole, aknacker. |
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LEAVING FOREVER... BACK! "So they don't even want to assassinate Comrade Bastya...? Am I worth shit now?!"
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I never picked up the bat, slugger. Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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So, woot.com. Discuss. |
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This was an interesting discussion until Warren and Jeet starting dick-waving. "I work with animators" "Yeah? Well I've read books!!" I don't need a platter I'll take it straight from the shelf
Give it to me raw I'll take it home and cook it myself |
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I've purchased things from them before. I've entered a few of their extracurricular, weekend contests and won. Nothing bad to say about them. FOR THE LOVE OF GOT MAKE IT STOP!
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Personally I think game models cutting through scenery/other models is much more of an illusion-breaker than the state of their animation. It'd also be prudent to point out that animating stuff for TV is somewhat different to in games. Generally in games the animation can potentially be viewed from any angle, it may take place in any of a thousand surroundings and, in the end, it's quite likely that spending a couple of extra months getting the "reloading while running" animation perfect rather than just good enough isn't the best use of limited development time. Anyway, I never noticed animation lagging behind any of the other aspects so whatchooalltalkin'bout? Guest MP3OTW: Bomb The Bass - Bug Powder Dust.mp3 (Thanks Deadlock!)
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You're not watching it right. FOR THE LOVE OF GOT MAKE IT STOP!
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This was an interesting discussion until Warren and Jeet starting dick-waving. It got even better when deadlock threw in a pithy comment. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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Personally I think game models cutting through scenery/other models is much more of an illusion-breaker than the state of their animation. Along those same lines, I get very annoyed when bits of a character model clip into other bits of itself. I get even more annoyed when this happens with a model that doesn't change, by way of adding clothing/armor/whatever. It's either just laziness or a case of applying the same animation from one model to another with little care for the consequences. Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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#82 Warren Marshall It got even better when deadlock threw in a pithy comment. Why thank you. I don't need a platter I'll take it straight from the shelf
Give it to me raw I'll take it home and cook it myself |
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The Yankees looked like the Bad News Bears last night. It was sweet. |
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#13 Neale I wasn't being entirely serious - it's the way that games are going now. The enormous amount of work required for the assets is taking it out of the realm of the amateur developer. When you have to make a 2,000,000 polygon model in addition to the 6000 polygon model that you would usually use, it's really bumping up the requirements. I can make models in the thousands of polygons quite happily, but in the millions? Nuh-uh. But don't most low-poly models start out as a high-poly 3DS Max model anyway? It's not hard to create a good million-poly model, though you definitely need to put more time into detail. But besides that, imho the demand for more authenticity in models is what is causing the gap between pro game makers and amateurs. In the Half-Life era, it was pretty much accepted that models meant to represent humans, were pretty boxy and consisted of not so many polygons. Nowadays people want something that's recognizable as a human, not just approximate representations. Correctly modelling a human being is hard, proof being that even pro game makers haven't been getting humans right for longer than a couple of years. The only thing that could possibly make me less frightening, is if someone made three movies about my childhood, pointing out how much of a retarded, non-threatening pussy I used to be.
- Darth Vader |
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Well, there's a big difference between a million polygons consumed by using nurbs everywhere and a million polygons that are formed into meaningful shapes. Low poly modelling, from my experience, generally starts and ends as low poly. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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E3 things I'm curious about (oh my, ontopic!) - Alan Wake (despite the name pun, I must say it looks interesting) - New Zelda game for cube (maybe DS?) - Mario 128 (?) - Nintendo revolution (still don't know if they're going to show it) - New surprising stuff for my DS/Gamecube - Prey (why not, I want to see what they have to show) - Quake 4 (Idem, want to see what they've got for us) - Spore (interesting concept that i'm looking forward to check out more) - Shadow the hedgehog (because it has been a long time since I played a good sonic game/clone) I'd also like to see some things based on the UE3 tech. There might be more, but these are the first things that I can think of. |
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Er...how about the new Playstation and Xbox? I guess those aren't really very important. Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
227 lbs. 47 to go. |
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- New Zelda game for cube (maybe DS?) - Mario 128 (?) - Nintendo revolution (still don't know if they're going to show it) - New surprising stuff for my DS/Gamecube Yes, with a list like that it's obvious he should have mentioned XBOX2/PS3 as well... "So they don't even want to assassinate Comrade Bastya...? Am I worth shit now?!"
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The chances of me buying a PS3/Xbox 2 is very slim. Most of the console games that I like to play are mae by nintendo (mario, zelda, pikmin, etc). I don't play rpg's, shooters, racers, sport games etc on my tv. Games like GTA are nice, but I end up playing them on my pc a few months later. Also, most of the features for the other consoles are known, while the nintendo console has some buzz left with its rumoured stereoscopic 3D images. |
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is/are bleh |
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Because Nintendo is great and everyone else is not. "he runs like dumbass, and jumps like moron" - fallen_child, GameFAQs
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You see, BobJustBob understands. |
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I already said new xbox and games! Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore. -LP
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Or in short: I like consoles, but nintendo's console is the only one that can give me everything I want (ie. console games AND nintendo games). |
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#80 by Dumdeedum Personally I think game models cutting through scenery/other models is much more of an illusion-breaker than the state of their animation. That's just the surface of character/world interaction being the illusion-breaker. Run/walk animation cycles almost never match movement speed, wonky shadow work, or even 'correcting' the scenery problems with collision that's a few pixels away from the objects all give the apearance of skating rather then walking. I can't think of a whole lot of games that don't have nice looking animations when seen through a 3d program, but almost every one has some major issuse with those same animations when seen with in the game world. |
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I probably wont be picking up any next gen systems until at least one price drop, and there's a nice selection of great games to be had for cheap. |
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I agree with what you wrote. Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
227 lbs. 47 to go. |
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I thought Doom 3 had really impressive animations. Well almost, while the monsters were alive they moved really fluidly but the second they died it was as if they'd reverted to their clay form, had their feet superglued to the floor and then been pushed over. Unless of course you'd hit them with the rocket launcher in which case they reverted to their alternate form, expanded polystyrene, and went bouncing all over creation. Guest MP3OTW: Bomb The Bass - Bug Powder Dust.mp3 (Thanks Deadlock!)
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No wonder they made all demons burn away within half a sec. "So they don't even want to assassinate Comrade Bastya...? Am I worth shit now?!"
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That's something I miss in today's games: death animations. Regdoll deaths are nice and all, but it's a little annoying to shoot at a bad guy and the second his hit points reach zero he just turns to jelly. It'd be nice to combine a few death animations followed by the ragdoll, but I don't think I've played a game that does it. You know, have the guy clutch his belly or something traditional, then he goes to the jelly stage. Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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You use regedit to modify regdoll properties, you know. Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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The trouble with mixed rag doll/animated deaths is that you have to have a LOT of canned deaths for it to look good. Shot from the front, behind, left, right, above, below, shot in the head, chest, belly, knees, etc. You have to start things off looking realistic and then put the model into ragdoll mode. I agree that it would look nice, but I don't think the memory requirements make it an option just yet. Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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This whole 'mocap vs. animated' thing reminds me of stage acting. People who were good martial artists often had to be re-trained to do stage combat, because their movements were so precise and efficient that they were too hard to follow from the audience. Exaggerated sword swings, huge haymaker wind-ups, taking a beat or two more to recover from a blow, etc... all this had to be added in to 'work' on stage. It's like we took their mo-cap and tweaked it to fit the medium, like Warren was talking about. "A critic is someone who knows the way but can't drive the car." - Kenneth Tynan
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the best thing about jelly is the way it wiggles. You've already tried the iPod, that smoothly transitions into trying the Mac Mini, and before you know it you're married to a man. Apple's master plan to make everything stylish wins. -- ChunkStyle
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What booth is PONG going to be in? Zep-- Inverted Mouse 4 Life, YO!
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All of them. Well it beats going to the video store to rent the latest hardcore releases twice a week. - G-Man
227 lbs. 47 to go. |
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Bah, people just need to use some constraints on the ragdolls. Show some remaining nervous system activity. And isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway? I mean all you get is one trick, rational thinking. But when you're good and crazy... oohoohoohooo, the sky's the limit!
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My farts have ragdoll physics |
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Still talking about whatever it is this topic is about? YAWN. I didn't ask for a shrink, that must've been somebody else. Also, that pudding isn't mine. Also, I'm wearing this suit today because I had a very important meeting this morning. And I don't have a crying problem.
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For Jeet, from Boing Boing. Actually, the liberalism of the media - as a general thing - IS a major fallacy. What the media is, is a whore. -LP
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Cool! The wife and I have talked about using the various Disney parks as a means of visiting different areas. You know, head over to California for Disneyland, then Paris, followed by Tokyo and now Hong Kong. If they keep adding parks, we'll be jet-setters in no time! Of course, the idea is mainly to tour Europe and Asia more than it is to see Mickey, but he provides the motivation! Accipere quam facere praestat injuriam...
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